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These mini fights suck...Follow

#1 Mar 29 2009 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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So... Im a 28smn at the moment, my highest job is only 30, naturally, its whm, so I didn't pick any good jobs for soloing, getting money, or anything like that. I've tried the mini avatar fights countless times, wasted 10k or more on each one at least... and I still can't beat them. I've gone after Ifirt and Ramuh with no luck on either of them. Can anyone offer me some sort of help or advice on what to do? I love summoner... but its getting so frustrating not being able to get anything other then Carbuncle... Right now on the Phoenix server, Bastok is in second place, but I don't have any good way of making money for traveling between bastok and windy, not to mention buying cornettes to trade in for rep. Please help?
#2 Mar 29 2009 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not even a summoner yet (stupid ruby will not drop for me) but I will offer up the advice of searching for Azzam on youtube. His strategy seems pretty flawless to me.

You're basically using astral flow and carby to 3 shot the avatars. Looks like it just takes some hi-ethers and a yag drink and you're set for the most part. Carby does all the work.
#3 Mar 29 2009 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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if it wer that simple, I would have done them all quite easily... For some reason, its just not as easy as the movies and all the people say it is. Not to mention its expensive. Very expensive, to buy all the items needed to fight ONE battle.
#4 Mar 29 2009 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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SinfulRequiem wrote:
So... Im a 28smn at the moment, my highest job is only 30, naturally, its whm, so I didn't pick any good jobs for soloing, getting money, or anything like that. I've tried the mini avatar fights countless times, wasted 10k or more on each one at least... and I still can't beat them. I've gone after Ifirt and Ramuh with no luck on either of them. Can anyone offer me some sort of help or advice on what to do? I love summoner... but its getting so frustrating not being able to get anything other then Carbuncle... Right now on the Phoenix server, Bastok is in second place, but I don't have any good way of making money for traveling between bastok and windy, not to mention buying cornettes to trade in for rep. Please help?


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Summoner_Guide_to_Mini_Avatar_Fights
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#5 Mar 30 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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It takes some tries till you get it right, after that you sweep them all. SMN is a hard job to start the game, get used to it.
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#6 Mar 30 2009 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd suggest you focus on trying to get Ifrit and Titan first. They are the easiest of the lot, generally speaking. No unpleasant status effects in the form of paralyze and they won't heal themselves. Ramuh has confounded many people in the past because of his tendency to drop Thunderspark on you right off the bat. I'd wait til you are comfortable with the strategy before taking him on.

The collective wisdom of these forums regarding the mini-battles has already be documented in the link above or in the stickies. All the tricks are there, all the gear is listed. Unfortunately there's really nothing left to do but for you to do it.

I sympathise with your losses, I vaguely remember the hassle of doing this myself, and hope you can get through them all soon.

Best of luck.
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#7 Mar 30 2009 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, check out some of the links at the top of the forum for some info. If you already know most of the stuff that's there, then it just comes down to practice (which I know can be pricey).

I think Shiva and Ramuh are the harder of the avatars because of the pesky paralyze, so you might want to try the others first. Having said that though, I got Shiva first just because it was easier for me to get the San d'Orian fame to start the quest. I failed 4 times before I finally beat her on the 5th. After that though, I got the strategy down, and I managed to beat the rest on the first try.

Keep at it!! :)
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#8 Mar 31 2009 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder what people do to lose those battles.

I lost my first, since I was just checking out how the method works. I won all matches past that until ramuh, where I lost 2 times to DC, 2 times to paralyze and won on 5th.

Just pure and simple carby kite for about 50% HP and then 2 astral flows. No spells cast near avatar (because you want to not get hate).
#9 Apr 03 2009 at 6:20 AM Rating: Default
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The mini fight do suck but they are doable. took me 6 tries to clear shiva, ice spikes is a ****


one thing i noticed when i did the minis was you have to adjust for each fight. ramuh shiva and garuda all start with some sort of defence or offence that can nullify searing light.

best thing is to not get frustrated take your time and maybe have a whm friend buff you before you enter each fight

PS spell interruption down is the most effective way to go load up on it and you should be ok and when in doubt try carby kiting a tough mob if you can kill it the avatars shouldnt be a issue
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#10 Apr 03 2009 at 10:26 AM Rating: Default
I suggest that you do not do the mini battles at all. By doing so, you lose the ability to "mini-warp" to all the protocrystals. You will hate yourself when doing your AF, and doing avatar runs for money.
#11 Apr 04 2009 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
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Tenfooterten wrote:
I suggest that you do not do the mini battles at all. By doing so, you lose the ability to "mini-warp" to all the protocrystals. You will hate yourself when doing your AF, and doing avatar runs for money.

Unfortunately that'll mean either leeching the avatars off high-level friends (his highest job is WHM30, so I'm guessing there aren't many of those) or leveling another job for the sole purpose of obtaining the avatars without completing the mini-fork quests. Neither would sound particularly appealing to me, but if he's getting so frustrated with them maybe a break from SMN is good. Who knows.

Note, I did lot list continuing until L70~ as SMN without getting the other avatars as an option.
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#12 Apr 06 2009 at 5:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tenfooterten wrote:
I suggest that you do not do the mini battles at all. By doing so, you lose the ability to "mini-warp" to all the protocrystals. You will hate yourself when doing your AF, and doing avatar runs for money.


I disagree. I feel that the level 20 fights teach would-be summoners an invaluable lesson about kiting and 2hr-ing. Do I feel like I'm a better SMN because of those fights? Yes. Do I regret that I can't warp directly to the proto-crystals anytime I want to fight a prime? Nope. It doesn't really take all that much time to run from the nearest Outpost/Teleport Crystal.

Edited, Apr 6th 2009 9:12am by Squintik
#13 Apr 06 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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I feel really bad for you. You are obviously very dedicated to SMN and im sure we can all appreciate that. What server are you on? If by chance you are on Lakshmi, Ill do all the Primes for you. It has to be demoralizing wanting so bad to be your favorite job and having gil or help be your roadblocks.

When I started the game I just wanted to be a Dark Knight, but Maat was giving me true **** (2005). I was told to lvl an easier job to beat Maat... NO! Anyhow, it was very frustrating and I remember how I felt at the time. I hope you have some luck soon. I'm Zane on Lakshmi. Please look me up if your there. If not, tell us your server and game name so someone can lend a helping hand.

Edited, Apr 6th 2009 9:30am by DarkZane
#14 Apr 06 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I feel really bad for you. You are obviously very dedicated to SMN and im sure we can all appreciate that. What server are you on? If by chance you are on Lakshmi, Ill do all the Primes for you. It has to be demoralizing wanting so bad to be your favorite job and having gil or help be your roadblocks.


DarkZane, I understand your good heart when it comes to help a fellow player. However, we do not need any more babysitting in this game. Harsh words, I know but it's what FFXI has turned into.

When I leveled summoner I had the option of doing the Prime fights with red mage as it was in the mid 60's.

I chose to do the mini fights and while they were frustrating, it thought me more about the game and the job. It made me research as much as I could and try out different approaches.

Applying this mind set to every job I leveled, has made me a better player. I know I am being **** but I have run into numerous players who do not know how to push the summoner 2hr to its highest potential. They will either try to 2hr with not enough mp or wait too long and not be able to pull off the special ability 3x.

Money has never been a huge roadblock for small things in this game. We have tradeskill forums and ways of making gil through gardening easily. You also only need a few crafts to 10 to make decent gil to pay for transportation and meds. Meds used to be extremely expensive and it's not anymore.

the FFXIclopedia has tons of easy to find information on ways of making gil, fame and strategies.
#15 Apr 07 2009 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I feel that the level 20 fights teach would-be summoners an invaluable lesson about kiting and 2hr-ing. Do I feel like I'm a better SMN because of those fights? Yes.


This. Well said. It's a right of passage. And as painful as it may seem, you are learning a lot about job mechanics in the process. It's also incredibly rewarding to solo all the mini-avatars.

Some people say the mini avatars are a joke, other people take some major bumps and bruises (and go broke in the process) before downing them all. That being said, don't believe anyone who says they 1-shotted every mini avatar battle (because absolutely everyone dies at least once while feeling out the strat, and most of us died a couple times before getting the strat down pat). Trust me, once the strat "clicks", you will plow through them.

Just how many times is "countless times"?
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#16 Apr 07 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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don't believe anyone who says they 1-shotted every mini avatar battle


It is interesting that you picked "1-shotted" to comment the situation. I personally believe too many people try and "3-shot" the avatars, instead of just learning to kite and kite for about 50% HP and "2-shot" the avatars to death.

I'm a mithra, so you do not have to be a taru to kite down the HP of the avatar first (but it might be annoying on Galka or Elvaan unless you got gear).
#17 Apr 08 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
I'm a career RDM who is just now running through these fights. I can feel the OP's frustration on the mini-fights. I'm used to kiting, but the mini-fights can be really tough. Luckily, I was able to solo these fights as RDM/NIN. I can see the rationale that learning to beat these minis makes you a better-skilled SMN, I just didn't have the patience for it.
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#18 Apr 08 2009 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the poster that is against doing the mini battles.
It's up to you but I myself use the mini forks to warp to the cloisters.
I warp there to fight the primes for gil. I also warp to them because its sorta like my own version of whm teleports. If you were on the sylph server I would help you get the primes. Getting the fame to get the key item tuning forks is your job though.

If you decide to switch servers I will help you. My name is Nightslayer.
You shouldnt have to switch servers though honestly, if I'm willing to do this for you so should the great many lvl75 smns on your own server. Whats sad is with all the people who fight the primes on a daily basis you cant find even one that will let you tag along....
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#19 Apr 27 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Good
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I feel your pain, Sinful.

SMN is my first job, and i was determined to do all the mini fights myself. I tried starting with titan cause somewhere said he was the easiest - i think i psyched myself out on him, i ended up dying about thirty times and always something stupid (pressed the wrong macro, used a BP:R before astral flow etc)

Anyway, one thing i cannot stress enough is know your macros. I actually had to write them down and have them in front of me on paper.

Once i'd had enough of titan wiping the floor with my a$$, i tried ifrit. got him second time. then got all the others first or second time (except Shiva - I had a mate do this one for me. Shiva's the only one i didn't solo). this is exactly what i did...

1. before entering protocrystal i cast a aquaveil, protect, shell and bar-whatever. (i was between 25-30 by time i got my first avatar) oh - and i used a scroll of reraise.
2. enter crystal, skim thru CS as i know it word for word by now. run up to the 'crack' and summon carby (i was not exactly sure which one 'THE' crack was... the whole path looks cracky to me so i summoned on the last switch back thingy)
3. use yag drink
4. run up to prime (make sure you are close so searing light can go off), carby assault, astral flow, searing light
5. run for your life (don't stop until you reach the bottom platform)
6. by this stage, carby should be dead so recast and THEN use a Hi Ether
7. Assault, Searing light, run back to the top where prime began
8. resummon carby, use Hi Ether, assault, Searing light
9. hopefully avatar is dead, if not, melee and BP:R till he dies.

Notes:
1. I used a scroll of reraise because there's nothing worse then getting KO'ed when the avatar has one slither of health left, and you know if you got up, summoned and assaulted you'd one shot him. Just make sure if you are going to die, you don't die near the top, and you wait until the avatar goes back to his starting position before you get up.
2. A few of the guides i read said not to use astral flow first off, to wait until the avatar is about 50-75% health. i died every time i did that. (except for Ramuh) using astral flow first thing was the only thing that worked for me.
**pls note, when fighting ramuh, wait until he has used Thunderspark, run to the bottom then release and resummon carby and THEN use astral flow (once ramuh is there, obviously). a paralyzed carby is useless for astral flow.
3. use the Hi Ether AFTER you have summoned carby. after using a Hi Ether, there's a few seconds where you can't cast. i've died in these few seconds. multiple times.
4. it's probably better to use an Ether +2 or +3, as they have a shorter casting time. remember you only need 40mp for a searing light (since you're capped at 20), and if your yag drink is still activated you will be gaining mp between astral flows.
5. use a yag drink if it runs out... most of mine i didn't need a second one, but carried it just in case.
6. try to fight the avatar on it's weak day
7. i didn't treat garuda any different... ramuh was the only one i had to alter my strategy for (obviously you might have to for Shiva - i wouldn't know)
8. do not use a blood pact: rage until your astral flow has worn off. stupidly, i didn't learn the first time...
9. if carby looks like he's close to dying, then you shouldn't be there. if you follow the strategy i used then you and the avatar shouldn't really be near each other very often unless he didn't die after the third searing light. if carby dies you need to be far enough away so you have time to resummon before the avatar pounds you.
10. I also carried Hi Potions with me. Just in case.

Not sure if this helps you at all, but this is what worked for me. It's mostly like the strategies on the wiki, but a little different. Worked for me but maybe you need to find your own way? Give it a try.

Please don't give up - you feel so good knowing you got them yourself.

And btw, to the person who said 'I wonder what people do to lose those battles.' Helpful. Very helpful.
#20 Apr 27 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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To the O.P. what I did for my mini fights after..plenty of trial and error was to buy some yags, a few hi ethers..head on in.

Go to crystal, put on protect/shell etc..

Go in do CS after that run up summon carby pop out yag drink.

Assault avatar and haul butt, I never melee'ed them and after figuring out what to do after Titan I had no problem.

Run away, let carby die and resummon, run..I would rinse, repeat about 7/8 times? This isn't a zerg..take your time.

After that, it's time to astral flow 3x. the point of the carby fighting 7/8 times is to take care of any resist.

Stay calm don't panic you got all the time in the world.
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#21 Apr 30 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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Just started these yesterday. I missed my window (watersday) for Ifrit so i hauled over to bastok and did titan first yesterday afternoon/evening. I had read the guide and watched many a vid on all the fights so far and it ran pretty much like clockwork. The thing that is left out of a few discussions is the "trouble" you might find. Since there are infinite possibilities to this trouble, its hard to nail down but a common theme seems to be knocking a player off their planned approach. Have a checklist (write it out if you have to) but also plan to improvise - knowing you will have to improvise will make things 10x easier.

For Titan, he will Bind you if you aggro him casting carby at the crack. I have yet to see, and in my fight last night, him NOT rock bust-yer-ass if you magic aggro him. These are elementals after all so summoning carby a little further away and then running up and /assault may work out a bit better if you are kiting the first 30-45% of the avatar's health. I chose to run the 3 and out routine. I was bound so i had to deal with that, however AF and SL took the pain off me for a bit. the catch is when bind wears off... carby could be dead or could be almost dead - which doesn't allow you to run the full way down with him still out. plan accordingly. i got a SL resisted to 104 dmg (on windsday, more on that below) so i had all three SLs go off and a still alive avatar. hi-pot/ether/yag drink carby and banish did the trick. actually i was about to cast a 2nd banish when carby whacked him the final time.

Ramuh was a different story. I heard how much of a pain he could be with para but that was not the issue. Followed the guide as per Ramuh, carby - hit with paralyze, got paralyna off 2nd try, but it does draw aggro as its a curative buff. i would recommend waiting to cast that till you are further down the path if not at the crystal to avoid a chase scene. other than that, carby retook hate and i ran and everything went according to the guide. AF and SL at the crystal hit for 210 (lightsday...more below too) - ran up and saw Ramuh hit Judgement Bolt. hit the nest, ether - carby, followed, second SL hit for 230. ran back to the crystal - recast carby set up for the third SL - ether, mp @ 52 and as i am hitting the SL macro, Ramuh cast Thunder 2 on carby - he dies, SL doesn't go off and carby is still on a 7 sec timer. hi-pot up - AF wears, recast carby run, yag drink wore, i cast banish and carby disappears and i have 0 mp and 2 ethers and 3 hi-pots left. i hit the ether banish is still cooling down and i get hit with three crits in a row with 2 added effect dmg. at that point i knew i wasn't going to win even with a banish so i took my lumps and chalked it up to a second difference on the last SL. Well played old man... of course as i ran to jeuno to restock on pots and make my way to San'D to take on shiva in 2 hours i got more angry and the bloodlust hit.

Shiva- since I was aware Shiva liked her frost armor, I knew getting a SL off immediately would help avoid the paralyze of the ice spikes so I cast carby at the crack and hit AF as soon as carby was out to get everything set – luckily he only hit her once before I got SL pressed and he got it off. Off I run and everything runs without a hitch till SL #3 again. Coming off Ramuh, I learned a bit of what to do when the last SL doesn’t go off. Unfortunately the Ice Spikes took their toll on carby. I had the last SL on 10 sec cooldown and carby kept getting para’d. when it came up, had 60ish mp and SL got paralyze right off the planet and back on 50sec cool down and AF went bye bye. This time, I let carby smack her around and I banished and bloodtanked her till my mp ran out. Carby gone and I am melee’ing with my staff (my tip, bring whatever weapon you have that does the most dmg for these situations) and downing pots when I need to. Down another ether and banished her into next year.

Garuda was the easiest thus far – which I did this morning. I did the same thing as I did with Titan. Carby got a hit in and I AF/SL right off the bat knowing SL would tear through her armor buff. This fight was the only uneventful one out of the bunch. It almost felt mechanical – which, personally, I felt a little let down. I think these fights are perfect in that they can throw you loops now and again like my shiva and ramuh fights.

Now from my own observations and I did not actually test this with any sort of parser or the like, but I fought titan and shiva on their “weak” days. I am almost positive it has NO effect on carby’s dmg, which can be seen when he fights on lightsday. However, for what its worth, the dmg they inflict on you and carby is reduced. Shiva’s Bliz 2 hit me twice – both times for 21 dmg with nothing more than shell and protect up. Likewise she was hitting me for 7-10 a melee smack and added effects were 10-13. Titan was similar on windsday. My lay-conclusion is that if you do not have smn skill maxed, go on their weak days in order to reduce the overall dmg you and carby take. Not sure about the carby part. I fought Ramuh on lightsday and he hit 10-14 with added effects of 25-28, though carby’s hits were a tad more and SL hit for 230. This also leads me to believe you have a better shot, regardless of smn skill, if you do the kite first, 2SL method on their weak day and the 3SL ASAP on lightsday – but that’s just a hypothesis. Garuda I did this morning on Firesday and carby hit all 3 SLs @ 210dmg and she hit me for 10-15 with added effect of 21-25. I am going to take Ramuh on again on earthday and see the difference. It would make sense though – seeing as the day weakens them – just interpret it as it weakens their output and not their hp/def.

I’d also like to add that the buffs you get from FoV do hold as well. Just do not get the refresh – I did that with shiva and completely forgot the yag drink will not overwrite it. I got stuck a few times waiting for a tick or two when the two you get from the yag would have cut it in half. It may have cost me the 3rd SL, it may not have – but just say no to the refresh FoV-as tempting as it was – test:fail. in retrospect I should have cancelled it and drank my reserve melon juice, but live and learn. Yet, you can get shell from the FoV if you can not find anyone around – Rabao is particularly empty at 6:20am (-5GMT). Also like to add that if you have the money, pick up the Tavnazian Taco and drink a au lait of your choice. I always had hi-pots remaining since the regen effect nullifies any melee strikes against you as you are running away. Save the hi-pots for bloodpacts and if you get caught in a AF:BP (as I did with Titan). Luckily, the +hp stuff on the AH is cheap these days and even my taru with buffs and the +hp gear tops out just under 290hp. Add in the regen effect and you have hp for days.

People say not to panic and keep calm and everything will go fine – well its hard to not get a little amped up when fighting esp since these are really cool fights and have probably essentials for the job you are leveling. That said, keep in mind this is like a free learning fight against a T/VT mob, only a really bad **** looking mob. So panic away, just keep in mind its still FFXI and that is still a mob, treat it like one. Its attacks are not going to one-shot you if you have been keeping up with hi-pots and the bloodpacts are not chainspelled so you have time. If you have to, melee it (bring your strongest weapon and switch to it -hermit's wand -lolwoodenspoon-) just like any other mob – esp in the final throes: unlike most mob fights you are doing solo, you have brought supplies, i hope.

now i have to go put that old man in my box - "Get in the box, old man"

--update: Ramuh went down pretty quietly. Situation was almost exactly the same as above, only he got off a Thunderspark as Carby was charging up SL #3. luckily carby was not paralyzed on that move and got the final SL off. Never used a Hi-Pot and only two ethers this time around. very smooth. only real thing i did different was to continue to run even when carby died, all the way to the crystal and the nest - seemed to allow more time to cast carby without interference. in addition, i was going to wait till earthsday, but as i was hiking out of Bubu, i noticed i was not going to make the airship in time to take on Ifrit during lightsday which had just turned. So i turned around and did Ramuh again on lightsday. I didn't keep track of dmgs mainly because Ramuh hit me maybe three times while i was doing other things (ether, casting carby, etc.) clear time was 4:07, btw.

--update v2.1: Ifrit was by far the easiest. Even more so than Garuda. My trick was to take the double punch from the get go then SL. Actually went on Lightsday and carby held up rather long. I was back at the crystal for a good 5-8 sec before carby died. that allowed me to regen from the au lait and prepare. Recast carby and got antsy since i didn't want to lose aggro from him. ran a bit, carby took off, hit the ether, SL #2 went off right after he got an inferno in on us. carby survived and i was barely in the yellow. ran back up and hi-pot/recast carby/ether...SL#3 went off without a hitch. the only avatar i /goodbye'd to on the 3rd SL. SSC: i was going to do this on watersday but i got very impatient. clear time was 3:48.

--update v3.4f: Leviathan - see Ifrit. the only caveat to this fight was tail whip at the beginning that weighs you down for a brief period. mine lasted till i hit the "elbow" of the path. everything else worked just like ifrit's fight. clear time was 4:12.


Edited, May 2nd 2009 7:56am by Refews

Edited, May 3rd 2009 7:34pm by Refews
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#22 Apr 30 2009 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
On the mini-fork warps:

Yes, they'd be handy. But I've always said that the trial size fights are the single most satisfying thing I've done in the game, so I don't regret my choice for a moment.

On the battles:

Ramuh was the first fight I attempted, and I must have lost 7 or 8 times in every possible way you can imagine before finally winning. After that, I only had one more loss in the remaining 5 avatars (due to pulling hate seconds before the prime dropped a nuke). After each loss, I'd review the log to determine what went wrong, and take steps to prevent it next time. The key to beating them was to switch to a kiting method. I'd kite for the duration of two Yagudo Drinks, then bust out the Astral Flow.

The other strategy that I found to help was to prioritize Hi-Potions over anything. More than Ethers. More than summoning Carby. Dead is dead, and dead means failure, so first priority was getting that HP up, even when the prime was standing there beating on me. And it saved my bacon several times. Needless to say, I went through a lot of Hi-Potions. >.>;

...and the usual yada yada about loading up on Spell Interruption and Evasion gear. That stuff will save your life.

To the OP, good luck with it! Just keep looking at what went wrong each time, and adjust your strategy accordingly.
SMN is my first (and so far, only) job at 75. I solo'd my avatars at 20, got Fenrir at 70, and Diabolos at 75. You don't need another high-level job to be a successful Summoner, just a lot of patience.
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