Well, Fenrirs att/acc buff affects fenrir does it not? I always see the message, but i have no factual evidence to prove it. Only that i have seen his att go up when the buff is on. But really, there is no comparison to having buffs that stack from multiple jobs.
This is just another place where SE failed SMN. The least they could do, is let pets get buffs from another player. Then, maybe we would keep them out more.
It's acc/eva, not acc/attk. Unless you mean indirectly mean Ecliptic Growl, and I hope you don't...
I also have great reason to believe that they don't follow the same pDIF functions as normal melee, for the reason that they traditionally are never buffed. They are designed to be able to do adequate damage without the aid of a BRD or COR pet rolls.
Would you be willing to elaborate on this more, either here or in PMs?
I've always believed that everything follows the same damage function when it comes to melee attacks, unless there is specific NM properties that are unique (of which I have no specific examples) to that NM.
I'd like to know your reasoning in more detail, if you wouldn't mind.
This is for Automatons specifically. I've also noticed it occuring with wyverns and pets, but summons I have no experiences/data of my own to back that sort of claim.
It's most obvious when you are fighting something like an EM steelshell that uses scissor guard. For the master, your cRatio will take an enormous dive, and you'll be struggling to hit above single digits without buffs. The automaton however, will only suffer a small hit to it's DoT, even without attack based attachments or fire maneuvers. The problem associated with this is that you risk losing hate to your automaton, which helps make the problem even more drastically noticeable.
If you think about it, soulsoother only has 240 melee skill with full merits, so 240 attack. 67 STR is another 33 attack. Full optimization is +25% attack, so you should expect it to have about 351 attack total. Not much more than a decently geared PUP without buffs. I'm not really sure what to make of it. Doesn't really help that pet stats are even more ambiguous when player stats are bad enough. The same thing applies to higher level targets like kirin, jailers, etc. It's remarkably hard for valoredge to hit for single digits on nearly ANY target, and that's with no buffs.
It could be that it just naturally has very high base damage (maybe 120-150 DMG weapon for VE at 75 and 360 delay, but not enough attack to exploit 20-25 DPS) that is skewing my perception of damage at low cRatio values. That doesn't quite seem to fit accurately though, as you would imagine your damage per hit would take a more significant decrease than it appears to. If I find some time tonight I'll tackle some level -1 bunnies on PUP75 and attempt to break down what VE's base DMG is at 75. It's one of many things I've meant to do, but haven't had the time for lately. tl;dr: You can follow changes in damage via changes in attack or target defense for PCs quite easily with a basic understanding of cRatio and pDIF. That doesn't seem as applicable for automatons/wyverns/pets as it should be. Avatars I'm simply unsure of; I'm not a SMN.
If avatars work anything like automatons do, I would guess Fenrir at 75 would have at least DMG:75 as a melee weapon with good delay, he'll just never get enough attack to make that DoT really shine.
I don't know how damage works, but avatars tend to cap about 100 below carrie on really weak mobs. Does it give any indication on how much lower the base damage is?
A while back I remember someone mentioning Avatar melee damage being nerfed on TW mobs. Is this true? If so, what was melee damage like before the change? I'm under the impression that this didn't apply to BPs, which is why I've seen SMNs crank out several thousand damage BPs on TW mobs with ease. Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 7:32pm by bsphil