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#1 May 17 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Any Stats affect smn?

Are there any BP that benefit from stacking Mind or Int?

Thanks, looked around but did not see the awsner, if I missed it, appologies, cause its late.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#2 May 17 2009 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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You didn't see any because there aren't any. Only summoning magic and pet/avatar: stats.

Edited, May 18th 2009 12:53am by jlejeune
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#3 May 18 2009 at 1:39 AM Rating: Decent
Actually, has anyone really tested if more int or mind makes a diffrence?
I really think it has some effect. Not huge but is has to some way.

We all know that smn skill and Pet stats do.
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#4 May 18 2009 at 2:52 AM Rating: Decent
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MND and INT and STR for spirit taker. Also accuracy and attack. Not a bad choice with DA either.
#5 May 18 2009 at 3:12 AM Rating: Good
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nope they dont. you can stack as much as you like it wont up ya avatars power. only way to really buff them is either equipment or ward pacts.

for example if you do glittering ruby and carby gets a lucky bonus to int then his meteorites will pack a little more punch. but its generally a waste of mp. and theres a 1/7 chance than ruby will affect int so not worth it.

same goes for diabolos. if you do dream shroud then you can ooz out a bit more oomph from nether blast. again can be a waste of mp unless your at an event in the blackmage party and thus would be using dream shroud anyways.

the only equipment that affects avatars is stuff that either
A: has avatar perp-z, (plus the obvious elemental staves and carbunles mitts)
B: has summoning skill +y,
C: has enhances avatar x (x = attack defence evasion crit% accuraccy etc etc) or
D: has blood pact ability delay +/-

and as far as i am aware theres no food that affects avatars either. as much as i wish there was. and if there is then its new and ive overlooked it.

Edited, May 18th 2009 7:14am by Dzian
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#6 May 18 2009 at 4:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mistress Tailmon wrote:
Actually, has anyone really tested if more int or mind makes a diffrence?
I really think it has some effect. Not huge but is has to some way.


Exhaustive tests were done by pretty much everyone and their mothers back when Summoner first was released as a job class, because with what little gear Summoner had at that time, everyone thought back then that something/anything had to have some effect.

In 5 years of the job class, nothing has ever been shown to corrolate base stats worn by the player affecting the avatar in any way.

The only measured, tested evidence that there is any relationship between the player and the avatar when it comes to stats is that a Pathos affecting the player will also affect the pet. However, this is not Summoner-specific, and is most likely the result of the way that pathos affects are coded.
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#7 May 18 2009 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks guys, I am elvaan, so I rather stack mp gear, and since the other stats don't matter, I will stack away. I can only hit 1100 without breaking out Z legs, which I rather use AF for now.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#8 May 18 2009 at 6:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tyleron wrote:
Thanks guys, I am elvaan, so I rather stack mp gear, and since the other stats don't matter, I will stack away. I can only hit 1100 without breaking out Z legs, which I rather use AF for now.


You'll want to be sure you have a very good +hMP set, and a good +Summoning Skill set. Summoners are not measured by their Max MP, but by how quickly they can recover MP that they have spent.
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Quote:
Everytime Arcturus sees this, he starts to die inside.......I know it D:
actually, i think every time Acturus is called Arcturus he dies inside.


Now THIS is PvP!

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#9 May 18 2009 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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1100 is nothing to be worried about. I'm just a tad over that as a galka.

In the end, you will learn that MP management and hMP are far better than Max MP.
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#10 May 18 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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dakpluto wrote:
1100 is nothing to be worried about. I'm just a tad over that as a galka.

In the end, you will learn that MP management and hMP are far better than Max MP.


It took me 6 MP merits to break 1K as an Elvaan. I think I sit at about 1024 right now, and it serves my needs.
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Before you ask a stupid crafting question, read this.
milich wrote:
Quote:
Everytime Arcturus sees this, he starts to die inside.......I know it D:
actually, i think every time Acturus is called Arcturus he dies inside.


Now THIS is PvP!

MNK ~ SMN ~ SCH
#11 May 18 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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My SMN Magic skill is incredibly gimp, so gimp, that I won't post it here.

Will I be able to land BP on gods. Specifically can i land any decent dmg on Kirin with very VERY gimp Smn skill.

I just hit 74 and was thinking of trying to just use Diablos on him.

Or i will just go War.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#12 May 18 2009 at 11:54 AM Rating: Default
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If by so gimp you mean not even in the 100's, go WAR. If you mean 30 below cap, you should be okay. But you should still work on it.

To cap I suggest Besieged. That's what helped me at least. Though I was only a few behind. (this was before level sync/smn burns). Use physical BP's. May miss a lot, but you still get skill ups.
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#13 May 18 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, don't matter if you are 5 below cap or 200 below cap. There is no negative side effect for being below cap. (Other than spirits) You only get bonus above cap. So Diabolos should be unaffected for you, outside of normal resistances (which Diabolos is rarely hit with.)

As for the other sky gods....SMN kinda sh*t anyways, although the merit BPs help a ton more. But melee and BLMs still better choice.



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#14 May 18 2009 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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AaralynTrying wrote:
If by so gimp you mean not even in the 100's, go WAR. If you mean 30 below cap, you should be okay. But you should still work on it.


Maybe I'm mistaken, but doesn't summoning magic skill only affect accuracy if it's above the cap? Therefore, whether you're 100 or 1 away from cap (including equipment), you're in the same boat. Am I wrong?
#15 May 18 2009 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Max MP can be nice but like others have said getting it back quick is the most important factor.

my smn usually has 1150 mp at max. but with various gear swaps i can push it up to 1431. i usually only do this when soloing the kind of stuff i can't melee for spirit taker. one example being pots in sky.

what i'll typically do is start with my 1431 mp summon titan and then pop mountain buster on a pot. usually leaves me with about 1250 mp so at this point i swap out some of my mp gears for normal stuff like aflegs and horn. and i'm still sitting pretty at 100% and had myself a free mountain buster. and then after a second mountain buster i'll swap in the rest of my gear and still be sitting on almost 1000mp.

while its not hugely essential to do this it does add a factor of survivability for the omg a bloodpact missed kind of thing. giving you mp for spare pacts to cover any misses/whiffs (lol200predatorclaws).

other situations where max mp can have a use is in mobile stuff. limbus is one example. isnt always a great deal of time to rest as your climbing up the floors so having an extra cushion can help keep things running a bit more smoothly. i understand sch is also a good solution for this but its not something i've managed to level yet for a sub.

so yeah max mp can have its uses but shouldn't take priority over mp/healing gear
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#16 May 18 2009 at 9:25 PM Rating: Default
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Perhaps the most bothersome feature of the Summoner is that stats like STR, INT, MND, etc don't make a difference. We're already strapped to a ridiculous timer between abilities; one would think that being given the ability to enhance our damage output at a somewhat comparable level to every other job in the game isn't asking too much.
#17 May 19 2009 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
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I usually plain count on 1k MP on my mithra. It does go up to 1100 or so in some pieces, but my hmp set caps out at 980 and I don't want to rest that much further past that.
#18 May 19 2009 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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dakpluto wrote:
Actually, don't matter if you are 5 below cap or 200 below cap. There is no negative side effect for being below cap. (Other than spirits) You only get bonus above cap. So Diabolos should be unaffected for you, outside of normal resistances (which Diabolos is rarely hit with.)


Don't forget Elemental Siphon, that is 'the' Job ability that is hugely affected by the caster's skill.
I don't laugh about that JA seeing an avaragely geared summoner with close to capped skill can get at least 250MP back from it every 5 minutes.
(Seeing it recover less then that number makes me want to strangle kittens, so think of the kittens when doing a Siphon close to me)

Quote:
As for the other sky gods....SMN kinda sh*t anyways, although the merit BPs help a ton more. But melee and BLMs still better choice.


Unfortunately Dak is right on this.
As far as I know all sky gods with the exception of Kirin have a natural resistance to Nether blast.
Merit BPs do help a bit, but it doesn't cut it close to what melee and blms can do.
So yea, you're better off going WAR on those.

On Kirin however (pending your LS does not TP burn him) Nether blast goes pretty much unresisted.
However unless there's more then one Summoner going along all you'd be doing is pretty much counter Kirin's regen uneffectively.

Edited, May 19th 2009 1:18pm by Shirai
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#19 May 19 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Shirai wrote:

Don't forget Elemental Siphon, that is 'the' Job ability that is hugely affected by the caster's skill.
I don't laugh about that JA seeing an avaragely geared summoner with close to capped skill can get at least 250MP back from it every 5 minutes.
(Seeing it recover less then that number makes me want to strangle kittens, so think of the kittens when doing a Siphon close to me)



o.O your poor neighborhood kitens.

55 MP is all I get right now.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#20 May 19 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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Perhaps I should have clarified summoners at level 75 o.o
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#21 May 19 2009 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I am 74 now, got a wopping 56 mp return.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#22 May 19 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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You'd better start hiding those kittens >.<

In all serousness though, summoner is lucky that skill does not have the effect to the job as much as skills do for other jobs.
Summoner being my pride though, I easily cringe seeing people gimp it up.

But... did you level summoner through burns alone or something?

Edited, May 19th 2009 8:12pm by Shirai
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#23 May 19 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Some burns and a LOT of pts below 30.

Don't worry though I love smn and would never play a gimped job. I would not have taken it all the way if I did not like it this much and plan to play it properly, which is why i read the stickies and ask questions.

I am already going to spam summons while wait on events, and will take smn to sky on nights we farm or do kirin. (I tank on the 4 gods)


I am hoping its not to painfull a process. I am hoping to cap it in a month or 2.

Wish me luck.

If you want to LOL you should see the comments some of my ls mates make when my buffs last only a 1 min and 30 seconds. They are all like WTF.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#24 May 19 2009 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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Get used to those 1.5 minute Hastegas until you get at least 30 skill over cap.

As for Kirin, spam Nether blast.
On the Demigods you're probably best off using Leviathan.

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#25 May 19 2009 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Tyleron wrote:
I am already going to spam summons while wait on events, and will take smn to sky on nights we farm or do kirin. (I tank on the 4 gods)


Should just go do some BP: Rage. You could spam while waiting on events too if you want, but if you really plan to cap it, go use offensive BPs. It's the best way to go. It shouldn't take more than a few days to cap. You can do what I do and just FoV while doing it.

Edited, May 19th 2009 5:03pm by Ildon
#26 May 20 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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Shirai wrote:
As for Kirin, spam Nether blast.

This is actually a common misconception, the only thing Nether Blast gets you on Kirin is ranged damage. Predator Claws damage will generally be significantly higher than Nether Blast, even without capped skill. The question is, can you land Pred Claws consistently? If not, then Nether Blast is a better alternative.

Here's a little tip for landing melee pacts on a moving target:
Summon your avatar well in advance of the target reaching you, avatars are terribly slow so you need to have your avatar up and ready. Get in front of the target, nearly in the kiter's travel path. As the target approaches, just as it gets within range to initiate your BP, do so, followed immediately by an Assault. Your avatar will confront the target face-to-face, and if need be, chase it while readying the BP. Note that it's very important you BP before you Assault, because the BP will cancel your Assault and freeze up your avatar until after the BP is executed. Since Assault timer is 10 seconds, you can't Assault > BP > Assault, so you have to skip the first Assault. Treat your avatar like a grenade; pull the pin before you throw it. This technique can take a little time to get the hang of, but in my opinion it's a very important technique for SMNs to grasp.
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#27 May 20 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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@ Tyleron:

there's something i really like about you: your honesty XD

good success with capping your skill.

#28 May 21 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the tips. Got 12 skill yesterday, its still so low that its top secret.

Killed all 6 avatar's yesterday, just need fenrir for Ring.
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#29 May 21 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Pergatory wrote:
As the target approaches, just as it gets within range to initiate your BP, do so, followed immediately by an Assault. Your avatar will confront the target face-to-face, and if need be, chase it while readying the BP.


I usually don't do the assault after BP as it will mess up my gear change macro (My BP macro swaps in -BP gears, wait 1 sec then swaps in avatar + stats gears). The first part, standing in front of the kite mob's path, issuing the BP command just before it comes in range is the same. But instead of issuing an assault command, what I do is to immediately run alongside the kite mob after I issued the BP. As my avatar is not assaulted to anything, it will kept on following me. As long as I'm beside the kite mob, the BP will land.

But I guess these techniques have somewhat lost a bit of their worth after the last update.


Edited, May 21st 2009 4:11pm by yipkwokonn
#30 May 21 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
Predator Claws damage will generally be significantly higher than Nether Blast, even without capped skill.
Not in my experience. I didn't start matching/passing Nether Blast until I was capped and had a good chunk of skill over cap. Bear in mind this is without Phys Acc merits.
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#31 May 21 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Diabolos, imo, is the best skill up avatar if you can keep your mp up (ie he is GREAT in besieged)

Spam nether blast and somnolence, both of which can never miss, and since you're using it on a target it has a much better chance of skill ups. Missing with a debuff/physical hit will never yield skill, and using a buffing ward has much lower chances of skill ups.

#32 May 21 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Here is what I have been doing on kirin.

Summon Diablos, BP Ward - Magic Attack up, to help with Diablos Nether Blast.

Assault, BP Nether Blast x3 - Rest MP.

Consistently doing 500-540.

Any tips on bettering that.

My skill lvl is still top secret
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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

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