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SMN Burn QuestionFollow

#1 Jun 06 2009 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I just came back to the game after two years or so and have been soloing as a BST, currently level 42. I was leveling a sub and I saw someone killing himself over and over and it was to stay at level 10 to do a SMN burn for another character or something. I had no idea what it meant and came here to find out when I already saw some posts about it and began to read. My XP/hr as a BST seems painfully slow, about 2-4k/hr right now and I'd love to try this method where you supposedly get 20+K or so.

I'm curious though how difficult it is to arrange? From what I read you need 3x SMN's, a high level puller to safely train all the mobs and lastly a level 10 person to sync down to and go to Buburimu with. Is that it? I have a number of questions about this process....

It doesn't seem all that hard to find 3 SMN's at level 10+, why doesn't this type of party happen more often? Or is it happening and I as a noob just aren't aware since its over and done with in a short matter of time?

What is the exact method so the puller can get XP as well? I haven't partied much and I'm not sure how pulling the mobs then level syncing would work. I have a friend who is a 75 SAM who would be interested most likely getting a couple easy merits.

I admittedly don't understand how a SMN works, but from what I gather in other threads one of the problems they have is that the mobs are despawning. What is the proper way for the SMNs to kill the mobs so we get XP and don't have this problem?

I think I have more questions but these are the important ones to get started with.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 10:46pm by Viseziox
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#2 Jun 07 2009 at 4:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I haven't done a SMN burn for a while. Least not since it's rumored SE ninja gimped it.

How my group used to do it, though. There was the 3x Summoners. Sometimes one of those Summoners would be the syncee, other times someone else would. The 3 Summoners would basically just sit back and take it easy until it was time for level sync.

Meanwhile, the tank and the people who are leeching would gather the mobs. Tank would pull his/her own mobs, then the people who would leech would go behind the tank and grab any mobs he might have missed. Then while tank holds the mobs, they would go change to their desired jobs they wanted to leech on.

Once that set is done, if there was another tank to rotate, we would. Normally we had 2 tanks. One PLD/RDM. And one RDM/??? (I forget).

On Shiva server, 89% of SMN burn is done in Korroloka Tunnel. If that place is full (which it is almost all the time) some groups go to Buburimu, or Shakrami. Which is maybe why you don't see as many groups doing this as you would think; they're in different areas.

It's not unheard of that someone will pay 1mil+ gil in order to fill in as a leech spot to get a subjob done, if you're not well acquainted with anyone who does them regularely / at all.

As far as depoping. That's what the rumored ninja gimp is. Again, I haven't done this for quite some time. But some groups believe calling for help on one mob makes some sort of difference in something. My group never did, and we rarely had problems.

There's no proper way. No way that Summoners can help prevent mobs from depoping. The Summoners job is simply to cast avatar (a good distance away from all mobs), use Astral Flow (again, away from all mobs). Then to target one mob with Astral Flow ability (do NOT assault), then to stand there as the mobs kill the avatar, which is normally in a matter of 2 seconds (no releasing).

They then go back to camp, pop a ether, wait for cool down, rinse and repeat. There's no room for improvement from the Summoners. Only thing I can think of is for the tank to get as much hate on all mobs as possible. Which with so many, is not so easy.

Edit;

Forgot to mention. The people who would leech, and the tank would be in the same party while pulling. If it's a PLD tank, once all mobs are gathered, he would pull hate off the leeches by curing them. Or if able, he would rest and the leechers would run around him, which caused the mobs to link with the other mobs, since /heal apparently tells them he's about to die.

Once as many mobs are on the PLD as can be, he uses Sentinel just to be sure. Then the leechers disband and go change jobs. Normally the PLD has time before they get back to use Sentinel again. This seems to help secure hate. Resulting in less depops.

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 8:18am by AaralynTrying
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#3 Jun 07 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for all the info, I've tried this twice now but only gotten about 3k XP each time. The first time the pullers that offered to help spoke Japanese so I couldn't really convey what we were trying to do. They were nice enough to help though. Today we had someone dual boxing so he was in party getting XP as well. The most mobs he could seem to round up were 50ish, we decided we would just take those, but while fighting a majority of them depopped, again giving us about 3k XP.

There was a group there before us doing this and they had a lot of success, I don't know what they were doing differently. They did have two pullers though, which I imagine helps...but how can two pullers pull 120 mobs and 1 puller can't even keep 50? I still think there might be some trick to keeping the mobs that I haven't learned yet.

I suppose I'll give this another shot sometime, but its very frustrating having to organize it all, especially when I haven't gotten the desired result yet. Oh well, back to normal parties for now =)

Edit: Would the PLD's invincible give so much hate that they won't depop? That's the only thing I can think of since I haven't used a PLD to pull yet.

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 3:07pm by Viseziox
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#4 Jun 07 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Hm I may have found the answer. A guide I read on Astral Burning says the SMN are supposed to space their Blood Packs 20 seconds apart. It doesn't say why, but I imagine that's to stop from despawning? If despawning wasn't an issue I don't know why the SMNs couldn't just Astral Flow at the same time. Do you think this is the key or is there something else I need to be doing?

Also, when I inform the SMNs that they'll have to space it out 20 seconds apart they're going to ask me how we should organize that. Any tips on a macro maybe that informs the SMN it's their turn to begin summoning the avatar then BP?
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#5 Jun 07 2009 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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My brother was leveling his 15 mnk today and got asked to join one. He ended up going from 15 to 24 in the astral party. They had a paladin and a red mage gather the mobs for about 45 minutes and then three summoners took care of them. The chain went slightly over 100.
#6 Jun 07 2009 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah that's how it works, but that doesn't help resolve my issue of mobs that disappear =)
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#7 Jun 08 2009 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Viseziox wrote:
Hm I may have found the answer. A guide I read on Astral Burning says the SMN are supposed to space their Blood Packs 20 seconds apart. It doesn't say why, but I imagine that's to stop from despawning? If despawning wasn't an issue I don't know why the SMNs couldn't just Astral Flow at the same time. Do you think this is the key or is there something else I need to be doing?

Also, when I inform the SMNs that they'll have to space it out 20 seconds apart they're going to ask me how we should organize that. Any tips on a macro maybe that informs the SMN it's their turn to begin summoning the avatar then BP?

You need time to Astral Flow multiple times, not just once. Spacing it apart keeps the chains alive while giving each SMN time to rest up MP for another AF.
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#8 Jun 08 2009 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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For the mobs to not depop, get the puller to rest and then stand up before you start and he will have an actual form of hate besides just aggro hate. This will allow the mobs to go back to him after the avatar is dead and makes it possible for multiple people to pull and just run through/around the puller until all the mobs are on the puller.
#9 Jun 10 2009 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I've got it working somewhat, not getting the 30-50k people talk about but a decent enough amount. I have a question though, we sync at 13 and the XP never seems to drop even when the syncee dings 20. Is it possible to form an alliance of maybe a total of 7/8 players and still get the same XP? I have some friends who would like to come along but if its only 6 people usually their isn't room.
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#10 Jun 10 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Viseziox wrote:
I've got it working somewhat, not getting the 30-50k people talk about but a decent enough amount. I have a question though, we sync at 13 and the XP never seems to drop even when the syncee dings 20. Is it possible to form an alliance of maybe a total of 7/8 players and still get the same XP? I have some friends who would like to come along but if its only 6 people usually their isn't room.


Alliances further divide the exp-per-kill gain. It's not worth it.

Besides, the more people that know about this, the harder it will be for you and your team to get the camp to yourselves.
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#11 Jun 11 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Default
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Do you need to do /assist or do you just simply get close and astral flow the giga? what keeps the mobs from killing you after you use astral flow?
Does the tank need to cast cure on you to get hate back after you astral flow?

Is lvl10 a safe lvl to do this or is a higher lvl recommended?
what is the highest lvl that will still produce good exp in korraloka tunnel?

Thanks,
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#12 Jun 11 2009 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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13 is best level for the sync. Tank should build as much hate as possible on the gigas and then CFH it, everyone AFs on the gigas but the other mobs won't get hate on the summoner, just the summon, which is why everyone doesn't die. Doing it without a CFH monster you'll occasionally get hate on the Summoners themselves if they assault on something that's white, which is why CFH monster is so much better. And to stop depopping, pullers should stop every 15-30 seconds and the holder should rest to get hate on the pullers mobs.
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#13 Jun 12 2009 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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Darkdoom the Venerable wrote:
13 is best level for the sync. Tank should build as much hate as possible on the gigas and then CFH it, everyone AFs on the gigas but the other mobs won't get hate on the summoner, just the summon, which is why everyone doesn't die. Doing it without a CFH monster you'll occasionally get hate on the Summoners themselves if they assault on something that's white, which is why CFH monster is so much better. And to stop depopping, pullers should stop every 15-30 seconds and the holder should rest to get hate on the pullers mobs.


wut?
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#14 Jun 12 2009 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Acturus wrote:
Darkdoom the Venerable wrote:
13 is best level for the sync. Tank should build as much hate as possible on the gigas and then CFH it, everyone AFs on the gigas but the other mobs won't get hate on the summoner, just the summon, which is why everyone doesn't die. Doing it without a CFH monster you'll occasionally get hate on the Summoners themselves if they assault on something that's white, which is why CFH monster is so much better. And to stop depopping, pullers should stop every 15-30 seconds and the holder should rest to get hate on the pullers mobs.


wut?


Who knows. I posted that with like no sleep, Smiley: lol I think I should have just stuck to "suck less" instead of trying to make something coherent.
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#15 Jun 15 2009 at 3:44 AM Rating: Good
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Sigh...if people would have just read my post on game mechanics as they relate to SMN burning instead of crying that I didn't hold their hand, they would answer their own questions.

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#16 Jun 15 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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personally i do these in the korollka tunnel with a 13-14 sync and the highest i've walked out with was 63k (no exp rings but the additon of one smn to sub cor for corsairs roll adds a huge chunk to what you get.)

they're not hard to set up the hardest thing is stopping some idiot come along and aoe everything you've pulled meaning you gotta start all over again.

when pulling i tend to massively reduce the despawns by either being in /walk or stopping everytime i move 3 or 4 steps/ either of these seems to help alot. i tend to to this solely for merits. sling slotting a job through 15-20 levels is fine but if your just gonna spend a ton of time in a skill up party you havent really saved yourself much time by the time you catch up on your skils.

so i tend to go solely for the merits. netting 26 merits in a mornings astral burn (yay for cor2hrs and besieged revitalisers) is great. with my current schedule of life / endgame it would take me usually 2 - 3 weeks to get that number of merits. and the last couple of weeks i've done it in a morning.

but theres alot of idiots. we gave up last saturday cos some idiot kept aoeing everything we pulled. and by time gms kicked him out the zone we were getting close to gather together time for events.

as for what to target we just target any damn the first mob that f8 selects and its never a problem. all you do is smn shiva from a good distance back run in hit f8 hit diamond dust and run out. as long as your far enough away from shiva when she gets pwnt by the hordes you have zero hate and they all turn back to the tank.

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 1:21pm by Dzian
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#17 Jun 15 2009 at 7:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Just a heads up, I have heard other people say that GMs have been banning people for these types of parties. Obviously, it isn't happening consistently across all servers(and may be due to other breaches of the POL ToS)...but do it at your own risk.
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#18 Jun 16 2009 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dik wrote:
Just a heads up, I have heard other people say that GMs have been banning people for these types of parties. Obviously, it isn't happening consistently across all servers(and may be due to other breaches of the POL ToS)...but do it at your own risk.


I'll repeat here what I've said on KI:

GMs will operate on an individual basis because there is nothing wrong with this method of gaining experience points in the ToS, and, up to now, there has been no official global policy with which to enforce these actions.

Individuals have been banned for two reasons since this became popular.

1. Individuals who have gathered the mobs and are holding them have been banned if there are people in Korroloka tunnel that want to fight them and can't. This is no different than holding a NM or HNM without damaging it. Think KV kites where you are waiting 30 minutes for a linkshell to run out there. This is where those participating are at risk.

2. Individuals who run up and diaga the entire mob hoard while the SMNs are gathering the mobs have been banned as well. This is a griefing tactic, no different than any other MPK attempt. This is where those not participating are at risk.

Thusfar, the GMs have stuck to the rules as they apply elsewhere in Vana'diel. I have yet to hear of any first-hand proof of an exception to this.

As always, when you engage in unusual tactics that are considered a gray area of game mechanics, you are taking a risk. It's one more reason to not make a big stink about this sort of thing.
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#19 Jun 16 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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2. Individuals who run up and diaga the entire mob hoard while the SMNs are gathering the mobs have been banned as well. This is a griefing tactic, no different than any other MPK attempt. This is where those not participating are at risk.
my friends and i have had 2 players kicked out of the korroloka tunnel by gms for this kind of stuff.

i dont think either of them got banned, just warped out of the zone and maybe locked out for a short time.
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#20 Jun 16 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Dzian wrote:
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2. Individuals who run up and diaga the entire mob hoard while the SMNs are gathering the mobs have been banned as well. This is a griefing tactic, no different than any other MPK attempt. This is where those not participating are at risk.
my friends and i have had 2 players kicked out of the korroloka tunnel by gms for this kind of stuff.

i dont think either of them got banned, just warped out of the zone and maybe locked out for a short time.

I'm not using the term "banned" to imply a LM-17 only, sorry if there is confusion. Most of the time, it's a short time jail for 24 or 36 hours, but it does go on the players' record as a first offense, and if they happen to have any other infractions on them, they are at risk for the banhammer.

SE usually has a 2-3 strikes policy depending on how bad the first infraction was against a player.
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#21 Jun 16 2009 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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Whoever's rating down my post, ff you CAREFULLY read my post, I didn't specifically cite the smn burn party technique as a breach of POL ToS.

I said the bans MAY be related to OTHER BREACHES. One example I can think of is where the actions harrasses other players by the person's conduct (e.g. stealing other people's mobs normally isn't a breach of POL's ToS but may become a breach in circumstances which aggravate the situation i.e. you are doing it only to annoy someone and gain no benefit (drops or exp) when someone is trying to exp on those mobs).

Edit: I just read Acturus' subsequent posts and I agree with his comments. There is a specific POL ToS clause which relates to harrassment.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 9:35pm by Dik
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