Summoner as /sch vs. /whm :: World of Warcraft

#2 May 01 2009 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good

Fynlar

Jack of All Trades

28,688 posts

Sublimation can work, but keep in mind that you will be unable to rest without Stoneskin. If you're already casting Earthen Ward anyway though, this isn't a problem.

The sub is situationally useful if you do not need what /WHM provides.

#3 May 01 2009 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good

Refews

Sage

189 posts

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=15;mid=1222676904290921077;num=48;page=1

i found this on page two... pretty sane discussion on the topic. My feeling is /whm still edges /sch - but that's only what i interpret from the topics a few pages back. I think /sch shines more with the base mage jobs rather than a jack-of-all-that-is-not-rdm job. :D

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#4 May 01 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent

Nupinu the Eccentric

Guru

852 posts

Sanothetraveled wrote:

I scanned through the stickies and couldn't find any information about how beneficial /sch is compared to /whm. Could someone explain how important /sch is as a sub for summoner 70+?

It's situational. A good SMN will have both /sch and /whm leveled, and choose whichever is best for the situation.

Reraise was once a factor in the decision, but the last update gave SCH access to Reraise at level 35, so this is no longer an issue. The usual debate is Sublimation vs. Stoneskin.

I'm usually found as SMN/SCH, but I'll occasionally bust out the /WHM if I need teleports, Dia, or the ability to keep Stoneskin up while using an avatar other than Titan.

Quote:

Does sublimation work effectively?

Sublimation will return up to 25% of your max HP as MP. If you take damage bringing you to less than 50% HP, Sublimation will stop charging, and you will end up with less than the maximum amount.
As a taru with paper-thin HP, I get back about 190MP. >.>

Edited, May 1st 2009 5:01pm by Nupinu

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#5 May 01 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good

Mistress Tailmon

Scholar

7,819 posts

I have both leveled. I always go /whm. I rather like to have RR when soloing as I also like the auto hp regen and the stronger buffs if I have to cast them. I do know that at some of the endgame events the leaders began to require Smn's to either have whm subbed or carry RR items. This is rather important in places like Ein where your pushed for time.

Edited, May 1st 2009 7:51pm by Tailmon

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#6 May 01 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good

Fynlar

Jack of All Trades

28,688 posts

Quote:

I have both leveled. I always go /whm. I rather like to have RR when soloing

/SCH gives Reraise now.

#7 May 01 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent

ResidentJew

14 posts

Don't forget the usefulness of a nifty ring...Conjurer's Ring. -1 avatar perpetuation cost if you are below 75% hp, /sch gives you the option to be at 75% hp without hp regen bumping you over it all the time. Having that control is nice! Thank you Sublimation!

#8 May 01 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent

PriestoftheVoid

Scholar

785 posts

Do you need Erase? go /whm
Otherwise, go /sch.

/WHM is the situational one now.

EDIT: Assuming 70+

Edited, May 1st 2009 10:27pm by PriestoftheVoid

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Miasto of Bismarck
Black Mage 75 Summoner 75 + misc. mages
Stabbywabby of Garuda
Dancing Galka 75
Jahion of Garuda
Corsair 71

#9 May 01 2009 at 10:48 PM Rating: Excellent

Chaosi

Scholar

65 posts

/SCH is now my default SJ as I prefer being able to control my MP flow myself, not that I won't take Refresh if there is a RDM to cast it on me, just that the stuff I do there isn't always a RDM around.

Also it was pointed out that you have an easier time to trigger conjurer's ring which I use from time to time. I do enjoy having dispel at my disposal without having to use lunar cry and use up a ward timer too (summoning fenrir and using a BP takes just too long imo). To sum it up, most things I do ingame I'm better to go with /SCH as I won't need erase/viruna most of the time and never used teleport spells as much before /SCH days anway.

In the end it comes all up to what you do ingame and what utility spells you prefer from your SJ.

non topic input
I did a Fenrir run trio with a second SMN and a RDM kiting fenrir and spamming my lvl 5 geocrush did a good chunk of damage, always 1200ish without TP. SMN burn fenrir just got that much faster and safer if the SMNs have merit BPs unlocked/lvled (which all SMNs should do now that they are usefull and deal good damage)

#10 May 01 2009 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent

Sir Crystan

Scholar

2,976 posts

Scholar is an awesome support job for Summoners.... but only if you're not healing.

The loss of area effect spells really hurts our already small healing repetoire and it's even harder to recover from the loss of Divine Seal, which can be extremely handy when Cure 3 just won't match the damage you have to restore.

For those times when Summoners get to actually be Summoner's, it's a dream come true. Especially now that they have allowed us to access Reraise from the job! It will help you maximise your MP and keep avatars out for longer while retaining all the NA healing spells you're used to and all the cure spells.

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#11 May 02 2009 at 6:27 AM Rating: Excellent

Arcari

Sage

474 posts

Quote:

Do you need Erase? go /whm
Otherwise, go /sch.

/WHM is the situational one now.

EDIT: Assuming 70+

This. Also, /WHM if you need teles lol.

I get around the lack of AoE Cures with Healing Ruby II, but then again, healing others isn't my primary concern in most events, as there are usually plenty of WHMs and RDMs around. Now, if they would just make Erase low enough to get it from /SCH, I would say there is absolutely no doubt that 70+, /SCH is truly superior to /WHM.

#12 May 02 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Default

Keylin

Scholar

847 posts

Quote:

Scholar is an awesome support job for Summoners.... but only if you're not healing.

Good grief, people still use SMNs to heal? Is it still 2006? In this day and age when there are about 4 other jobs that can do a BETTER job at healing, Summoners are still expected to heal? Laaaaaaaaaame...

#13 May 02 2009 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent

jlejeune

Guru

3,059 posts

Nupinu the Eccentric wrote:

As a taru with paper-thin HP, I get back about 190MP. >.>

On the same token, it doesn't take as long to fill.

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#14 May 02 2009 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent

PriestoftheVoid

Scholar

785 posts

Quote:

Scholar is an awesome support job for Summoners.... but only if you're not healing.

/sch gives you Regen II.
And Light Arts.
Carby takes care of my AoE healing concerns.

Therefore, /SCH is better for healing if you don't need erase.

Quote:

Good grief, people still use SMNs to heal? Is it still 2006? In this day and age when there are about 4 other jobs that can do a BETTER job at healing, Summoners are still expected to heal? Laaaaaaaaaame...

/bitter
No, we're expected to solo unless one of the other 5 or 6 jobs that can heal better is unavailable. Then we're expected to heal.

Edited, May 2nd 2009 6:33pm by PriestoftheVoid

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Miasto of Bismarck
Black Mage 75 Summoner 75 + misc. mages
Stabbywabby of Garuda
Dancing Galka 75
Jahion of Garuda
Corsair 71

#15 May 02 2009 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent

Fynlar

Jack of All Trades

28,688 posts

Quote:

Good grief, people still use SMNs to heal? Is it still 2006? In this day and age when there are about 4 other jobs that can do a BETTER job at healing, Summoners are still expected to heal? Laaaaaaaaaame...

People still expect SMNs to backup heal, yes. Especially before 70.

Until SE addresses the BP/perp issue and makes avatars actually worth keeping out (which they might not ever), don't count on this changing anytime soon, either.