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Shiva 1 shotting people....Follow

#1 Mar 12 2009 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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So I asked a friend who has soloed shiva several times on his THF to help me unlock it for my SMN. At the time of this my RDM was 62 and I came on it for support, haste, pro, shell, ect.

Well I forgot to sub /whm for BarBlizzardra but its a prime with a decked out THF and I didn't think it would be that hard since I have done the others with a party of 5 and barely cast 3 cures during the entire fight with AF not even breaking stoneskin.

So there we are on EARTHS day, she uses heavenly strike 3 times doing 800, 300, 250 each but I was able to heal through it, then out of no where, BAM Astral Flow for 1671, to my THF friend and 1457 to me through stoneskin and barblizzard on myself, we both had Shell III on.

Now I thought this was a fluke since he has soloed this on his THF before and had no problems but I did this again the other night same setup different THF but he was still decked out but this time I was 75 RDM. We run down to shiva, buff up, Shell IV on both of us, he goes in and tanks I keep him buffed, and she uses Rush a few times, completely missing him, then uses AF for 1500+ damage to him, and it doesn't even break my stoneskin.

I ended up warping out because I couldn't kill her.

So does someone have some explanation as to why she likes to randomly do a @#%^ton of damage and other times she cant even dent a stoneskin? I could see if maybe we were wearing -ice resist gear but when both AF went off neither THF was using a SH or any other gear that might have it, and they both had shell on yet still took that much damage.

I just don't get it... Maybe someone could explain it.



Oh and if your wondering why I didn't just solo them myself its because my ninja sub is 31 and my sword skill is only 100 and I didn't want to wait to go level those to unlock stuff for SMN.
#2 Mar 12 2009 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
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#3 Mar 13 2009 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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#4AaralynTrying, Posted: Mar 13 2009 at 5:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't know.. I once heard that when AF goes off, the person with the most hate will receive the most damage. After hearing that I played off it, and it appeared to be true..
#5 Mar 13 2009 at 6:04 AM Rating: Default
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I have a question. Although I have participated in the Prime fights, I was always the lower-level person hiding in the background, so I don't really know first-hand what the combat experience is like. Anyway, I'm wondering - the AF bloodpacts are magical damage - will Stoneskin even absorb any damage? Or will they completely bypass Stoneskin? I know some NM's can use magical attacks that completely bypass shadows and stoneskin, even a PLD's "Invincible" 2HR. I'm just curious.
#6 Mar 13 2009 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I solo these things on RDM and the 2Hr will definitely use up SS and will go through shadows.
And definitely having a high quality bar-element spell on is the key to surviving it. I can take between 0 and 400 damage from the Avatars 2Hr depending on day and how much SS residual is up when it goes off. Whereas any melee without a barspell is typically going down after the 2Hr.

I have capped enhancing magic and swap in enhancing torque and AF legs when I cast the barspell. That definitely helps. Shiva's only a bitch if she starts casting and landing Sleepga. Or if her ice spikes proc paralyze too often.
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#7 Mar 13 2009 at 6:26 AM Rating: Default
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Yes. Stoneskin can reduce damage taken by AF from the Primes.

Depending though, you can have even capped SS and high barspells, and can still fall fatal to AF. All depends on luck and hate... Never happened to me, but I've seen it happen.

I wouldn't suggest casting SS and standing by the Prime below level 70, however. As it seems below 70, more often than not, you blink as AF goes off and next you know you're kissing the ground.

Edited, Mar 13th 2009 10:29am by AaralynTrying

Edited, Mar 13th 2009 10:31am by AaralynTrying
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#8 Mar 13 2009 at 8:05 AM Rating: Default
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Depending though, you can have even capped SS and high barspells, and can still fall fatal to AF. All depends on luck and hate... Never happened to me, but I've seen it happen.


I hear this not infrequently. I've fought these Avatars solo at least 14 times and I've never seen Astral Flow take off enough HP to cause a dirt nap if I have a fresh SS and a barspell up. Never even close. Are people fighting on days the Avatar is strong to?

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#9 Mar 13 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Avatars are no higher than level 68 in the Trial by- fights.

Players are level 75 nowadays when fighting the Prime fights.

The odds of a mob's attack dealing full, unresisted damage on a player 8 levels higher are not favorable.

It's no different than a naked, unmeritted BLM casting Ancient magic on a level 82 mob and trying to get it in unresisted.

Since resists happen in eighths (0, 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8), then the odds of you seeing a form of reduced damage is pretty good. In fact, it's very good. And, given the ratio of partial resist to unresisted, the unresisted effects will seem "abnormal".

In effect, it's possible for a Trial by- Avatar to peform an Astral Flow attack, have it augmented by the double weather effect from the zone, and see it land unresisted on the player. It just doesn't happen often because of the level (and stat) differences between the mob and the player.
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#10 Mar 13 2009 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Squintik wrote:
I know some NM's can use magical attacks that completely bypass shadows and stoneskin, even a PLD's "Invincible" 2HR. I'm just curious.


pssst....even that level 1 goblin mage can land magic on Invincible. All Invincible does is negate melee damage.
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#11 Mar 13 2009 at 10:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I hear this not infrequently. I've fought these Avatars solo at least 14 times and I've never seen Astral Flow take off enough HP to cause a dirt nap if I have a fresh SS and a barspell up. Never even close. Are people fighting on days the Avatar is strong to?


No. We fought Ramuh on Firesday. Was 75 WAR, WHMx2, and a BRD. I had just reached 75 WHM; to my recollection I didn't have any barspell merits, but the second WHM did. He had full barspell merits and relic pants. And was bragging the whole way there about how his SS was finally capped. He insisted that since he was full on merits, ect, that he be main heal. So I brought a few things to be lolDDWHM.

Around 54% he had to do a cure IV to our WAR. Ramuh took a swing at the other WHM but missed. WAR got shadows back up and voked before Ramuh got another chance to hit the other WHM again. Good thing cause the WHM's SS had wore from the beginning of the fight. Maybe just 3 seconds after the SS animation finished from the WHM reapplying it, Ramuh used AF and the other WHM's hp was 0 right away. WAR had maybe 176 hp. ~irrelevant~ I got a cure IV in on the WAR which allowed the WAR to get Ramuh down to about ~13%, but Ramuh crit hit the war and then used thunderstorm, then hit the WAR again. At that time I was playing on a bad connection, so whenever we fought avatars and they used the merit BP, I would lag like crazy.

I tried to flash Ramuh so WAR could get his shadows back up, but because of lag, was too late, and the WAR died. So with refresh from the BRD, I tanked Ramuh with only SS and Blink the rest of the way. Which I thought was funny, what with my SS not being probably even close to cap, it did pretty well tanking the last 13% of Ramuh. ~/end irrelevant~

I remember glancing for future reference at my Thunder resistance from the other WHMs barspells. Was 120 at least. Not sure if his SS was capped as he claimed. Didn't really pay attention to that. He sure did brag enough for me to believe him, though.

PS - I had my SS up and the other WHM's barspell at the time AF went off, and my SS didn't even break. So~ I don't know what was up with that WHM's supposedly capped SS. Even if it wasn't capped, it couldn't have been any worse than mine, and mine still did good.

Edited, Mar 14th 2009 2:17am by AaralynTrying
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#12 Mar 14 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Decent
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PS - I had my SS up and the other WHM's barspell at the time AF went off, and my SS didn't even break. So~ I don't know what was up with that WHM's supposedly capped SS. Even if it wasn't capped, it couldn't have been any worse than mine, and mine still did good.

Random luck. :P I still remember certain bitch of a garuda, 2 wars and 2 rdms, wars 75, rdms somewhere in early 70s. Two tries. First astral flow dropped both wars, didn't even break stoneskin on rdms. Second astral flow dropped both rdms, didn't even scratch wars. (Baraera and shell 4 on everyone)
#13 Mar 14 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Default
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The problem with barspells, they are more like comparing them to additional effect weapons. Only...revers the activation. You resist about as much as the weapon doesn't proc. That is why MDB is more important than bars. Sure bars are nice to have, however I would rather rely on a guaranteed 5-10% then an unstable 20-30% reduction. Shell4 or 5 really are your best friends in these fights. In the past, on whm, I have only taken about 500-600 damage from AF with no bar or SS up relying just on shell. Even taru mages have 700+ hp (if they arent retarded)

Edited, Mar 14th 2009 10:46am by lightningcount
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#14 Mar 25 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Primes are random. I have had AF do 0 damage to me without SS, and I've had it do 1500 through SS. It all depends if they actually manage an unresisted AF, and then whether or not the weather bonus of the zone kicks in.
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#15 Mar 27 2009 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think any damage in this game bypasses stoneskin. Even moves that are based on your HP% (like throat stab) are mitigated by stoneskin.
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#16 Mar 27 2009 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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i had no problem soloing all the avatars as BST, except Shiva which i had to fight 3 times to win..

i always keep distance from them, when i did Ifrit prime for a friend AF hit my Couriercarrie for 0dmg(she probably had bubble shower up o.o) and 1-shot me. lol
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#17 Jun 15 2009 at 3:54 AM Rating: Default
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In preperation to get my evokers ring I went around and Solo'd all the Avatars over the weekend.

Went 1/1 on all of them but Shiva was the closest after Heavenly Strike for 1110 took me to about 50hp. Astral Flow did about 300

I was Nin/dnc for all fights

My opinion on AF is that although It wipes shadows the more shadows you have up the less damage you take

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#18 Jun 15 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
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like sequ i soloed all celestial avatars few times on bst. i'm not even running out of distance short before the 2hr goes off. i just recast stoneskin and the according barspell and haven't been killed by 2hr a single time yet. but maybe i was just lucky.
#21 Jun 18 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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My opinion on AF is that although It wipes shadows the more shadows you have up the less damage you take

Wrong.
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#22 Jun 22 2009 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I hear this not infrequently. I've fought these Avatars solo at least 14 times and I've never seen Astral Flow take off enough HP to cause a dirt nap if I have a fresh SS and a barspell up. Never even close. Are people fighting on days the Avatar is strong to?


Keep trying. It happens 5% of the time on average assuming capped resistance (which a level 75 player won't have without a Barspell active or some sort of equivalent from gear); you'll see it eventually.

Day hardly matters on these fights as much as people think it does, either. I have been 1-shotted by avatars on their "weak" days and haven't even had Stoneskin break on their "strong" days.
#23 Jun 25 2009 at 5:57 AM Rating: Default
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
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My opinion on AF is that although It wipes shadows the more shadows you have up the less damage you take

Wrong.


This as it states is my opinion based on doing the primes more times than I can remember.

If you can direct me to something that prooves this to be wrong it would be appreciated

Many thanks
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#24 Jun 25 2009 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kamarth wrote:
If you can direct me to something that prooves this to be wrong it would be appreciated


Taken from the Ninja FAQ/Guide on the Ninja Forum;

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3) Area of effect spells. This category includes all spells ending in "-ga." Examples are Diaga, Blizzaga, Firaga, and Banishga. Utsusemi will not absorb these, and you will lose all of your shadows.


In other words, shadows will not absorb AoE magic damage (such as AF). You will lose all of your shadows, and take full damage.
#25 Jun 25 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Default
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Squintik wrote:
Kamarth wrote:
If you can direct me to something that prooves this to be wrong it would be appreciated


Taken from the Ninja FAQ/Guide on the Ninja Forum;

Quote:
3) Area of effect spells. This category includes all spells ending in "-ga." Examples are Diaga, Blizzaga, Firaga, and Banishga. Utsusemi will not absorb these, and you will lose all of your shadows.


In other words, shadows will not absorb AoE magic damage (such as AF). You will lose all of your shadows, and take full damage.


Thanks for the info, I agree that aga's in general did this but always seemed to get much higher damage taken when shadows not completely up for Astral Flow. According to the guide I would imagine it states a "Blizzard IV" would absorb one shadow but for Avatars for it ignores shadows completely.

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#26 Jun 25 2009 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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According to the guide I would imagine it states a "Blizzard IV" would absorb one shadow but for Avatars for it ignores shadows completely.


Yeah, avatar nukes are a little different from standard nukes. They are treated as a "WS" or an ability, not as a nuke (log will say "Shiva uses Blizzard IV", not "Shiva casts Blizzard IV") and it will bypass, but not wipe, shadows.

Even Shiva's Sleepga will not wipe shadows, believe it or not.

The Astral Flow BPs will wipe shadows though.
#27 Jun 26 2009 at 2:58 AM Rating: Default
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That actually explains why they couldn't be MBed back in the days.
#28 Jun 26 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Squintik wrote:
I have a question. Although I have participated in the Prime fights, I was always the lower-level person hiding in the background, so I don't really know first-hand what the combat experience is like. Anyway, I'm wondering - the AF bloodpacts are magical damage - will Stoneskin even absorb any damage? Or will they completely bypass Stoneskin? I know some NM's can use magical attacks that completely bypass shadows and stoneskin, even a PLD's "Invincible" 2HR. I'm just curious.


Stoneskin absorbs any damage thrown at it, no matter the type. Be it physical, magical, or ranged, the attack will have to break Stoneskin first before it can actually do damage to you.
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#29 Jun 26 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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No type of damage bypasses Stoneskin. In fact, when it comes to attacks that do damage + dispel (such as a Dahak's Nullsong), I am pretty sure that the damage is calculated before the dispel is, so Stoneskin will still kick in and absorb damage from it before it gets dispelled. Not 100% certain on that though...
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