Ares vs heca legs for WS??Follow

So, generally these days, i know enough to setup my own gear, but there is 1 spot that has befuddled me. However I didnt think it was really a problem considering i never really thought id GET Nlegs, but I am now the proud owner of self crafted Heca sub+1.

Anyway, so Im in a nice efficient salvage group and were spamming SSR for the forseeable future till we get all our drops and move on, meaning sooner or later I will have ares legs.
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So a few questions.

1. How many times can a 2handed WS trigger DA? Two is in my mind but i dont remember where i heard it. (And is it 1st 2 hits, or can it proc on every hit with a max of 2)

I can do the calcs to compare them myself if i get the answer to #1 for penta/drakes etc.

2. Wheeling thrust however.... Heca Sub+1 or Ares legs....I have no idea due to the unkown amount of Def ignored. 6str 2% DA vs a whopping 22 attack. (ignoring dex for wheeling).

Really stumped on wheeling since i have no idea how to begin without massive amounts of very difficult testing on high level mobs.

i'm fairly sure it's been proven that you can only DA twice on any WS (the first hit and the second hit, for h2h, dual wield, and 2h weapons, but of course you can't DA twice on a 1hit WS). as for whether you can DA on the first 2 hits or on any 2 hits, i believe it's 1st 2 hits (since the testing used projected amount of DA to prove you can only DA twice), but i'm not sure. honestly, though the chance to DA on each hit would up your chances of getting a DA, it would be statistically insignificant regarding gear comparison.

the STR wins for wheeling.

No. Double attack can only proc once or twice during a weapon skill.

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 8:42pm by KaishenRamuh

Either way, the chances of getting 3 DAs on a 3+ hit WS are so ridiculously low that it's hardly worth considering anyway.

true, though it matters whether you can only DA on the first 2 swings or not.

i've written 2 versions of the explanation post for this, but deleted them both because they were winding and confusing. if someone else can concisely explain why it matters whether you can DA only on the first 2 hits of drakesbane or all 4 (even if there's a cap at 2 DAs), please do. i'll throw in the hint that it matters than the odds of DAing twice in a row with 5% DA are miniscule, so being only able to DA on the first two hits cuts the benefits of DA on drakesbane roughly in half. i think.

p.s. sorry if this double posts. i posted it maybe 20 min ago and it didn't show up.

Personally, I would use Ares' for Drakesbane in merits, as well as on Wheeling thrust on HNM. I would use Heca legs for Drakesbane on HNM. My humble opinion.

edit: and Heca on lolPenta as well.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 9:14pm by Palides

Thanks guys. I was leaning with ares on Wheeling, but i dont like not "knowing" for sure. And as luck would have it, I got 35 legs just Friday, (still need 25) so I will actually have the luxury of this conundrum in the very real future.



DA on WS all carry the stat mods, but do NOT keep the FTP. So a DA gekko or wheeling wont do "double" damage as they have higher than 1.0 FTP. So gorgets also wont affect DA damage (aside from acc). So a DA on Drakes on any hit would just be another 50% str mod hit just the same as a DA on wheeling. (though extra hits DO maintain the WS properties. Wheeling DA keeps the ignore Def. Drakes DA can crit. Mandalic stab Triples keep the Atk bonus etc)

That said, I have now re-tooled my damage spreadsheets significantly for WS calcs today. Added DA (up to 2 on 1st 2 hits) and significantly streamlined the formulas to be about half as long xD. I had been kinda patching them as I learned new things, so i just took them back to basics. So much simpler to read now /joy.

Anyway, I just have a normal atk/def calc for wheeling as I dont know wtf to do with it. But even in that scenario, Ares legs beat Heca+1 now that I account for potential DA on it for me (my gear/Gcolibri/results may vary/blah blah disclaimer). Toss in any ignore-def and it only gets better for ares. Thanks for the pointers. Now i "know" its better. (before I accounted for DA, the atk on heca beat the str using normal atk/def. I figured it would swap with ignored def, but didnt know how much etc. didnt like the uncertainty)

Also,


If my updated calcs are right, i must disagree with this. My Heca beats out ares on drakes until around 1.9 Pdif, then its EVEN. The additional 2-3 acc and monstrous 22 atk seems to really just be that good. I suppose if you had TERRIBLE str, capped acc and using love halberd or something so your base damage per hit was really low, the str from ares would be a bigger % increase relative to the atk which would drop the Pdif where ares takes over lower, but thats kinda silly. Penta its no contest unless acc and atk are capped.

Thanks for helping me find the answers I was looking for ^_^

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 6:05am by Banalaty

double post

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 7:55pm by moffatt

Sorry, I dont understand, can you say that again? I don't see how they can prove at all if there's 2 DA procs that one HAS to be the first hit.
I'm not arguing against "you can't DA more than twice", I'm arguing against "You can't DA twice on the extra hits of the WS. one has to be on the first hit".

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 2:21am by Noodles

Ok, I think I get you now. So if you could WS twice on hits 2-6 then you'd get more double [DA-proc WSs][Total hits landed] per sample size than we get.

That right?