I am about to try to start climbing my way up Nyzul Isle and I was wondering how good SMN does. I know they can heal and people say they cost time because of the zig-zag paths the avatars take, but I was wondering what else they can/can't do.
Also, would it be possible to SMN burn through any of it(5xsmn 1xbrd)?
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Summoner in NyzulFollow
Nyzul would be one of those areas where I'd pretty much never even think of taking my SMN. Too many important things we lack. Sleepga, Dispel, Stona...
And in terms of DD, things in there are so squishy and drinks are so plentiful, melee DD are pretty overpowering, so you will not hold a candle. Not to mention that Nyzul is very very time based, and time based stuff never fits into the SMN job class.
If you have a different job than SMN, odds are pretty good its a better choice to go in as.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 7:22am by dakpluto
And in terms of DD, things in there are so squishy and drinks are so plentiful, melee DD are pretty overpowering, so you will not hold a candle. Not to mention that Nyzul is very very time based, and time based stuff never fits into the SMN job class.
If you have a different job than SMN, odds are pretty good its a better choice to go in as.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 7:22am by dakpluto
75: SMN, THF, WAR, WHM, DRK
I have a disc for floor 76. Played all of that on SMN and it wasn't really any special problems except on "kill 15 FLANs" or "Kill 8 soul flayers" floors. This was even before Elemental Siphon so now it would be even easier.
Party setup was something along:
SMN, RDM, WAR, DRK, MNK, DRG or something else pretty standard.
As you can see there is no BRD or COR, which probably would have made it flow even better.
In general my role was the "go up!" person, so when we were almost done I'd run back (leaving my pet on the mob for additional damage). On kill all floors I usually soloed mobs.
The interesting part is that we actually have dispel, sleepga and stona. Just that I really never use anything but the stona when needed.
All in all if my mixed group could do it, anyone can. Not optimal (that would be something like RDM, BRD, SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM) but it works.
To be honest when I went with a RDM, BRD, SAM, SAM, SAM, COR (me), they moved so fast and positioned so poorly I pretty much only got buffs on half of them and probably helped less on COR than I would have on SMN. But since people think COR automatically makes everything better they were still happy.
Party setup was something along:
SMN, RDM, WAR, DRK, MNK, DRG or something else pretty standard.
As you can see there is no BRD or COR, which probably would have made it flow even better.
In general my role was the "go up!" person, so when we were almost done I'd run back (leaving my pet on the mob for additional damage). On kill all floors I usually soloed mobs.
The interesting part is that we actually have dispel, sleepga and stona. Just that I really never use anything but the stona when needed.
All in all if my mixed group could do it, anyone can. Not optimal (that would be something like RDM, BRD, SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM) but it works.
To be honest when I went with a RDM, BRD, SAM, SAM, SAM, COR (me), they moved so fast and positioned so poorly I pretty much only got buffs on half of them and probably helped less on COR than I would have on SMN. But since people think COR automatically makes everything better they were still happy.
My "ideal" for Nyzul is:
RDM, BRD, WAR, WAR, THF,
6th: WAR if climb, DRK if high level boss.
I prefer WAR over SAM since
1) Ridill is freaking broken as hell on 90% of the mobs in Nyzul
2) Can easily switch to g.axe for sh*t like Chariots
3) better damage mitigation
Oh...if you think you don't need much dispel..you should have been on my last run. 96-100, 3 floors of Psychflayers.... (oh, and because SE loves to hate us, a 5 lamps, in order, Imps near each one...) Thank god boss was just lolhydra.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 9:22am by dakpluto
RDM, BRD, WAR, WAR, THF,
6th: WAR if climb, DRK if high level boss.
I prefer WAR over SAM since
1) Ridill is freaking broken as hell on 90% of the mobs in Nyzul
2) Can easily switch to g.axe for sh*t like Chariots
3) better damage mitigation
Oh...if you think you don't need much dispel..you should have been on my last run. 96-100, 3 floors of Psychflayers.... (oh, and because SE loves to hate us, a 5 lamps, in order, Imps near each one...) Thank god boss was just lolhydra.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 9:22am by dakpluto
75: SMN, THF, WAR, WHM, DRK
Summoner can cure. And haste. And do some damage here and there, depending on mp and if there's another mage. Just don't be that smn that thinks "do your smn thing" (I volunteered to main heal as sch) means that melee alongside carby and use meteorite only. >.>
Of course if you have something else, chances are that that something else would be better.
I don't think it's possible to smn burn, the time limit would kill it. :/
lol, that sounds fun, but that's the exception, not the rule. Most of the time you don't need dispel. Chariot, nope, rat, nope, imp, nope, frog, well maybe, but the spells hurt with or without the matt boost and providence isn't dispelable as far as I know, and flayers require light dispel anyways, which personally I haven't had for more than half the runs. And the little mobs definitely don't need dispel. Short of something like Aquarius >.> that scissor guard on top of its already stupid defense is brutal.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 9:27am by Sharain
Of course if you have something else, chances are that that something else would be better.
I don't think it's possible to smn burn, the time limit would kill it. :/
Quote:
Oh...if you think you don't need much dispel..you should have been on my last run. 96-100, 3 floors of Psychflayers.... (oh, and because SE loves to hate us, a 5 lamps, in order, Imps near each one...) Thank god boss was just lolhydra.
lol, that sounds fun, but that's the exception, not the rule. Most of the time you don't need dispel. Chariot, nope, rat, nope, imp, nope, frog, well maybe, but the spells hurt with or without the matt boost and providence isn't dispelable as far as I know, and flayers require light dispel anyways, which personally I haven't had for more than half the runs. And the little mobs definitely don't need dispel. Short of something like Aquarius >.> that scissor guard on top of its already stupid defense is brutal.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 9:27am by Sharain
Nobody said SMN was impossible, but if you want to get into that realm you could technically get lucky and win with 6 WHM/PUP....but why would you try it.
Question was usefulness of SMN in Nyzul. And in the grand scheme of things, you have to admit we do fall far behind RDM (which is by far the supreme healing job of Nyzul, being a great healer and armed for pretty much every possible mob) and still fall behind WHM and SCH. And in the terms of DD spot, we all know Nyzul is by far not the place for a DD SMN.
So yes, can SMN do it, sure. But there is mob types where SMN will be pretty worthless, or can even cost you the run completely by not taking a different healing job. Nyzul is about being versatile to handle anything, and while SMN is normally a very versatile job, it needed versatality isn't in our deck of cards there.
And yes, SMN burning Nyzul would be too much of a time sink to happen. You would need pretty much perfect random floors. (lots of lamps, Enemy Leader floors) A flying mobs, kill all mobs, floor for example would destroy a SMN burn. The mobs have low HP, but there is a ton of them. While melee can burn through them like a merit party on steriods, the SMN burn party would go through like a turtle on valium.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 10:03am by dakpluto
Question was usefulness of SMN in Nyzul. And in the grand scheme of things, you have to admit we do fall far behind RDM (which is by far the supreme healing job of Nyzul, being a great healer and armed for pretty much every possible mob) and still fall behind WHM and SCH. And in the terms of DD spot, we all know Nyzul is by far not the place for a DD SMN.
So yes, can SMN do it, sure. But there is mob types where SMN will be pretty worthless, or can even cost you the run completely by not taking a different healing job. Nyzul is about being versatile to handle anything, and while SMN is normally a very versatile job, it needed versatality isn't in our deck of cards there.
And yes, SMN burning Nyzul would be too much of a time sink to happen. You would need pretty much perfect random floors. (lots of lamps, Enemy Leader floors) A flying mobs, kill all mobs, floor for example would destroy a SMN burn. The mobs have low HP, but there is a ton of them. While melee can burn through them like a merit party on steriods, the SMN burn party would go through like a turtle on valium.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 10:03am by dakpluto
75: SMN, THF, WAR, WHM, DRK
Quote:
Question was usefulness of SMN in Nyzul.
It is quite useful really.
If you haven't brought a WHM, it offers Stona.
If you get a kill all floor, you can go off and solo mobs easily.
If your healer runs low on MP you can heal while they rest.
If you need additional boss damage you have both magical and physical to help with.
If you run into melee resistant mobs you can nuke them slightly.
You can keep unsleepable mobs busy with carby kiting.
You don't have to worry about oils and powders to go push on lamps.
You can leave a pet on a NM and run back to start, so you both help kill and help zone faster.
The only thing really preventing SMN from being the best job is MP pool and lack of light dispel. That and of course the global timer crap.
SMN is ok on Nyzul, it doesn't really fall behind other jobs as some people think. It is just not reliable as a healer for bosses duo to lack of Cure 4. I got to 100 on Nyzul on SMN alone.
We can Haste, SS the party is actually very good in there and Rolling Thunder is also very effective on those weak mobs. We can also pretty much rape most mobs if we have the mp to spare and having all dmg types avaiable to us (including magic dmg for flans) is awesome. We do have Dispel, just sub /sch, you can take a BLU if you need light dispel. The main advantage we have over RDM is that we can give better support and way better damage, BRDs and CORs are very overated on Nyzul too, most of the times people miss rolls/songs a lot and they are there just to cover up with sleeps for the noobs agroing everything.
I do agree that SMN does poorly on bosses, but those are semi-zerg fights and we all know SMN sucks for zergs.
We can Haste, SS the party is actually very good in there and Rolling Thunder is also very effective on those weak mobs. We can also pretty much rape most mobs if we have the mp to spare and having all dmg types avaiable to us (including magic dmg for flans) is awesome. We do have Dispel, just sub /sch, you can take a BLU if you need light dispel. The main advantage we have over RDM is that we can give better support and way better damage, BRDs and CORs are very overated on Nyzul too, most of the times people miss rolls/songs a lot and they are there just to cover up with sleeps for the noobs agroing everything.
I do agree that SMN does poorly on bosses, but those are semi-zerg fights and we all know SMN sucks for zergs.
SMN75/WHM37
Quote:
Question was usefulness of SMN in Nyzul. And in the grand scheme of things, you have to admit we do fall far behind RDM (which is by far the supreme healing job of Nyzul, being a great healer and armed for pretty much every possible mob) and still fall behind WHM and SCH. And in the terms of DD spot, we all know Nyzul is by far not the place for a DD SMN.
What's with this idea that rdm is somehow a superior healer? >.> Personally you have to drag me kicking and screaming if you want me as rdm for Nyzul. Whm or sch only! Single target status removal is toooo painful if you get any soulflayers or chariots. And enspells are very handy for physically resistant mobs too! ^_^
Summoner is not really bad in nyzul, It just gets sluggish and slow if your group in there is not a set up that allows smn to work. I've gone with all types of different setups, but because one of the members in my first group always came drg/whm and we had a brd/whm I was able to go smn/sch. Summoner can be very nice on floors where you get lots of puddings or slimes. My first climb 1-100 I did as smn and didn't have any real trouble on anything other than the usual soulflayers, chariots, etc. My second static 1-100 I went as pup or drg most of the time, occasionally scolar which I hate playing anyway.
You can go in Nyzul as smn and do well and still win and all that, but if you have a job that is faster moving or has more stamina that would be better. I think sometimes people's only gripe with smn is that it isn't rdm or something, but if smn is all you have you won't have issues winning runs unless your other members are not so good as well. DD's who take large amounts of damage in nyzul are generally the ones not paying attention or not bothering to use the damage mitigation they have.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 6:09pm by shadowkind
You can go in Nyzul as smn and do well and still win and all that, but if you have a job that is faster moving or has more stamina that would be better. I think sometimes people's only gripe with smn is that it isn't rdm or something, but if smn is all you have you won't have issues winning runs unless your other members are not so good as well. DD's who take large amounts of damage in nyzul are generally the ones not paying attention or not bothering to use the damage mitigation they have.
Edited, Apr 26th 2009 6:09pm by shadowkind
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-Kairos lvl300 petmaster Caitsith
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* Bitch, please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
-Kairos lvl300 petmaster Caitsith
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* Bitch, please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
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