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SMN EXP exploit I love you SE 20-40k EXPFollow

#102 Jan 01 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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**** suichi, butthurt much?
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Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#103 Jan 01 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Jinte Jinte Jinte, you think that is butthurt? Just check the posting history of the Valefor forums, especially in between 2004 & 2006.

You are guaranteed a lulz like you can't imagine.
Courtesy of Suichi and many many others natives of Valefor!
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#104xxDaymionxx, Posted: Jan 01 2009 at 11:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I've reported this exploit like 50 times now, is it still not nerfed?
#105 Jan 01 2009 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Nope. But epic laughs will be had if you get banned for clogging up the GM chatlines with spam :D
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#106xxDaymionxx, Posted: Jan 01 2009 at 12:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Oh I'll be the one epically laughing when they ninja nerf this and your AF does like 10 dmg. I'm not cloggin up the "GM Chatlines" whatever that is. This is an acutal issue, if you think this was intended... ohohoho... exploit is in the title.
#107 Jan 01 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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xxDaymionxx wrote:
Oh I'll be the one epically laughing when they ninja nerf this and your AF does like 10 dmg. I'm not cloggin up the "GM Chatlines" whatever that is.


They won't nerf AF that badly. And every time you report something, you take a GM's time. 50 times?

Show me on the doll where the bad SMN touched you.

Edited, Jan 1st 2009 3:51pm by PopeDragunov
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#108xxDaymionxx, Posted: Jan 01 2009 at 12:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 50 was an exaggeration. Probably more like 48.
#109 Jan 01 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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PopeDragunov wrote:
Show me on the doll where the bad SMN touched you.
Screenshot
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#110 Jan 01 2009 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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Feel free to ignore Daymion, regulars of the SMN forum. He magically showed up today and seems to be trying to get a rise out of every job forum. I almost want to give him some credit, but he's not that great at trolling, so I really can't.

We managed to get him to Unrated in the WAR forums in record time - 30 minutes or so, I think. I'm pretty sure his posts don't even show up anymore in the THF forums, either.
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#111 Jan 02 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
PopeDragunov wrote:
Show me on the doll where the bad SMN touched you.
Screenshot


I must admit I lol'd.
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#112 Jan 23 2009 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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sorry for the bump, but I have a question.

When using astral flow and having your avatar disappear, how does the kiter keep hate? When I tried this, the monsters just ate me for breakfast after astral flow :(
#113 Jan 24 2009 at 12:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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AF will pull hate, that's why you kind of have to make sure that all the SMNs AF connects and the mobs are dead, or its a very quick and humiliating death in front of a lvl 75 kiter who will laugh at you until he cries.

True story D:
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#114 Jan 24 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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AF will pull hate, that's why you kind of have to make sure that all the SMNs AF connects and the mobs are dead, or its a very quick and humiliating death in front of a lvl 75 kiter who will laugh at you until he cries.

True story D:


Well you see, I've been doing this 4 times with another group, and everytime, noboody has died. Tried this yesterday with a new group, and we died after our astral flows.

Also, the puller managed to pull about 150 monsters when I was with the group that knew what they were doing. When I started my new group, our puller only pulled about 30 monsters. Perhaps they have more then one puller.

I tried asking the awesome group questions on this, and they said [Good bye.]!
#115 Jan 24 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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xxDaymionxx wrote:
Oh I'll be the one epically laughing when they ninja nerf this and your AF does like 10 dmg. I'm not cloggin up the "GM Chatlines" whatever that is. This is an acutal issue, if you think this was intended... ohohoho... exploit is in the title.


Hey ****** guess what? Pain train is comin (for those of you savvy on your internet comedy).

Using your natural abilities to do their intended amounts of damage isn't an exploit.

Using a function of the game in the manner it was intended (syncing to lower level characters for a mutually beneficial gain of exp) isn't an exploit.

Using a higher level character to hold a large pool of mobs for you to kill/gain exp off of isn't an exploit (hi2u powerleveling).

Using an area of effect spell to kill massive amounts of mobs isn't an exploit.

Name one thing about this that's an exploit or in the LEAST bit illegal or against the ToS. Go ahead. Show us.
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#116 Jan 25 2009 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah we've worked the kinks out now.

This is quite excellent.

edit- lol double post like, a day later. I rule.

Edited, Jan 26th 2009 3:48am by PopeDragunov
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#117 Jan 26 2009 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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It's still nowhere near 20-40k exp however, even with 3 pullers the most we've managed to get was 9.8k exp.
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#118 Jan 26 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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PopeDragunov wrote:
It's still nowhere near 20-40k exp however, even with 3 pullers the most we've managed to get was 9.8k exp.


Trust me, to do this correctly you really need to practice it for a long time. Just keep at it and you'll work out the kinks. Once you do, you can exp really fast. I don't do it often but just by example, took SMN from 67-75 in about 3 hours. When "urdoinitrite"... you'll know it.
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Mindel wrote:
Before =28, I never would have considered putting Old Bay Seasoning on crotch lice. Thanks for that. Really.

Whaleporn wrote:
I'd love to go into fanfest with a baseball bat with 'Absolute virtue' written on it. I wouldn't hurt anyone, just walk around smashing tables, displays, merchandise. When begged to stop, I would simply say "YOU HAVE TO STOP IT'S REGEN." then continue smashing.
#119 Jan 28 2009 at 4:56 AM Rating: Good
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Hapernack wrote:
Name one thing about this that's an exploit or in the LEAST bit illegal or against the ToS. Go ahead. Show us.
Exploits aren't necessarily illegal or bad things. One simple one that is constantly used is using the NPC's pathing AI to PC's advantage. Getting a mob caught on a corner and pinging it to death. None of us are going to dream about saying that's illegal or against ToS, but it is an exploit. We take advantage of bad AI. All an exploit really is, is using game mechanics to obtain large amounts of something in a reduced amount of time or gaining a massive advantage that normally should not be there. Just because it isn't shoddy programming being taken advantage of in this case doesn't change that. If we're going to sit around and call the Salvage Dupe an exploit (which it was) then it's only fair to call this one as well. Duping is an exploit. Botting is an exploit. Getting a monster stuck against a pillar is an exploit. This SMN Burn is an exploit.

Whether Square leaves it or removes has nothing to do with the ToS. That document is a joke, and the only line that matters in it is the one that says they can do whatever they want and you really can't do anything about it.
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#120 Jan 28 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
This SMN Burn is an exploit.

The problem with that is the mobs were always intended to give the exp even when multiples are killed. Ever watch several BLMs -aga EP+? SMNs finally found a place where they could kill fast enough to do it.

Whether SE wants this to continue or not is a different story. They may very well change it, just like they change Souleater against AV specifically. Soul Eater Zerg on AV wasn't an exploit, just not how SE wanted things done. The mechanics intended for it to happen. The mechanics intend, on the other hand, for you to only get one item or for mobs to always follow you if you're within hate range.

It treads the fine line, but the game has always given exp for multiple mobs. BLMs and SMNs have been able to kill multiple mobs since inception. That in of itself doesn't make it an exploit because you're not forcing the mechanics into a course it's not supposed to take.

Edited, Jan 28th 2009 9:43am by jlejeune
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#121 Jan 28 2009 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I feel this Summoner AF mass nuking is not an exploit to the game because there is a risk that also is weighed in to the chance of success. Risk exists.
#122 Jan 28 2009 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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There was risk of getting caught and eliminated by using the Alliance Dupe, so by your definition it wasn't an exploit either.
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#123 Jan 28 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
There was risk of getting caught and eliminated by using the Alliance Dupe, so by your definition it wasn't an exploit either.


He might have used flawed logic, but so far yours hasn't been much better. This new tactic of obtaining experience points is just the next step in a game that is 99.99999% grinding. There isn't a single argument out there for "why this is an exploit" that I haven't been able to shoot down. Until a really valid one comes up, I won't consider this any kind of exploit.

Before anyone repeats the argument of "but its massively killing things at once! Merit PTs don't kill them all at once!", talk to BLMs. I know you shoved us in the god **** corner years ago but guess what... true manaburns are very similar to this method of exp. Not puddingburns... not petburns... true manaburns are JUST. LIKE. THIS. You would have to ban every BLM who did a real manaburn. SE isn't retarded they won't **** off a population for absolutley no reason. Especially when it would cause an entire job of people to most likely leave them.
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Before =28, I never would have considered putting Old Bay Seasoning on crotch lice. Thanks for that. Really.

Whaleporn wrote:
I'd love to go into fanfest with a baseball bat with 'Absolute virtue' written on it. I wouldn't hurt anyone, just walk around smashing tables, displays, merchandise. When begged to stop, I would simply say "YOU HAVE TO STOP IT'S REGEN." then continue smashing.
#124 Jan 29 2009 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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Hapernack wrote:
I won't consider this any kind of exploit.
Just because you don't want to consider it doesn't make it less true. Like I said, it's not a bad thing, as the technique has been around for years since KRT and then some, and it uses legitimate game mechanics, but be honest. Even TP burns is just a slower version of the same thing. We're targeting much lower level monsters which individually yield paltry experience points and exploiting how Chain exp is calculated.

Why's it so hard to just admit you're taking advantage of the game mechanics?
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#125 Jan 29 2009 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Depending on how you define exploit, this could certainly be one.

But the Salvage duping wasn't just an exploit, it was a CHEAT. This isn't a cheat. Maybe you could call it cheap, but that's not the same thing. Please don't lump them together.

Even if they do address this astral burning thing in the future, I highly doubt they are going to suspend/ban anyone that used the trick themselves (and I'm sure it would be very easy to track people that did).


Quote:
Why's it so hard to just admit you're taking advantage of the game mechanics?


Anyone who runs in FFXI is taking advantage of game mechanics. They are going faster than people who walk. Oh, and people who tele/warp are going faster than people who run. Yadda yadda yadda...

Ever intentionally tried to stun a mob's WS because not only was it a devastating attack, it had a long charge-up time and was thus easily stunnable? Whoops, more taking advantage.

What's the big deal here? We're all taking advantage of game mechanics whether we are aware of it or not. Having to "admit" to it is rather redundant/pointless.
#126 Jan 29 2009 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Exactly, we all take advantage of various exploits in the game. It's the hypocrisy that gets to me. "Oh no, it's not an exploit! So-and-so reason!" If you want to lambaste people for cheating that's one thing, but don't for exploits since pretty much everyone exploits something in this game.
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#127 Jan 29 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allow me to introduce you all to the LETTER of the law:

https://secure.playonline.com/polapps/s/s.kb.html.Qa?ZUID=3&polg_loc=en&id=2652&qs=id%3D0%26c1%3D0%26c2%3D0%26k%3Dexploit%26s%3D0%26o%3D0%26term%3D0%26caseNum%3D10%26polg_loc%3Den

Quote:

Question: Actions that could result in an unfair advantage

Answer:
The following is prohibited:

[...]

[Game Exploits]
Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play may have their account suspended and all items or experience obtained through those actions confiscated.\

[...]



Now let me introduce you to the SPIRIT of the law:

If a person in a position of authority (aka a GM) decides that this method of gaining experience points "takes advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play," then guess what, you are EXPLOITING the game.

If this happens, your account may be acted on, which could result in a warning, a suspension, or a ban.

However, there is NO specific mention of this particular method of gaining experience points ANYWHERE in the terms of service, the FAQ regarding fair play, and the only opinion you will find will be from individual customer service representatives.

So, you are at the mercy of interpretation, a.k.a. the spirit of the law.

So, debate back and forth all you want, but when it comes down to it, an individual may be punished for using this method of gaining experience points. A group of persons may be punished, either in whole or in part, for using this method of gaining experience points. Or, the entire community may be punished, either in whole or in part, for using this method of gaining experience points.

Best of luck with that.
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#128 Jan 29 2009 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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I think this was already mentioned before, but the ability of a SMN to destroy things with its 2 hour ability has been around since the inception of the job. Astral Flow was designed to be devastating, and has been around for a very long time. I very highly doubt people will be punished for using this (except it may perhaps be nerfed outright).

The major difference between this SMN "exploit" and the cheating which occurred during Salvage is that the SMN exploit is based upon legitimate means of gaining EXP: kill mobs and they give EXP. Well logically you can kill many mobs and gain EXP for them, Astral Flow allows this to happen, and has always allowed this to happen. The Salvage exploitation was clearly wrong because logically you should not be getting 3x the drops on an item which clearly only dropped once.

I have a feeling this SMN trick will be dealt with in terms of a nerfing, but I don't think anybody will see any backlash from SE in terms of bannings or EXP "rollbacks".
#129 Jan 29 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Why's it so hard to just admit you're taking advantage of the game mechanics?

That's easy. The day I ever do an Astral Flow burn, I'll admit I'm taking advantage of it.

And in the textbook, dictionary definition, that is exploiting. It's achieving the greatest possible advantage, neither positively or negatively. Ironically, the only dictionary definition of an exploit as a noun is a "great deed."

But we don't reference exploits like that. Specifically, we talk about computer exploits when we talk about this game. All a computer exploit is is taking advantage of a vunerability for unethical or illegal gain. In that sense, the Astral Flow burn isn't an exploit. It does exactly what the mechanics have always meant for you to do.

SE, in a rather smart twist, has designed the ToS to say "Whatever we say, goes." But if they call dandelions roses, that doesn't mean they're right, that just means we can't say they're wrong. All that means is we're at the mercy of what they decide that day. Fortunately, that's been fairly cut and dry, despite the ire of people caught in the net.
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#130 Feb 11 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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So we just tried this on a whim; 3 Smn/2 leeches/Cor. Had a Blu pull a horde of mobs in Korroloka, he essentially pulled it on top of us so the 3 Smn's Astral Flowed (not all at once) and promptly died one by one.

What caused this? this seems to be the biggest issue, the only difference in the youtube video was that the players were a bit far away from the actual mobs.
#131 Feb 11 2009 at 11:29 PM Rating: Default
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well I do this and i can say it is an exploit.. Fact of the matter is you need lvl 75 kiters to do this. In essance SE didnt intend for you to be able to this. Is it a bad one? No sorry people lvl on smn have a very hard time getting a party as it is. Ever invite a lvl 30 whm to a lvl 60 party? No?

Just let it be as far as merits are concerned Yeah This is cheap I wont deny it needs toned down a little. 7 merits an hour is pretty **** crazy
#132 Feb 12 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fumikuu wrote:
well I do this and i can say it is an exploit.. Fact of the matter is you need lvl 75 kiters to do this. In essance SE didnt intend for you to be able to this. Is it a bad one? No sorry people lvl on smn have a very hard time getting a party as it is. Ever invite a lvl 30 whm to a lvl 60 party? No?

Just let it be as far as merits are concerned Yeah This is cheap I wont deny it needs toned down a little. 7 merits an hour is pretty **** crazy


This exp is an exploit as much as the following are exploits (so if you're going to call this an exploit, I better see people starting to refer to all these as "exploits"):

-Real Merit PTs (PTs without retards in them pull many mobs like a "mob bank" for the melee to have readily available to kill which requires practically a whole area of mobs and WILL disturb anyone else trying to xp there).

-Kraken DRKs (Require obscene support and specialized gear to do obscene damage on a vast amount of mobs in zerg situations in the game.)

-Melee-burns (Require obscene support and specialized gear to do obscene damage on a vast amount of mobs in zerg situations in the game but not like KC DRK. Pretty sure the developers didn't plan on Tiamat/Vrtra/Kirin/Bahamut v2 falling in under a minute)

-Saving a salvage or assault permit (It does in fact circumvent the mechanics set in place by the NPCs. Don't try to debate this, its true. Its just as hard to admit as this is for us.)

-Manaburns (Next to no support, can yield 24-26k an hour if you do Aern-burns right. Pretty sure SE didn't mean for BLMs to go on their lonesome even though recently we've been 100% forced out of any situation.)

-Summoners who use the mini forks for a free teleport to the primes (Yes this is an NPC exploit).

Look, the point is the list goes on and on. We players have to find little "tricks of the trade" to make things a little easier on ourselves. If you want to call them "exploits", that implies they should all be changed/amended and then the people who used them should be punished. I don't see how this could be considered any worse than any of the "exploits" I just put up there. They won't be changed so why should this? As a matter of fact, this one has big drawbacks those up there don't even have! Ever think what would happen if you used this to level up a job you aren't sharing 90% of your skill levels with already? You'll probably spend almost as much time skilling up as you would've leveling up! This is already being kept in a BIG check by that alone.

On the other hand, I see absolutely no reason why this can't be used for merits on a job you've already finished (seriously name how this breaks anything). More importantly, I don't see why this can't be seen as a totally legitimate way to level jobs you already have shared skills for. Like if I had BLM75 and WHM75 already. Why shouldn't I use this to get RDM and SCH up to 75?
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Mindel wrote:
Before =28, I never would have considered putting Old Bay Seasoning on crotch lice. Thanks for that. Really.

Whaleporn wrote:
I'd love to go into fanfest with a baseball bat with 'Absolute virtue' written on it. I wouldn't hurt anyone, just walk around smashing tables, displays, merchandise. When begged to stop, I would simply say "YOU HAVE TO STOP IT'S REGEN." then continue smashing.
#133 Feb 14 2009 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Had problems with the two runs we did. Things we needed to improve on for next fight. We did this in Buburimu peninsula. We started the first time from the northwest corner of the zone and brought it down to the southeast corner. It was intense lag on this first run. 2nd run was from northeast to southeast corners. Same lag on this one. Mostly Crawlers on the 2nd run, which we did purposely.

Things we noticed we needed to work on. *NOT* panicing when you see tons of monsters. So many that they flash in and out of the game repeatedly.
-Don't panic,
-When you astral flow, Do it TOGETHER.
-Time when Astral Flow's Diamond Dust is used using the InGame Clock.
-Stand next to the mob you are using Diamond Dust on. You don't want the monsters running for you and ruining you chance to hit all the monsters at the same time.

I'm sure you already read something that in this thread though. This is just my success story and what I see we needed to work on. This was my first time doing this.
#134 Feb 17 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Okay a few questions about this real quick.

Our LS does this but only wants to do it level 13-14, and in K.Tunnel, they said level 10 is a waste of XP and level 20 is just stupid because people will die quicker.

Though, we're running out of the level 13-14, and they refuse to let people come who are level 10 and I've been trying to convince them to go to other levels. Like the ones who go from 13 - 20/21 and use the 21's etc..

So how much of a loss are you looking at level 10? and how much more of a risk is it to do this with level 20's? Compared to the level 13 in K.Tunnel, which is about 23k-25k.

My second question is..how long does it take you guys to set this up? My people take..a long time nearly 45 minutes to an hour, just to gather people gather the mobs and..everything. Are they just slow? or is this a normal time? I'm on the edge of quitting this method because..by the time an hour rolls by we've normally earned over 20k, and I can do that on bard on a bird xp. But if it's just my LS that's going slow that's a different story.
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#135 Feb 17 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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SolanaDaChocobo wrote:
I'd really like to see a video of this done. Would be interesting to see.


Here you go.
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#136 Feb 17 2009 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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If you are dying durring these burns your doing it wrong. Its like blm sleep nuke burning. You want to call a time for AF.

My LS has found a good way to take advantage of bubu's level structure. We take 2 kiters and have one get crawlers and bunnys while the 2nd gets zus and dhalmels. We sync to a 12 and AF the lower ones and when the sync biotch levels we get our second dimond dust off on the 2nd group.

We have only netted about 18k per run but with besieged's revitalizor and some good luck with cor 2hour we can get a good 36k+ an hour
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#137 Feb 23 2009 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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What about SMN skill :(

Gonna be a pain to level up! =P
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#138 Feb 23 2009 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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NickRomano wrote:
What about SMN skill :(

Gonna be a pain to level up! =P


hehe 36 SMN with 20 skill here.
#139 Mar 03 2009 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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If you are dying durring these burns your doing it wrong. Its like blm sleep nuke burning. You want to call a time for AF.


You should try not calling a time, and rotating your AF so you can hold a chain. Just a suggestion. Its possible to get Chain 150-175 very consistantly with 4 or 5 smns if you rotate properly.
#140 Mar 08 2009 at 3:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello all : )
I have quite a few questions about the nature of this method as well as the practicality of it. I've done this about 4 times now I believe, and every time, our outcome varies. There are things that I simply am unable to wrap my head around, and finally have reached the point where I bring my questions here for help.


First I'll give a quick background of the outcomes of our past runs:
(Feel free to skip the background info and go straight to the questions below for a lesser read.)


Run#1 (trial): In this trial, we attempted to mimic the video that was recently posted here. We went to Korroloka Tunnel. We synced to a lvl 12, had 5 other smns, and a 75 rdm as the puller. The puller grabbed 25 mobs, and came back to us. At this point we had a 2 hour order that went as follows: player1 casts avatar > astral flows > runs up to the mobs > uses diamond dust (at this point, player 2 has avatar casted, and fires astral flow and begins running up)> player 1's avatar is quickly killed off > player 1 runs back to the "safety spot." player 2 runs up > uses diamond dust (player 3 then casts avatar and fires astral flow), etc etc you get the picture.

This "trial" attempt worked flawlessly, yielding us somewhere in the vicinity of 7-10k xp as well as uninterrupted chains up to 24.



Attempt #2: After having such success with our trial run, we felt we were ready to take on more mobs for greater xp. approximately 40 mobs were pulled this time, and a lvl 15ish syncer was used. As our first smn went to use 2 hour, mobs ate his face before diamond dust even finished landing. We lol'd as to thinking that he must have performed some other action like /assault or something first. The rest of the run went flawlessly otherwise as the trial run had. however, we noticed that "suddenly" a group of mobs seemingly vanished before our eyes. We received ~10ishk xp.


Here's where things begin getting quirky.

At this point we began something of a regular static now with this strategy; something that we plan to do before and after every LS event. The rest of our attempts however, seemingly fail, though they were carried out the same exact way.

Attempt #3. again in Korroloka tunnel. The same exact strategy is used, however, 1 summoner dies after the 2nd diamond dust is attempted, nearly instantly, and again preventing diamond dust from even landing. The rest of the summoners seemingly did not have this problem as we continued. When I, myself, go up to do my 2nd bloodpact, it kills off ~3/4's of the mobs, and our 7-10k xp drops, however the remaining mobs seemingly ate my face and i died as well.

Attempt #4. Same strategy used, however, this time, the pulls are done a tad differently. The initial mobs that are actually "casted on" vice "link aggro" are killed off intentionally so that there is no "claimed hate" on any mobs, only "linked aggro". The mobs were then gathered as normal. I kicked off the first volley of diamond dust, and died instantly. The next summoner tries, and dies instantly. At this point we say to call it off and no one else use 2 hour. However, they decided to be heroes and try anyways. Again the other summoners die instantly. This time a lvl 10 summoner is what we synced to. Again we noticed mobs depopping after ppl using their diamond dusts and dying off. Half of that makes sense; Person claims a "theoretically" unclaimed mob, then dies, so mobs he had claimed, depop.... but what about the rest of the mobs? why didn't they depop as well?

_____________________________________________________________________
Thoughts and questions regarding the above outcomes:

#1. The most obvious question would be; Why is it that even though the same exact strategy was used every time, did we see different reactions from the mobs?

#2. We believed that the puller needs to /heal to "keep" aggroed hate, of course, as to keep the AFing sms from getting bish slapped.

#3. We noticed that for some reason, some of the mobs would depop after one AF'd the bulk, then died off. Half of that makes sense; Person claims a "theoretically" unclaimed mob, then dies, so claimed mobs depop..... but what about the rest of the mobs? why didn't they depop as well?

#4. Every summoner noticed that IF they did get diamond dust off, it only damaged EXACTLY 15 mobs. Is this because there is an actual "cap" so to speak of how many mobs astral flow can effectively land on? or is this just the max that the server is willing to display, even though all mobs will get hit?

#5. we noticed that IN FACT, NOT all mobs were getting hit. This brought us back to the 15 max dmged idea, and that the only reason we were killing off everything before, was because 15 mobs would die, then 15 more, then 15 more, etc.

#6. After realizing that you really only need 2 summoners to use 3 BP's each to effectively kill off a round of mobs, as well as the 15 mobs max being damaged theory, we came up with the following refined idea:
Instead of pulling 587293 mobs at once, have 3-4 different pullers, each only bringing 15 mobs. smn 1 and 2 would kill off group 1, smn 3 and 4 on group 2, smn 5 and 6 on group 3, and all "remaining bloodpacts" that were left over unused, would all be spent on group 4 to finish them off. This would yield the same as bringing 60 mobs at onces, however seemed safer, as well as preventing the "depopping nature" of the mobs to trigger. (this hasn't been tested yet, just theory)

#7. Any other idea, information on why/how mobs are behaving the way they are to summoners 2 hours, or any other detailed strat info would be greatly appreciated.


#8. Would using 5-6x timed astral flows be a better option than staggering the BP's as the video had shown? I don't really see that being the case because imo, the only different outcome, is that #1, you'd lose your chaining, and #2 you'd have 5-6 summoners getting killed at once, instead of one at a time.
_____________________________________________________

All in all, my goal is to work these quarks out, as hapernack mentioned, to yield the ideal xp while incurring 0 deaths. For those of you that DO already have a "perfected" method that seemingly works every time, could you please share it with us in detail?

We've gained over 40k xp so far doing this, while spending probably no more than 3-4 hours doing it, however, it is far from being a perfected strat. It's much more of a "hit or miss" strat.

Again, your help and input is greatly appreciated. And i'm very appreciative of the initial idea being shared amongst the smn community! Awesome ****!!


PS. As far as the exploit discussion, my opinion is that this IS indeed very much so an exploit, as I'm quite sure SE didn't intend for players to manipulate the natural game mechanics to pull of such silly stunts as this to their benefit (that is the epitome of what an exploit is defined as); However, I certainly don't SE getting so butthurt about it that they begin wapping ppl in the head with bansticks over it.



Edits: LOTS OF GRAMMAR ; ;

Edited, Mar 8th 2009 4:30am by xXxNaobixXx
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Blm: 75, Sch: 75, Rdm: 75, Nin: 75, Smn: 72

Daggz:
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Bastok: Rank 10, Windurst: Rank 10, Sandoria: Rank 10
Zilart: Complete
CoP: Complete
ToAU: 19
WotG: 3?
Server: Bahamut
#141 Mar 08 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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What you're not seeing in the video, due to too many mobs covering up the train party, is that the person holding the mobs holds hate by resting. No mobs to depop, and no one gets killed in seconds.

This takes about 30 minutes to an hour to set up (depending on how many mobs you train). Done right you can grab ~200 mobs within an hour and get about 60k in that hour. Go find a COR to reset your AF and you'll be back in business.

I won't get into the exploit vs non-exploit debate. But I will point out some obvious differences between this type of EXP party vs some of the others that people suggested could somehow be the same or even similar.

Hapernack wrote:

This exp is an exploit as much as the following are exploits (so if you're going to call this an exploit, I better see people starting to refer to all these as "exploits"):

-Real Merit PTs (PTs without retards in them pull many mobs like a "mob bank" for the melee to have readily available to kill which requires practically a whole area of mobs and WILL disturb anyone else trying to xp there).


A merit party does not require an outside party member holding a mob that is 20+ levels higher than the merit party's level.

Quote:
-Kraken DRKs (Require obscene support and specialized gear to do obscene damage on a vast amount of mobs in zerg situations in the game.)

-Melee-burns (Require obscene support and specialized gear to do obscene damage on a vast amount of mobs in zerg situations in the game but not like KC DRK. Pretty sure the developers didn't plan on Tiamat/Vrtra/Kirin/Bahamut v2 falling in under a minute)


What does this have anything to do with the topic at hand?

Quote:
-Saving a salvage or assault permit (It does in fact circumvent the mechanics set in place by the NPCs. Don't try to debate this, its true. Its just as hard to admit as this is for us.)


They simply hold three tags (four for captains). Whether you have an extra one on you is irrelevant. The rule is that a new tag gets replenished the next 24 hour period provided the NPC can hold it (whether it be 3 or 4 for those who are captains). The same goes for salvage. You get to obtain a new one every 24 hour period. Even if you "hold" a permit, you can still only do at most 7 runs per real week.

Quote:
-Manaburns (Next to no support, can yield 24-26k an hour if you do Aern-burns right. Pretty sure SE didn't mean for BLMs to go on their lonesome even though recently we've been 100% forced out of any situation.)


Correct. Manaburns do not have to have an outside group managing enmity while they nuke.

Quote:
-Summoners who use the mini forks for a free teleport to the primes (Yes this is an NPC exploit).


No, the free teleport is part of the quest -- much like the free warp scroll when you defeat Maat.

If people do get banned for this, it would likely be explained as an abuse of the enmity and level sync system.
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#142 Mar 08 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Hapernack wrote:
I won't consider this any kind of exploit.
Just because you don't want to consider it doesn't make it less true. Like I said, it's not a bad thing, as the technique has been around for years since KRT and then some, and it uses legitimate game mechanics, but be honest. Even TP burns is just a slower version of the same thing. We're targeting much lower level monsters which individually yield paltry experience points and exploiting how Chain exp is calculated.

Why's it so hard to just admit you're taking advantage of the game mechanics?


The ability to do this has indeed been around for a long time. However, it has been made easier with level sync. In the past, you could basically do it provided you find 3 summoners who all were around the same level (and then 3 other players of the same level). As soon as you succeed, you would have to move to higher level areas and wait 2 hours. Eventually, however, your outside tanks would no longer be able to hold that many mobs because they would die. So there was a natural "end" to this because you could only get so far.

But now that there is COR and level sync which makes it much easier. With a dedicated group, you could easily max out any number of jobs. You simply need a mule that you level to 10, and if need be have it killed of to keep it around level 10 (or whatever level you want to use). With level sync, this essentially allows you to stay in Kor. Tunnel forever. As for skills, you can cap out almost within a single day.

Do you see how this might be viewed as an exploit, now?


Edited, Mar 8th 2009 2:01pm by hpsolo
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#143 Mar 08 2009 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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1,563 posts
Quote:
What you're not seeing in the video, due to too many mobs covering up the train party, is that the person holding the mobs holds hate by resting. No mobs to depop, and no one gets killed in seconds.



What about the issue of the mobs making the "rester" stand once they deal even 1 dmg to him/her? I tried pulling as a blm/rdm and couldn't get more than ~ 25-30 mobs without getting to the point of mobs just killing me. I then tried thf/rdm, was able to get more like 40-50, but then again, still on the verge of death. I know i certainly wouldn't have been able to /heal and stay down longer than .5 seconds.
____________________________
Naobi
Blm: 75, Sch: 75, Rdm: 75, Nin: 75, Smn: 72

Daggz:
Blm 75, Thf 75, War 74

Crafts
Bonecraft: 100 +6, Cooking: 60, Leathercraft: 60, Alchemy: 60, Clothcraft 55, Goldsmithing: 49

Missions
Bastok: Rank 10, Windurst: Rank 10, Sandoria: Rank 10
Zilart: Complete
CoP: Complete
ToAU: 19
WotG: 3?
Server: Bahamut
#144 Mar 09 2009 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The ideal puller for 50+ mobs would be a rdm... or even pld/rdm. One spell and one spell only will save your life... phalanx. Since those mobs will be hitting you for an extremely low amount of damage, phalanx will absorb it all, even though you're getting hit by like 100 mobs at a time. Keep phalanx and stoneskin up at all times, because even with phalanx up, they can get a few critical hits in that will slowly start to wear you down. On a 75 rdm/whm I had so many mobs that when phalanx and stoneskin dropped, my HP started to drop so quickly, I would have been dead in about 20 seconds if I didn't get those spells back up. Also our smns did stagger Astral Flow, one about 15 seconds after the person before them used their 2hr. But be sure to do it WAYYYYYYY out of range of the mobs that you're fighting, or when you go up to astral flow them, just clicking on your bloodpact will get you hate and down you'll go for your dirt nap. With this method we got chain 66 on our best run for a total of 22470 exp in kor(tab) tunnel.
#145 Mar 17 2009 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Any job with /RDM can pull here. Bring earth staff, jelly ring, Tav taco, and some defense gear if you are a job with no native enhancing. As SCH I can train the entire main floor without taking damage with only P4 and Phalanx. As far as the tank, I would imagine you need PLD RDM or SCH. The idea is to focus on /heal only when a puller is near you, then stand again once you have hate. Don't wait for Phalanx to wear off or you will end up getting overrun by your pull. Generally, we wait til about 2mins and recast. If we are resting, start spamming stand and change gears early enough to give you time to get up.

Quote:
What you're not seeing in the video, due to too many mobs covering up the train party, is that the person holding the mobs holds hate by resting. No mobs to depop, and no one gets killed in seconds.


While having your pld rest is essential, it isnt the reason people die in seconds, just keeps mobs from despawning and remaining on the tanks hate list. Not zoning before AF, using abilities too close, being maxed on the hate list above the tank, or the tank dying are the four things that will get you killed.

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 12:34pm by haleoale
#146 Apr 06 2009 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Figured it out with the help of some new friends on my server. Almost had a fight over a camp, but after talking it out nicely, they showed us exactly how to pull this off. Now we can get it set up and done in about 40~50 minutes. With the help of Ballista/Besieged/Corsair you can do it as often as you'd like.

If you want to know the exact strategy (Korrolaka Tunnel 12~14 Sync) send me a PM. I promise it's not just "Gather 140 mobs and get XP). Anything done wrong and someone will end up dead. However, if you follow instructions correctly and have a couple of practice runs you will get this down :).

Even though Korrolaka Tunnel can fit two camps, I want to prevent overcrowding on servers so I won't post it in this thread. I will tell anyone who PM's me though :) Cuts down on camp overcrowding and lets those who actually want to learn it get a ton of fun EXP in short bursts of time.

Edited, Apr 10th 2009 2:25pm by TelephotoBat
#147 Apr 11 2009 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I experienced this last night and it was sick. I was the level sync member with 6 jobs between level 12-15 We were getting chain 100+ in less than 5 minutes.

Our pt set up was 1 BLM, 3SMN, me <random job>. Once the mobs were dead, I would level one job to 20 switch jobs rinse and repeat. While I was switching jobs the rest of the pt would use COR wild card to reset 2hrs. I leveled all 6 jobs to 20 in less than 3 hours which included our downtime looking for COR to use wild card.

I know one of our SMN in our pt went from mid 30's to level 55 by the end of our AOE fun.
#148 Apr 12 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
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i have known about this quite a long time, and just tried it last nite. we did about 3-4 runs, then 2 the nite after that. i got my summoner from 65-70 w/ this, w/ 15k tnl to 71. i would say this is a very effective way of leveling. HOWEVER, if you need skillups youre pretty much ******** yourself over, smn not so much bc we can just summon avatars for skillups, but any other job you will be waaay behind. the way we do it is 3 smn, and 3 others. the 3 summoners have to get AF off at least 3 times. someone in the party has to be the syncee of course. Then we have a PLD/RDM or RDM/WHM pull the 60-100 mobs. btw this is much more effective with more than 1 puller. when all is said and done after the killing, have a COR reset 2 hours if possible. try this as many times as desired but you might need lots of corsairs and keep in mind that after each one you must find a new syncee.

Good luck!
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#149 Apr 16 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Max XP per mob is 200 for levels 1-50.


Thats completly... wrong. On smn lvl 41 I was getting 350 EXP per mob.
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#150 Apr 16 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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DarkandLight wrote:

Quote:
Max XP per mob is 200 for levels 1-50.


Thats completly... wrong. On smn lvl 41 I was getting 350 EXP per mob.


Is that with an EXP band or on an EXP-chain?
#151 Apr 16 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Squintik wrote:
DarkandLight wrote:

Quote:
Max XP per mob is 200 for levels 1-50.


Thats completly... wrong. On smn lvl 41 I was getting 350 EXP per mob.


Is that with an EXP band or on an EXP-chain?


Probably a ring or something because the bonus from even a maxed-out XP-Chain isn't 75%.
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