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A Fresh Look on Old Pacts : Part IFollow

#1 Oct 19 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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After having extensively tested most of the commonly used Blood Pacts, I turned towards the ones gathering dust. There were several gems out there which have some pretty amazing (unused) potential out there.

==================================

Healing Ruby

* Approximate formula if your level is less than or equal to 30:
HP Restored = 14 + Level + floor[TP/12.3]
* Approximate formula if your level is greater than 30:
HP Restored = 44 + 3*(Level-30) + floor[TP/12.3] * floor[Level*0.075 - 1]

One less than 30 is inaccurate, couldn't lower level below 30. Appears to add variable amounts of HP depending on TP/LEVEL.
Does NOT appear to be +X HP for every Y TP. See Wiki for testing.

==================================

Slowga

Bigclaw (base) Delay =
START: 9:07:41pm
END: 9:09:39pm
HITS: 30
Time taken: 118 seconds
3.93333 seconds/hit = ~4sec/hit
Delay 240

With Slowga....
START: 9:35:06pm
END: 9:36:40pm
HITS: 18
Time Taken = 94sec
5.2222 seconds/hit
Delay 313?

11hits
time=57sec = 5.18181818 seconds/hit

55:30
13 hits
56:38
time=68sec
5.23secs

About 5.2 seconds:
Delay = 312
Increase in delay = 73

Percentage Slow = 30% (!!!)

========================

Sleepga

Range = 8" (around Target)
Dark based.
Duration: 90 seconds.
Same tier rank as Sleepga.

=========================

Nightmare

Centered around Target.
Very small radius (4"?)
Darkness based.
Duration: 90 seconds, though often resisted down to 60 or 45 seconds.
Same tier as Sleepga.
Bio is 2hp/tick.
Additional DoTs WILL stack WITHOUT waking the monster, except those that deal "initial" damage, e.g. Bio/Dia/Helix
DoTs (including Bio) already on the monster will NOT wear off when applying Nightmare.

Implications
You can load up on DoTs (bio 2 included!) and then use Nightmare, the monster will sleep with an incredibly potent DoT on them.

==========================

Thunderspark

Appears to have no dINT cap. Formula is still in progress but appears to be along the lines of:

Damage = (275+dINT) * MAB/MDB

How TP interacts with this is still unknown, appears to be 3 damage / 8 tp(?)

Paralyze seems very strong, comparable to Paralyze II.

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#2 Oct 20 2009 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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i've been using Somnolence on Dea fights, the gravity sticked quite often, speeding up the kill.
dmg was about 200, not bad for 30mp "ward BP" besides Nether Blast.
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#3 Oct 20 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Additional DoTs WILL stack WITHOUT waking the monster, except those that deal "initial" damage, e.g. Bio/Dia/Helix


Well, I learned something today.
#4 Oct 20 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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Very neat info.

I'm not a summoner myself but it seems like alot of pre-70 blood pacts are often reguarded as weak and limited by most people. Which is far from the case for a large amount of them. Though there are those that are still lacking, most notably Earthen Ward and Noctoshield which used to serve as the standard of AoE Stoneskin and Phanlax simply because there was no other job who could use them in AoE form, until scholar came and shattered the standard. I would say that Earthen Ward and Noctoshield are due for a tune up in potency.

Fenrir's buffs and enfeebles probably serve as the best example of what ward pacts should be, as they're strong enough without being overly strong. (though highly dependent on moon phase)

When it comes to using rage pacts, most people see them as rather ineffective before 70. Although they have no lack in power (ignoring defense and level corralation), they're accuracy seems to be the greatest issue. Both physical and magical rage pacts pre-70 seem to suffer badly in the accuracy department when fighting anything of IT levels. To take an example, the celestral avatar bloodpact nukes, tier II and tier IV elemental magic, all possess the same base damage as their black magic counterparts and avatars gain the same MAB and similar INT as a Blm, but they're resist rate is through the roof on any substancial enemy.

I maybe just talking out my **** since I have little serious experience with summoners (don't hurt me), but these issues seem to be the pervailing ideas holding summoner back nowadays (especially in parties).
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#5 Oct 20 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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I have a feeling Diabolos is about to get a lot more popular. Won't say any more than that for now.

Teiei wrote:
To take an example, the celestral avatar bloodpact nukes, tier II and tier IV elemental magic, all possess the same base damage as their black magic counterparts and avatars gain the same MAB and similar INT as a Blm, but they're resist rate is through the roof on any substancial enemy.

Actually, avatars do have a native MAB trait like BLM, and similar INT, but what they can't do is boost their stats like a BLM can. A BLM can add gear that boosts INT, as well as magic attack & magic accuracy, reducing their resist rates and increasing damage. Summoners have very little in the department of pet:mab / pet:macc, and zero in the department of pet:int. In fact, until endgame, we have none. So it's pretty much the equivalent of a naked BLM casting spells. Not even a Taru one, at that.
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#6 Oct 20 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Most of it suffers from lack of game content where you can actually use it.

Healing ruby is nice... but the recast is too long to have any use out of it except a little extra cheap cure when no wards are desired.

Slowga having 5% more slow does not quite warrent use since it also has a shared BP timer. RDM slow II will make it pointless on anything hard, and on anything weak normal slow is just fine enough.

Sleepga has too low rank so it can't overwrite anything, and because it takes longer to cast it really is only worth it if nobody else can sleep. (good for depopping links though)

Nightmare again won't really land on anything meaningful. Perhaps you can use a helix + nightmare on a mission like Sandoria 9-2, but most big fights have sleep immune enemies. Also for exp parties it is rarely worth DoTing a mob to death for exp/hour.

Thunderspark is probably more like attack bonus. I've seen it work wonders on weak monsters, but I've never really debuffed a NM that actually got paralyzed to trigger on them.

All in all it is like the whole SMN job. Full of potential, but no place in FFXI for it to be used.
#7 Oct 20 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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This type of thing is what I've been asking about for so long, but I only have this game on Xbox so I can't do any real big testing. Things like Fenrirs blind / paralyze and Titans slow included.

The nightmare I knew about..haha yes get some SCH's mix it with Modus JA and toss in a nightmare..adds up nicely.

I'm very happy to see Slowga doing the 30%

Quote:
When it comes to using rage pacts, most people see them as rather ineffective before 70


We always seem to loose or gain something in each update sometimes..who here remembers Megalith Throw?!
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#8 Nov 09 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I have always, always, and will always love Summoner.

When I first started playing the game, I have not seen a Summoner and their avatars until I was a good level 30++. Summoner are so beautiful, I wanted to level mine after I played with my BRD.

I am and will always be pro-pet. Even before I actually started to level my own SMN, I had seen others summon avatars, and dismiss them as soon as they pulled off a BP. I was like 'wtf?'

Anyway, when I started playing SMN, I pretty much understood. A Summoner really cannot afford to be pro-pet! Their MP pool will dry out faster than one can say 'I am out if MP!'

When I started playing SMN back in '04 or '05, SMN were only able to perform a single BP, whether it was a ward or rage. I was told what BP the party expected out of me, and that was it. Ontop of running out of MP very quickly, I was not allowed to keep an avatar out anyway, because that avatar would add TP to the monster, and no one liked it. (C'mon, as if that would have made a difference. It never did and never will. You can have 6 MNKs with Subtle Blow +20 wail on a mob, and it would still pull off it's TP attacks.)

Anyway, back on point. I would have loved to just Thunderspark, Tail Whip, Claw, or nuke away with magic, but I was never given the chance. An avatar out spamming something like Shock Strike or Tier IV magic would be able to last for quite a while, but the parties I was in expressed such discontent over a SMN doing anything but Earthen Ward, or Hastega, that I would not even DARE do anything else. I had a JP drop and ditch a party in the Boyahda Tree because I was doing rages instead of wards.

Now SMNs have it better than ever, they have the Siphon ability, and seperate BPs. A SMN keeping out Garuda or Leviathan spamming Claw or Tail Whip (both piercing, along with Poison Nails from Carbuncle) would over time do some nice damage to birds while healing, and be able to keep it up for a while. And now it will be easier to do since avatars now give out an idle buff when the ability from the SMN is activated. (Still not sure how weak avatars will be supressed.)

But that is not what the parties want. They recruit the SMNs only for buffs, and because of that, we will never have the MP we need to simply keep out an avatar just to use the older BPs. That is the reason I don't use rages at all. I don't want to get kicked from parties because I ran out of MP doing rages. (Trust me, plenty of people out there like that.)

However, I no longer join PTs with my SMN anyway, and now with the 'buff' addition, I will refuse to. I can rage with any avatar whenever I want, doing whatever I want, in campaigns... PT exp be damned, unless it is an Astral burn, or a SMN burn. A SMN is truly beautiful when allowed to unleash everything it has got, not just by being a PTs mere buff wh•re.
#9 Nov 09 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Your post seems to randomly switch positions, sometimes admitting terrible MP efficiency and futility of avatar melee, yet other times praising its use...

FinalPlay wrote:
I pretty much understood. A Summoner really cannot afford to be pro-pet! Their MP pool will dry out faster than one can say 'I am out if MP!'

Ontop of running out of MP very quickly, I was not allowed to keep an avatar out anyway, because that avatar would add TP to the monster, and no one liked it.


So... you understand why it's less efficient?

FinalPlay wrote:
I would have loved to just...nuke away with magic, but I was never given the chance. An avatar out spamming something like Shock Strike or Tier IV magic would be able to last for quite a while, but the parties I was in expressed such discontent over a SMN doing anything but Earthen Ward, or Hastega...I had a JP drop and ditch a party in the Boyahda Tree because I was doing rages instead of wards.


It's not really their fault, it's just more logical: 10% (at the time, pre-update) greater damage output from all melee members of the party is more worthwhile than your once-a-minute, 118MP cost + 7 MP to summon + 28 MP in perpetuation Thunder IV, totaling 153 MP for 400-650 damage...

FinalPlay wrote:
Now SMNs have it better than ever, they have the Siphon ability, and seperate BPs. A SMN keeping out Garuda or Leviathan spamming Claw or Tail Whip (both piercing, along with Poison Nails from Carbuncle) would over time do some nice damage to birds while healing, and be able to keep it up for a while. And now it will be easier to do since avatars now give out an idle buff when the ability from the SMN is activated. (Still not sure how weak avatars will be supressed.)


I think you've really just illustrated how badly SMN needs to be updated, and how drastic the changes need to be. Summoner is the only job in the game that has had its power increase by several hundred percent (think of it, its number of abilities per minute was doubled, accuracy was enhanced, more gear was added, /sch became an option, elemental siphon!) and still be seen as lackluster job.

FinalPlay wrote:
I can rage with any avatar whenever I want, doing whatever I want, in campaigns... PT exp be damned, unless it is an Astral burn, or a SMN burn. A SMN is truly beautiful when allowed to unleash everything it has got, not just by being a PTs mere buff wh•re.


So once a minute, you'll use your macro for "ability number 4" instead of "ability number 2," it's not much different, the play-styles are functionally the same. XD
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