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Thiefcat's Guide to Lvl 20 Avatar Fights.Follow

#302 May 05 2006 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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One problem I am having, is that in each of the last six fights (titan, garuda, shiva x2, ifrit x2) the avatar has used its 2hr right as I am setting up the third SL. Every time, without fail. Is this normal? Since I have a good idea it's going to happen, should I just sacrifice Carby and run back down to the crystal, assuming the 2hr is coming, then resummon and use third SL at the crystal? If I do this and the avatar doesn't 2hr, the astral flow timer may just run out at that point. Not sure what is best.
Quite normal - what you have to do is be quicker at the draw than the avatar at getting your BPs off. That way the avatar will 2-hour just after your second Searing Light rather than before your third.

Edited, Fri May 5 13:12:22 2006 by Lucinus
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#303 May 05 2006 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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Lucinus wrote:
Quite normal - what you have to do is be quicker at the draw than the avatar at getting your BPs off. That way the avatar will 2-hour just after your second Searing Light rather than before your third.


I think you're right, but how do I do that? Most of the time in these fights, the avatar opens with a BP immediately, and my first SL happens shortly after that (2 or 3 seconds).

I'll watch Azzam's videos again to see if I can get some pointers, but any more advice from you would also be very welcome. How do I beat the avatar to the draw? Thanks.
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#304 May 05 2006 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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The Prime's first BP is fixed; it'll happen as soon as they aggro and are within range. But their next one is not; and if you're quick enough, you can get off your 2 SL before they get off whatever BP they pull out.
#305 May 05 2006 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll watch Azzam's videos again to see if I can get some pointers, but any more advice from you would also be very welcome. How do I beat the avatar to the draw? Thanks.
If you are going to watch any of Azzam's videos, pay close attention to his Garuda one, I found that one to be the most helpful one he did...

Regarding the beating-the-avatar-to-the-draw thing, I suggest mashing your Searing Light macro as soon as you summon your second Carby. You should get the shot off before the avatar uses a BP, at which time you may or may not get caught in Astral Flow crossfire halfway up the bend (if that happens it's a good sign, believe it or not)
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#306 May 10 2006 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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I finished the battles a couple of days ago, Ramuh was ok, just had to time things so that Thunderspark and Shock Strike were not in effect when the SL's went off.

Thanks for the help and advice with these, especially to Lucinus.

MJ

Edited, Wed May 10 10:17:52 2006 by midnightjade
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#307 May 11 2006 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the help and advice with these, especially to Lucinus.
Hey, no problem man, we're all in this together, are we not?
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#308 May 15 2006 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Just tried my first fight, and it was Ramuh. Had good equips i felt like, Baron coat and slacks, Mist Silk Cape, safeguard ring, Fungus Hat (as good def as nething else at that lvl and looks sweet ^^), Bloodbead amulet, Bomb Ring blood stone, and shield earrings (no physicals 4 sale), to make up for my taru hp and def. Steamed Crab, Hi-Potions, Hi-Ethers (there werent any Ethers for sale in jeuno o_O), and the yag drink. i felt set. It was Watersday, but i went in anyway, after all Azzam beat him on watersday ^^. Started out fine, sent in carby, he used thunderspark, and it didnt hurt me bad, which i was pleased with. paralyna, carby dies, ramuh comes at me and i resummon carby. ramuh gets a hit on me b4 carby gets the hate back, but it dosnt too bad damage, which pleased me more. Astral Flow, prepared for 1st Searing Light....
O_O
I FORGOT TO DRINK THE YAG DRINK X( X( X(
so i try to drink the yag drink before i use searing light, and ramuh readies his next move. hits me and i use searing light. or not. im stunned V_V. Then he kills carby. oh lord. so im looking ramuh in the eye with no carby. i deperatly try to run back and forth and get enough distance to resummon carby, failing each time, using hi-potions to heal myself. After a while astral flow wore off, and i ran out of potions, so i resigned myself to my fate.

So all that stood between me and ramuh summon was a mis-timed yag drink. sigh. mabey tomorrow.

P.S. Right before i got my tele to mea to go to the fight I saw Azzam in Jeuno. I had just watched his vid before that too. Figured it was sign that I will defeat Ramuh ^^

Edited, Mon May 15 02:35:43 2006 by ForumEclipse

Edited, Mon May 15 02:37:26 2006 by ForumEclipse
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#309 May 15 2006 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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You can buy ethers in the duty-free store in jeuno for around 5k. Oh, and I found that Aquaveil was really useful when I was trying to get Carby out with an avatar beating on me (that and Hermit's Wand, and maybe a Heko Obi +1). And definitely try to fight him on Earthday (his weak day).

Hope this helps, good luck!

MJ

Edited, Mon May 15 10:28:55 2006 by midnightjade
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#310 Jun 02 2006 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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You guys think maybe it could have to do with your nation? Like some quests if your from Bastok and its a Quest started by a Bastok NPC it would require rank 2 for the Bastoken but it could require rank 3 by another nation? or vice versa
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#311 Jun 03 2006 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Just get Fame 3 (2 in Norg, methinks) to be on the safe side regardless of whether or not you need 2 or 3...
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#312 Jun 03 2006 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Why hasn't this been stickied yet?
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#313 Jun 05 2006 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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This is an excellent guide. Started mini battle yesterday - currently:

1/1 Ifrit - piece of cake, didn't use food and not even close to dying. Was 1 second off the record too.

1/2 Shiva - Took too much hate and got killed on the third searing light. Second fight much easier, even broke record on the server.

1/2 Ramuh - forgot to take Yagudo drink (was my first fight) and Thunderspark connected badly. Second fight was close as I stupidly took Yagudo drink before entering (wrong macro). Did his thunderspark but popped a remedy then cast carbuncle, rest is history.

1/4 Titan - Earthern Ward is a royal pain in the ***. Had to change tactics on this one but finally got him.

1/1 Leviathan - not much to say really. I came, I saw, and I kicked his ***.

1/1 Garuda - not much to say, came close at one point but all ended well.

But yeah this method is great, just gotta remember not to PANIC as I did with the ones I lost. Take it easy and be well equipped - you'll be fine. Rate uP!

Edited, Tue Jun 6 02:37:43 2006 by RogalDorn

Edited, Tue Jun 6 02:40:33 2006 by RogalDorn

Edited, Jun 29th 2006 at 6:51pm EDT by RogalDorn
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#314 Jun 13 2006 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I know probably that no one will read this back far in the thread that was created 2 years ago. I do have a tip that I believe is true. When i check the lvl 51 elemental staves they have a resistance stat on them. When fighting ifrit i checked the staff that had resistance against fire and fought him on that staffs day. I beat him on my first try ^^. I also only cast protect on myself only. I didnt check the staves when battling Shiva and Titan and I definitely didnt win my first time (Shiva 1/5).Im planning on checking the staves on my next three fights. Hope I win and I hope whoever uses my staff method wins too.

Im not saying the people who dont use it should die. ><
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#315 Jun 27 2006 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Just wanted to say this was a great guide! I dinged SMN 20 last night duoing with a BST buddy and couldnt wait to try a mini. Got all the suggested equipment/foods and accidentally bought Hi-Ethers. Decided to try Titan first as I heard he was the easiest. Went in on lightsday. Overall the battle went smoothly for my first attempt. Got a little to close to the "crack" and got agro before I could summon Carby. Kept getting interrupted as Titan meleed me but kept my cool. Finally got Carby out, first Searing Light got a partial resist (100ish damage) but the next two went off for full damage. No need to banish or melee at end. 1/1 on Titan. Dont know who to go after next. Suggestions?
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#316 Jun 27 2006 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Ifrit is pretty easy. Leviathan is supposed to be easy, but has always given me the hardest time.

The Garuda - She uses Blink, but Searing Light will kill the shadows, and will hit Garuda.

Shiva - Uses Ice Spikes. This will paralyze Carby if he gets to much melee in, so Searing Light as quick as you can.

Ramuh - Thunderspark has always been my baine of existance. AoE Paralyze and Damage. You will get paralyzed, so try to sub WHM for Paralyna, and start the Searing Lights on your second Carby.
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#317 Jun 27 2006 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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There was a note added to the main guide that said Azzam took the vids down... if anyone's looking for videos youtube.com has some videos of a girl doing a few of the avatars (most notably shiva and ramuh).

This is a great guide! Should be stickied >_>
#318 Jun 29 2006 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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And I just beat Shiva! Yay for beginner's luck :P

Only problem was i had just set my macros and wasn't used to them.. so i wasted a Yagudo Drink at one point instead of killing her with Banish :(
#319 Jun 30 2006 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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This is an absolutely great post.. <rate up> ^^

But I have one question that may perhaps clarify this 3 searing light method.
- How can you use "Searing Light" three times if "Astral Flow" is your 2hr?
So wouldn't it take 2hr's to recast. Hmmm... I'm confused. Can someone please shed some light on this for me. ^^

Thank you.
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#320 Jun 30 2006 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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The Astral Flow Effect lasts for a little more than 3 minutes. You get a new Blood Pact during Astral Flow. For Carbuncle, this Blood Pact is called Searing Light. It will use ALL of your MP, and to recast it again, you need (Your Level x 2) MP to cast it again. As long as the Astral Flow effect is still on, you have access to this really devistating BP. (Well, devistating until later levels ._.)

Edited, Jun 30th 2006 at 3:33pm EDT by Merlintaru
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#321 Jul 08 2006 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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This has been said before but...

DON'T USE HI-ETHER!!

I don't care if you can't find Ethers, just wait until you can. I tried to fight Ifrit today using Hi-Ether and it was a disaster.. they take an ungodly amount of time to activate.

Trying to beat the avatar using Hi-Ether is signing your own death sentence.
#322 Jul 15 2006 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Why would i want to buy Ethers when they cost more than Hi-Ethers
UNICORN
Hi-Ether=2,500
Ether=5,000
And u have pleanty of time to activate Hi-Ethers if u run far enough

Edited, Jul 15th 2006 at 9:42am EDT by Budahsmoka
#323 Jul 15 2006 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I am not sure, but I think that a Hi-Ether comes with a short medicated effect (like the Icarus Wing, which you can only use one in a given period of time) which is why it's unpopular.
At least Ether prices in NPC-markets don't fluctuate, though.
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#324 Jul 17 2006 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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NPC prices do stay the same, and thank god... (Quetzalcoatl server) the prices on so many items are just too high, they keep inflating and inflating, and seem to never come down... or when they do i don't need them >.>

Just got 20 SMN and i've read through the entire thread, i think it's gonna be really helpful for when i come to do TITAN first.
I'm just not sure about ONE minor detail (trust me ^.^) -

With FAME does it have to be gained in Norg,Bastok,Sandy and Windy, or just the place where you are taking the avatar on... just something i kinda need clearing up ;_;

(1st post too, heh ... yay me >.>)

Karixi

PS- Great guide. i'm sure it has helped so many people ^^

Edited, Jul 17th 2006 at 8:14am EDT by Karixi
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#325 Jul 24 2006 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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So my first three runs were a bust against Leviathan, Shiva, and Garuda. I think the main thing was not distancing myself enough and/or not keeping my hp high enough.

Next three runs were smooth, and managed to get those 3 avatars without much issue.

Tried Ramuh after that, and he's giving me some trouble. First fight he paralyzed me right before second searing light, and I was unable to pull it off. Second fight I was smarter, and survived a long time despite getting hit with his 2 hour and 3 thundersparks. Carby got all 3 searing lights off, but one was resisted, so it left me fighting him alone with my staff with no mp. Needless to say, I died just before I could finish him off because of some unlucky crits he gave me. Stupid old man.

Edited, Jul 24th 2006 at 1:07pm EDT by AkiraTenken
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#326 Aug 05 2006 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I just battled Titan, but lost. My macro for searing light didn't work and i wasn't fast enought to do it the other way. My macro is /pet Searing Light <bt> but it said command error or something. Any ideas what i'm doing wrong?
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#327 Aug 11 2006 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Try this macro instead

/pet "Searing Light" <bt>

you probably just forgot the quotes
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#328 Aug 17 2006 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I just done my first fight (against Titan) everything was going fine until Titan 2 houred after my second Searing Light, wiping out Carby pretty much instantly, so he came chasing after me and he was so close to death, luckily I had lots of Hi-Potions and Ethers with me, so I ended up banishing him to death.

Also I didn't have to wait 24hours to fight Tital again, When I dinged 19 last night and went to try Titan as I was in Bastok just to get a feel, that was at 10am, then I tried again at 2am, 8 hours short of the 24.

Edited, Aug 17th 2006 at 9:35pm EDT by Tatakau
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#329 Aug 22 2006 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I read at www.summoner.info that : "...the level twenty solo battles only require level 2-3 fame. The fame level is not precise, because it varies slightly from person to person, based on unidentified factors." Dont know if this information is good but I heard this is a good website so it would explain why MaestersOfYevon and Thiefcat was able to do these battles at diferent level fame.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2006 at 10:03pm EDT by xxcathxx
#330 Aug 22 2006 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Ive started to do theses lvl 20 solo fights and got Shiva 1/5 and Garuda 1/1. And guess why I lost FOUR times with Shiva! I paniced! After the fourth time with Shiva I asked a friend to cast Protect 3 and Shell 3 on me, tried Garuda, stayed calm..and got her easily. Then I retried Shiva some hours later with my friend buffing me before the fight (didnt have buffs the first fights with Shiva) and got her even if I was close to die.

Like Thiefcat said: DONT PANIC! or you wont win.

Thats what happened with me.
#331 Aug 23 2006 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Also I didn't have to wait 24hours to fight Tital again, When I dinged 19 last night and went to try Titan as I was in Bastok just to get a feel, that was at 10am, then I tried again at 2am, 8 hours short of the 24.
The day-timers reset at Japanese midnight, which explains why you could fight Titan again so soon. You'll know when this is because the servers always calculate conquest results on the midnight between Sunday and Monday.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2006 at 3:45am EDT by Lucinus
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#332 Aug 25 2006 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I completed all my mini battles,

1/1 on Titan (don't count the first one as I was just checking it our)
1/1 on Garuda (went as planned)
1/2 on Leviathan (forgot to use an ether, breathing on him would of killed him)
1/2 on Rumuh (The paralasis wasn't a problem, Carby's first sering light only hit for 54, second time went like clockwork)
1/1 on Shiva (went as planned)
1/1 on Ifrit (easy like the others that went well)

After you have got a couple of battles under your belt, try Ramuh, don't leave him until last because if it's the last one you need and you fail it's a long wait)
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#333 Aug 26 2006 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
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After you have got a couple of battles under your belt, try Ramuh, don't leave him until last because if it's the last one you need and you fail it's a long wait)
QFT. Everyone in my main social LS, and quite possibly people in others, knows that Ramuh was my second victory. It really boosts your knowledge of the fights if you can clear the "hardest" one as early on as you can.

Incidentally, dry runs are your best friends. Do at least two to get the feel for the mechanics of the fight.
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#334 Sep 30 2006 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Tired a few 20-primes tonight.

Ouch...

Okay, first was Titan, because someone told me Ramuh was from Port Bastok e.e

Went in, popped yag drink, walked to crack...

Popped crab, ran to crack, Summoned, agro, get smacked by BP, but all is good. First searing light, run away. Ether, Resummon, second searing light, run away. Good, whee! Resummon...

Third searing light, yag drink just wore off, only brough 1 ether >.<, and it was only a 41mp SL, carby gets nailed by 2-hour and dies (didn't realize this til now), I have a very ****** OFF Titan staring at me with an indistiguishable sliver of health, I swear he had like 4 hp and I whiffed 10 times in a row, dead.

Whatever, I was trying to fight Ramuh anyway, this was a nice warmup...


So I buy the full rack of consumables again and head to Mhaura, and go watch a movie while Astral Flow recharges.

Hmm, I though the clock said it would be Earthsday, oh well... darksday is fine since Lightning is on the Light triad, and its a new moon. Everything looked good, I entered the battlefied.

Popped crab, ran to crack, popped yag drink, started to summ- BLAM THUNDERSPARK *****! Interrupted, try summo- SMACK! try summo- SMACK! try summo- SMACK! try summo- SMACK! try summo- SMACK! Fuq...

Yeah, never even got carby out... did using the yag drink after I ran to the crack make him agro?

No XP loss is very nice on these though, thank altana for that... I'll be using the 3-minute-melee-on-first-yag-drink-to-start method suggested on page 5 or so next time around, should also help me with outgunning his 2-hour.

Ramuh will be my Shooting Fish Slaughterer soon enough! m>.<m

Edited, Sep 30th 2006 at 1:52am PDT by Ranzear
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#335 Sep 30 2006 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Dunno if avatars aggro item use. Wouldn't have thought so. Just to be safe, though, do all the food-y stuff at the Bend if you are planning to summon at the Crack...
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#336 Oct 23 2006 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I just thought I'd add this altho I'm not sure if it works yet. I couldn't buy any boiled crab because it was sold out so the only thing I could think of was a Jack O Lantern. It has evasion and accuracy + 10 and - 6 or something charisma. I still died in the Avatar fight altho I was barely touched until Garuda did her two hour. Compared to my last fight when I was so low in hp. With the Jack O Lantern I didn't need any Hi-Potions up until I died.
#337 Oct 23 2006 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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is getting lots of 50% resists common with searing light? (i am going on the avatars weak day or carbys strong day) and im getting like 1 to 2 50% resists per fight with frigthening consistency.
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#338 Oct 27 2006 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I also got resisted 1 / 3 or 2 / 3 on I think my last 3 fights. I don't really know for sure what causes it, as I did all the fights the same way. (Except for Ramuh, didn't start Yag / AF / SL until my second Carby.)

Another rate up for your guide, Thiefcat, it was the only thing other than Azzam's videos that gave me the best description of what to do.

EDIT: Signature updated

Edited, Oct 27th 2006 at 6:56am PDT by gigglys
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#339 Nov 13 2006 at 8:42 AM Rating: Default
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My Current Avatar Aquisition Status:
1/2 Titan (Set a new record for beating Him on Asura... 3min 41 secs)
1/2 Shiva (Set a new record for beating Her on Asura... 3min 52 secs)
1/1 Garuda (Set a new record for beating Her on Asura... 4min 16 secs)
1/1 Ramuh (Set a new record for beating Him on Asura... 4min FLAT!)
1/1 Ifrit (Set a new record for beating Him on Asura... 4min 27 secs)
0/0 Leviathan Need Norg Fame


Edited, Nov 16th 2006 at 9:35pm PST by crashOvrd
#342 Nov 22 2006 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Great guide! I just beat Shiva last night on Lightsday. The first SL didn't work too well, but the other two hit for 200+ damage! I followed the guide and got as much HP/DEF as I could get and won.
#343 Nov 22 2006 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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you need more HP and Def then you do MP

Not recommended for everyone. I'll explain why below.
Quote:
Banish is your second best weapon

Please, don't use Banish unless you're pretty damned SURE you're going to kill the enemy. Using it can make the enemy switch targets in an instant, and this can often mean taking an enemy blood pact to the face. Since it also adds hate to your list, it can mess up your astral flow attacks.
Quote:
Be level 20 and Max your smn skill

Summoning skill is not necessary. It does absolutely NOTHING at this level. There are no equips which raise your summoning skill, thus you will notice no difference in your damage or resist rates. The recent patch only affects avatars when you have MORE summoning skill than your normal cap, and it doesn't matter what your skill is, its still likely you'll be interrupted while casting Carbuncle if you get struck by an avatar.

10) Don't be a slave to your astral flow!

Astral Flow is our most powerful ability, but it has a heavy drawback which is often overlooked in the level 20 cap battles. Bearing in mind that you are unable to rest while you have Carbuncle out its important to remember that using any Astral Flow attack will automatically drain every last drop of MP you have. Going in and popping Astral Flow from the start can be a dangerous business since it only takes a single resist to leave you completely defenseless.

Carbuncle is not merely your weapon, he is your shield. Without him standing between you and the opponent, you are going to have a rough time. And by rough, I mean you're going to die horribly.

In times like this it is also important to remember that you merely need 44mp to use your Searing Light ability during the level 20 cap fights. With this being the case, that means there is a huge portion of your total MP being wasted by using AF right off the bat (which ties in nicely to my comment about MP still being an important factor above). You have PLENTY of time to defeat the avatar, so why waste it? Use that time to whittle down your opponent's HP through carbuncle's simple melee and make things easier on yourself.

You can easily deal up to 50% damage through melee only before even touching your Astral Flow ability, which means resists are easily survivable. Trying to do it after you've wasted that 200+ mp is very difficult, and would require a lot of medicines, which makes a relatively cheap fight quite expensive. Don't forget there are 6 of these fights - save some cash for later.

'Nuff said.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2006 1:52pm by Crystan
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#345 Nov 24 2006 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Hi!

I just dinged smn 20 last night, and I've done two mini-forks so far (Ramuh and Shiva) Ramuh barely beat me due to thunderspark paralysis nerfing my first searing light Shiva went down despite some amateurishly only bringing one yag drink and two ethers and running out of mp.

Despite having whm leveled to 52 I've decided to use /blu. The theory here is cocoon (150% def) metallic body and stat boosts to hp and vit were better than banish and a couple bar spells.

My question is am I making it harder on myself, or is this sub a legitimate strategy? Bear in mind I've been able to get prot II or III and shell II from passersby (which makes cocoon even more awesome). Your thoughts?
#346 Nov 25 2006 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
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2,976 posts
Quote:
My question is am I making it harder on myself, or is this sub a legitimate strategy?
Definetely a legitimate strategy, but the loss of barspells could hurt you a little if you get hit by a stray spell (Fire II hurts :p). Subbing Blue Mage gives you access to healing skills, which at that level are identical in power, as well as defensive spells and (importantly) Metallic Body for a Stoneskin effect. Granted these abilities are nowhere near powerful to save you from death full-time, but it will help immensely.

A SMN/BLU has just as much chance as a SMN/WHM, so if thats the sub you're comfortable with, then go for it. You won't have any more trouble than you would subbing WHM.
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R.I.P. Crystan FFXI
75WHM 75SCH 75RDM 75SMN
#347 Nov 25 2006 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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600 posts
Actually, yes...you only need rank 2 fame for the "mini-trial: trial by elements" battles. I had never been to Windurst before, i did a few quests, spoke to the fame representative, and it gave me the "rank 2 fame statement" from the NPC listed here on Allakhazam and other sites. I did Windurst first because i wanted Ramuh and Ifrit first. Then i tried Shiva, Titan, and Garuda. Rank 2 fame. It worked fine. I also bumped my fame in Bastok/Sandoria up to Rank 9 Fame (Hero) because i wanted to complete the greedalox gobbie bag quests, as well as be eligable for the Prime battles that friends were going to take me along with.

So yes, it's rank 2 fame in any city, no matter where you are from. *this* is proof ^^ Email me and i'll post my fame level and me casting a summon from that city.
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Quote:
Hadasui readies JP-button.
Hadasui gains the effect of OMFGWTF.
Hadasui obtains: A Pwn Katana +1.
Perce : U want 2 pT?
Hadasui : JPONRY!

♠ ´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·` (¸Hadasui:SMN75·PLD75·DRG67♠ ´¨)
#348 Nov 28 2006 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
23 posts
only change I would make is I found that + eva gear was also helpful. a miss is like nothing on earth, when trying to get carby out.
all and all great guide.
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