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I bought an AMD card, idk whyFollow

#1 Jun 14 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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...and it keeps forcing a hard reset, shortly after booting, and about an hour thereafter. I installed it first using the supplied disc, and then when this started happening, I downloaded lolcatalyst, which didn't help, and took up lots of ram.

The card is an Asus made AMD HD 5450.
The operating system is Windows XP professional 32 bit.
2x1gb running in dual channel.
The processor is an Intel Pentium D 2.8ghz, running on two threads. Idek. It appears in Task manager as two, although I'm fairly certain there's only one.
The PC has a 946gz integrated graphics solution, which doesn't suffer from those problems, runs Ffxi with some lag, but hasn't ever crashed.
The motherboard is an Asus P5B TMX GB SI.
The PC had two huge fans, facing the processor with it's own vent, and one in the regular place.
I call it: Rolf.

I don't use it for anything other than Ffxi or MSPinball. It can't possibly be being worked to death.

The card's past it's return date. Am I screwed?

Edited, Jun 14th 2013 5:28pm by Demoncard

Edited, Jun 14th 2013 5:29pm by Demoncard
#2 Jun 14 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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I can't say for certain, but my guess is that your power supply isn't able to push enough power to run the new card.
#3 Jun 14 2013 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I'd be leaning towards power supply but that particular card only requires a 400 watt PSU, It is possible you are still underwatted if this was a dell or an HP computer you are upgrading, but thats not necessarily the most likely scenario in this case given how little wattage that card draws. I'd check and see if you got a cable lodged in the video card fan itself when you installed it, no fan at idle would tend to overheat the card after around 30 minutes even with large case fans. Also check the CPU fan, etc. If its not that, it could be driver related. Check intel.com for a driver update for that integrated intel card. Even if you aren't using it, it's still present in the system resources and could be conflicting. I'd check the same thing for the other drivers while you are at it.

The next step if that doesn't do the trick, will be to check event viewer (controll panel, administrative tools, event viewer) under system and application to see if there are any crashes or errors reported before the machine crashes in the logs. Also download and check bluescreenview and see if there are any hardware related BSOD's http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

The other possibility of what is going on here, is you may be hitting the ram limits of a 32 bit operating system. If you have the 1GB ram variant of the 5450, and you have 4GB ram inside your computer, your computer can't access and address all of its ram, and those addresses include the video card ram pool to a certain degree. Windows XP alone can only utilize 3.3GB worth of system ram. With a video card under 512MB, the amount of used ram addresses doesn't really detract from that 3.3GB pool. When you exceed 512MB though, the card memory starts requireing the same addresses that the system memory needs, so you can end up with only 2.5-2.8GB usable system ram. Couple that with a few running programs in the background, whatever the Intel video card has locked up and used, etc, and you could literally just be running out of available ram. Check task Manager and see if your ram and CPU utilization is constantly up pretty high.

Either way, you really should get a new computer. A pentium D is technically dual core, but they are sloooooowwwwwwww. Even a core 2 processor is at a minimum twice as fast. Going with a minimal cost overall upgrade would dramatically speed up your computer and allow you to use more than 4GB ram. You may not be able to use windows 7 with that particular computer by the way, thats one of the motherboards that need a bios update (if they made one) for the windows 7 genuine advantage licensing module to function correctly, same with the P5lD2
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#5 Jun 15 2013 at 4:10 AM Rating: Good
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The most recent BSOD reads: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON PAGED_AREA, and three system files are highlighted pink (aswsnx.sys,fltmgr.sys and ntoskrnl.exe) and underneath those are a bunch of other drivers.

The drivers are up to date.

Edited, Jun 15th 2013 6:37am by Demoncard
#6 Jun 15 2013 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demoncard wrote:
aswsnx.sys,fltmgr.sys and ntoskrnl.exe

Those are connected to Avast Antivirus, your drivers and your memory respectively.

I would check your memory for faults
Uninstall your video card drivers (including obsolete drivers from previous cards, either AMD or Nvidia) and reinstall the new drivers from scratch.
Try turning off Avast (maybe run a different antivirus if you're worried or just don't surf around while testing)

And see if any of those help. Also, knowing how many watts your PSU is may help. Was this an off the shelf computer or something you built? If it's off the shelf, can you give the whole model name/number so people can look up its specs (ex. "Dell Inspiron 4840")?
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#7 Jun 16 2013 at 3:57 AM Rating: Good
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I've no idea. My dad was given the PC for free, and it has no stickers/markings besides that "lollolgenuinewinxppro" sticker.

I'll try those now.
#8 Jun 16 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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Didn't work. Still crashes.
#9 Jun 16 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm back to suspecting the power supply. Can't really rule that out without some more information on it.
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#10 Jun 17 2013 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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This time, it crashed without a blue screen; the sound began to loop, then the display lagged, and then it made a whirring sound and crashed. Still works perfectly fine with the onboard graphics.

Is there any other information I could give you that would help?
#11 Jun 17 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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The wattage of your PSU? Smiley: grin
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#12 Jun 17 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Open the case side panel. the power supply is a large square box usually, but not always, near the top rear of the case. it will be the thing that the power cable from the wall plugs into. On the side of that box there should be a label with power supply type information. Please read that off for us.

ALso download and install speedfan from http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php and check your hard disk drive for faults under the S.M.A.R.T. tab. THis could jsut be coincedental failure, maybe the drive got banged around enough to affect the bearing when the card was installed, etc. Might be worth checking anyways. You might also be able to see your system voltages from there.
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#13 Jun 18 2013 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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HEC-250 AR-PTF
AC input: 250 vac 50hz 7A fuse rating T4AH 250v
+5v& +3.3v combined 165w total output 250w

I checked the disk for faults already, came up clean, save the fact that it hung at 82~% when checking free disk space.

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 8:14am by Demoncard

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 8:18am by Demoncard
#14 Jun 18 2013 at 6:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demoncard wrote:
HEC-250 AR-PTF
AC input: 250 vac 50hz 7A fuse rating T4AH 250v
+5v& +3.3v combined 165w total output 250w

I think we found your problem.

You have a very weak PSU. It's not uncommon in business class machines that are designed to run spreadsheets and Outlook, not play games or, much less, support extra hardware. The AMD recommends a 400W or greater power supply for your card. There really wasn't any card you could buy that would run on that power supply that wasn't an antique. You'll need to upgrade the PSU to use the (or any) card.

Before you run out and buy a new PSU, you'll need to make sure it's compatible with your case and motherboard. I'll let someone else walk you through that or you might want to just cut your losses and start saving for a more modern system.

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 7:50am by Jophiel
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#15 Jun 18 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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That motherboard takes a 24 pin main power lead, and a 4 pin core voltage lead, so assuming the case is a standard case, which it may very well not be given that wattage, a standard power supply "should" work. Please measure the size of the existing power supply (length width depth) and post that here and we can find you one that will fit. Probably.

It will likely be this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171038
Swapping a power supply out is a pain, but its usually not very complicated. You'll want to take a picture of the inside of the case and post it here, then we can make sure the new power supply has the proper connectors required for operation. Chances are you are going to need more older style 4 pin molex power leads thana newer computer might.
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#16 Jun 18 2013 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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It's 14cm x 15cm x 9cm.

How much would a new power supply cost me? Also, would it be worth trying to return the card under that pretence and getting an Nvidia 4-- something card for another £5?

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 10:43am by Demoncard
#17 Jun 18 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can try returning the card although I assume most places would say the onus to make sure it's compatible rests with you. Especially if you've held on to it past the return date.

I'd assume $50+ for a PSU worth owning. Buy a decent one and hopefully you'll be able to use it again whenever you build a new system (assuming you do some day).
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#18 Jun 18 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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It's about three months over the return date, but the guy at the counter said it was compatible with the mobo and the power supply, which should be more than enough to make me eligible for a refund. Then again, I should have known better than to believe him, so maybe it's my fault. I do now, anyway, thanks to you folks.

I was dreading that it would be somewhere between £50 and £100.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x17/fireheart450/sdfsdfsdfs.jpg


Edited, Jun 18th 2013 11:19am by Demoncard
#19 Jun 18 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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$50 is around £30ish. So I'd assume £30-£50 assuming components are equivalently priced in the UK.
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#20 Jun 18 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Demoncard wrote:
It's 14cm x 15cm x 9cm.

How much would a new power supply cost me? Also, would it be worth trying to return the card under that pretence and getting an Nvidia 4-- something card for another £5?

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 10:43am by Demoncard


You act like AMD did something wrong, or made a bad product... Chances are an nVidia card of similar specs will also require a PSU upgrade.
#21 Jun 18 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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With a 250W PSU, anything better than a Voodoo3 card probably would have required a power supply upgrade. AMD had nothing to do with his problem.
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#22 Jun 20 2013 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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Bought a 400w one for £20, installing it now.

The 20 pin connector won't come out, no matter how much force I apply. Wriggling it doesn't seem to make it budge.

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 8:55am by Demoncard

Never mind, it's out.

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 9:08am by Demoncard
#23 Jun 20 2013 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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There is a reason you don't buy the £20 power supplies, especially if your minimum wattage requirement is the same as the maximum output of said power supply. Cheap generaic Asian made power supplies often list Peak wattage as their output level, not average output like Cooler master or Antec or the like. What that means is that the power supply may be capable of reaching 400 watts for short durations of time, but it will likely not output the required voltage for a sustainable amount of time, meaning you may very well still have the same issue.

Always go at least 150 watts over what your minimum power threashhold requirements are. That way if you get a crap one, your computer will still work. Maybe you will get lucky in this instance though.
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#24 Jun 20 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Let us know if the PSU worked. I'm curious to see if that was the solution.
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#26 Jul 27 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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I might have misled you. The exact model of the card is EAH 5450, and according to google, it uses between 14 and 20w. The psu didn't resolve the problem. After installing windows 7 and the latest catalyst centre, the crash changed from being a hard reset to hanging with a static-esque screen with colours taken from whatever was on the screen before. No discernable change in time needed to crash.

I'm guessing (hoping) it's caused by using the latest amd drivers, instead of the Asus driver that came with the CD. I must apologize for responding so late, I'd all but given up on the card.

Edited, Jul 27th 2013 7:13pm by Demoncard
#27 Jul 27 2013 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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The screen you describe is almost always hardware failure induced graphic artifacts. As that one doesn't even have a fan apperently, it's possible the heat sync decoupled fromt he GPU during installation, but you're probably realistically looking at a new video card. You'll also want to take a hard look at your case ventalation too at that point, since it would appear to me that you may have cooked the video card. If you don't have at least 2 120mm fans, one intake, one exhaust, buy a new case too. XP doesn't use the 3D accelerator at the desktop level, Windows 7 does, so you wouldn't have seen the same thing until you entered a game in XP. It is theoretically possible it's a driver causing that, but if it was having problems in XP and it is having problems in a clean stock windows 7 load, I'm calling it video card failure. You could try pulling it and sticking it in a known good system to verify, but for that particular card, you would be better off scrapping it and upgrading anyways rather than wasting more time on trying to fix what is really a very bad video card anyways. Thats my reccommendation anyways
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#28 Jul 28 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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Bad relative to every other card on the market, superb compared to whatever the heck was in my old windows 98. Were I to use it for newer games, I'd most likely put it in a blender out of frustration.

I cleaned the PC of amd drivers, and installing the Asus drivers seems to have fixed it.
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