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Merit BP Formula Testing ResultsFollow

#1 Aug 10 2009 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Formula (99.9% Accurate, see notes below):

(floor[512+1.72*(TP+1)] + floor[(Avatar's INT - Monster's INT) * 1.5]) * MAB/MDB * Day/Weather

Notes:
*Celestial avatars are BLMs and therefore have MAB IV (1.32) at Lv75.
*After performing dINT*1.5 the result is then floored (decimal snipped).
*After performing 512+1.72*(TP+1) the result is also floored.
*Avatar's INT may vary per summoning, as previously suspected, but 99% of the time, they will have consistent stats, at 82 INT.
*The invisible decimal in TP is included in calculations. I.e. When <pettp> lists 104% TP, you might really have 104.7%.
*This formula may be 1 too high or too low, but is valid for all values of TP, from the very low to the very high.

Methodology
I went to Castle Oztroja and fought Yagudo Prelate (BLM) in order to determine the stats of my avatar. I found one then immediately summoned an avatar (in this case Garuda, noting the day/weather ensuring no bonus effects) and used Wind Blade (only 1 merit, therefore 0% TP bonus) making sure Garuda didn't get any TP before using the BP. I then cast Water II on it several times (to ensure reproducible numbers) to obtain the Yagudo's INT levels. I then waited for the BLM to cast on Garuda, and calculated Garuda's INT levels using the same method outlined in http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage . I also noted the EXP obtained so I could determine the level of the monster and therefore which MAB bonuses to include in my calculations. The results were as follows:

Lv 63 Yagudo Prelate
Water II did 99 @ 73INT from myself.
Water III did 285 damage on Garuda.
Fire III did 360 damage on Garuda.
Wind Blade (0%TP) did 702 damage.
My INT = 73
Monster is BLM/WAR (double attacked during the fight)
Monster has MAB III which is 1.28

Calculated:
Mob INT = 69
Water III = 236+(77-Avatar INT) * 1.28 = 285 = Avatar has 82 INT.
Fire III = 295+(77-Avatar INT) * 1.28 = 360 = Confirmed, 82 INT.
Note: The "M" value was omitted because dINT<0, as per normal magical calculations.

Knowing this, I could then fill in the blanks from previous tests. Isolating dINT allowed me to find that 1INT difference equates to 1.5 damage, or in other words, the "M" value for the merit BPs was 1.5.

With all but the V value worked out, I worked out the V value by substituting in all the other variables, and obtain 512 for V.

This was then checked on another monster:
Yagudo Inquisitor (SAM)
753 Wind Blade (0%TP)
125 Water II > Calculated Monster INT=43
I had 73INT.

(512+(Avatar INT-43)*1.5)*1.32=753

If given Avatar INT = 82...

(512 + 39*1.5)*1.32 = 753

Important Notes to take away from this
*Celestial Avatars and Diabolos are BLM/??? (Unknown if they have a subjob, preliminary results suggest they do)
*Carbuncle is a WHM/???
*Fenrir's job is unknown as of yet.

In terms of what you should merit, here's a detailed breakdown of potential for you:

(floor[512+1.72*(TP+1)] + floor[(Avatar's INT - Monster's INT) * 1.5]) * MAB/MDB * Day/Weather

Assuming the same monster, with 60INT and no MDB:

1 merit: Just the JA (0% TP) = 720
2 merits (40%) = 811
3 merits (80%) = 902
4 merits (120%) = 993
5 merits (160%) = 1083
-----------------------------
1 merit in Avatar Magical Attack: 731 (MAB 1.34)
2 merits in Avatar Magical Attack: 742 (MAB 1.36)
3 merits in Avatar Magical Attack: 753 (MAB 1.38)
4 merits in Avatar Magical Attack: 764 (MAB 1.40)
5 merits in Avatar Magical Attack: 775 (MAB 1.42)
-----------------------------
Max Merits in both: 1165


Edited, Aug 11th 2009 7:33pm by kegsay

Edited, Aug 12th 2009 11:01am by kegsay
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#2 Aug 11 2009 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
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no testing or math to contribute, but i would bet the avatars are BLM/BLM, since SE seems to like job-sub-same-job so much. if a simple aspect of your testing disproves that, my apologies for the worthless post.
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#3 Aug 11 2009 at 2:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
*Proven that Avatar's stats and HP vary per each summoning. This is most likely due to being summoned at different levels.


If you mean varying levels on the avatar, then no. It is always 75 (proven by the guaranteed level 5 petrify at 75). Stats vary because of something else, but if that is what gear you are wearing, time of day, amount of players with names on P in the zone or something else, nobody knows.
#4 Aug 11 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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Thank you for your input, you may very well be correct, because when you add together all 3 factors (MJ/SJ/Race), the INT levels do come out around 90.

Main Job BLM (A Rank)= 5+(75-1)*0.5 = 42
Race (Assuming D Rank, which is Hume) = 3+(75-1)*0.35 = 28
Support Job BLM = 5+(37-1)*0.5 = 23*0.5 (SJ Revision) = 11
TOTAL: 81 INT

EDIT Mellowy:Sorry, my wording was off there, I am aware that Level doesn't change because of LV5Petri

What may be very well happening is that the levels of the avatar are not changing (else it would be indicated via Level 5 Petrify) but the Race is changing. If you plug in the numbers for all Races with the MJ/SJ calculations...

Main = 42
Sub = 11
SUBTOTAL = 53
Race:
Hume = 28 (Mithra are same as Hume)
Galka = 25
Elv = 20
Taru = 42

Totals:
73,78,81,95 INT

Whilst this doesn't conform to statistics of 80,83,90INT, I think a bit of tweaking and it could very well be done.


Edited, Aug 11th 2009 6:51am by kegsay
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#5 Aug 11 2009 at 4:18 AM Rating: Good
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Tweaked the formula very slightly, adding a floor[] and adjusting V by 1 point. This accounts for all anomalies discovered so far.

EDIT: Also added TP to the formula, though final tweaks with flooring needs to be addressed.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 12:38pm by kegsay
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#6 Aug 11 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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I can't think of much in this game that is rounded. Are you sure Avatar TP modifiers aren't truncated or floored?
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#7 Aug 11 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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It turns out the result is floored only after working out TP as well. Still one bit left to do involving post 100% TP, nearly worked out.
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Shaded Specs Obtained 20 June 2005

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#8 Aug 11 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Semi-final update. This is accurate to 1 point of damage for the majority of situations. Any alterations now will be minor.
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Shaded Specs Obtained 20 June 2005

http://kegsay.livejournal.com/
#9 Aug 12 2009 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Studio Goblin actually figured it all ready a while ago.

http://www32.atwiki.jp/studiogobli/pages/31.html

Avatars/spirit are same level as caster, BLM/no sub, INT70, and MAB1.32 from job.
Probably rank D but Gobli isn't sure.

Two types of magic damages:
Diabols type - No status calc used, only level of avatar (Lv+2) and enemy(?)
N.Blast has mult of 5.0@TP0 and ignores -MDT of mobs
Solmn. has mult of 2.0@TP0

Other includes dINT, and from what Gobli described, works on nearly the same
way as magical BLU attacks. ((Lv+2+STbonus)*mult(fTP))+dINT*another mult?

Anyways, he produces some numbers at Lv75 and TP0:
Meteorite: D338 TP300 D409
Tier II & IV: D162 D366
Thunder Spike: D258
Searing Light: D576
Jugdement Bolt: D882

Anyway, very similar to mob magic TP moves work, as well as BLU, so if you
can get some info, it's probably easier.

-- Starfox

____________________________
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 /    ヽァ      Starfox - Odin 
 /   ,-、  \フ 
|  {` ) !      WAR75 - MNK75 - WHM75 
`、____ー´ / 
   ,ノ ,.ヘ、     BLM75 - RDM76 - THF75 
  イハハハハ  , \  
  |   |  \  SAM75 - NIN75 - SMN75 
  ヽ、  ヽ、_/, 
    ¨ヽ  /          DRG7? 
   ,-‐'/フ,' 
  Z__/// | Fox stuck in a Mithra's body! ^^ 
     `¨ー'´
#10 Aug 13 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Thunder Spike: D258


Thunderspark?
#11 Aug 13 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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Thank you very much for the translations on Studio Gobli, the information you've given will help greatly in deriving more formulas for other BPs.

Quote:
Avatars/spirit are same level as caster, BLM/no sub, INT70, and MAB1.32 from job.


There must be either an additional 12 INT coming from somewhere, or Studio Gobli is wrong. I have gathered enough evidence to show that Avatar INT is 82, both from the Merit BP formula itself, and other monsters casting BLM spells on the avatar.

Quote:
N.Blast has mult of 5.0@TP0 and ignores -MDT of mobs

Nether Blast ignores TP, however it is indeed replaced with Level, (5xLv+10)*MAB/MDB


Quote:
Other includes dINT, and from what Gobli described, works on nearly the same
way as magical BLU attacks. ((Lv+2+STbonus)*mult(fTP))+dINT*another mult?

Anyways, he produces some numbers at Lv75 and TP0:
Meteorite: D338 TP300 D409
Tier II & IV: D162 D366
Thunder Spike: D258
Searing Light: D576
Jugdement Bolt: D882


Mob INT needs to be included for these spells though, so without a value for it, I can't really use this information to derive formulas. Also, STbonus is a level correction, so without a level for the monster I can't know the initial V value. From the numbers, it suggests Mob INT is quite high, but without more information I can't verify the formulas.

The next thing I will most likely check now though will be related to Physical BPs as requested, I'm trying to cover the majority of commonly-used BPs first before diverging into other less used BPs. Again, thank you for your translations on Studio Gobli, the formulas will serve as a very useful basis for me.
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Shaded Specs Obtained 20 June 2005

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