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#252 Jul 06 2008 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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That whole couse arguement is just for asthetics. What you want to look for is the damage and delay. Stay away from low damage low delay, and stick with high damage high delay.

By this comparrison. Obviously colossal is king with 88dmg 492 delay. But the level 70 alternatives, engetsuto is definitely good.

Bourdonasse:
84 dmg 478 delay

Engetsuto:
85 dmg 480 delay 2 acc, 1 storeTP

Colossal Lance:
88 dmg 492 delay 3 str 5 vit.
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#253 Jul 07 2008 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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What should I be wearing in my Legs slot around 53? I think I have a pretty good grasp on all the other slots until the mid-60's, but I don't know what to put on my legs besides Republic Subligar.

Also, should I use Empress Hairpin or Walkure Mask for tp/ws?
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#254 Jul 07 2008 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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wadus wrote:
What should I be wearing in my Legs slot around 53? I think I have a pretty good grasp on all the other slots until the mid-60's, but I don't know what to put on my legs besides Republic Subligar.

Also, should I use Empress Hairpin or Walkure Mask for tp/ws?


Republigar are the best option until Feral/Tiger, sadly. Crow/Raven Hose are a decent option as well, although I stuck with the subligar.

Walkure for TP/WS.

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 8:57am by Solrain
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#255 Jul 23 2008 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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So I got 75 DRG a few years back but retired my gear to pursue Summoner and Corsair. Well, I recently got some items that made me want to play Dragoon a little more then a "Unlock DRG" job again. So what I have to work with is things I didn't sell or had an idea they were pretty good when I got. Money making isn't a real problem so if there is something good, it's probably not out of reach. While I did see the equip guide in the sticky, I'd like to know whats personal opinion now. Anyway I have a couple lol pieces that I'll make a note of, it just happened to be convenient piece to use.

Weapon- Thalassocrat/Love Halberd
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Angon/Virture Stones
Head: O-Hat, Walmart Turban
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Brutal + Ethereal
Body- Homam Corazza
Hands- Pallas or Homam
Rings- Raja and Ulthalam's
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- lolCrimson Greaves
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt

Comments:
I've received mixed opinions about the above two options and Wyvern. Some lolWyvern(the +5 STR head thing) and some praise it, is this more a macro thing now, when I stopped OHat was end all be all so yeah.
Ammo- I'm Elvaan in situations where Love isn't useful(don't want to spam TP gain I guess) I'm looking at the +2 STR sachet or a Tiphia Sting and macro angon in/out.
Feet- It'll be about a month before we go back to Omega, have roughly 1k Mamool Ja points so not sure if I would be able to get Amir before another chance at Homam. So if theres a good stand in till I can gain some Mamool points I'd like to know.
Waist- I'm not in the Dynamis scene atm so Wyrm Belt isn't an option really.
Hands- More left over gear + my new Homam, would Tarasque+1 be better till I have more haste options?

Any advice would be appreciated, but in mind it was only a few weeks ago I really got back into this I haven't paid alot of attention to what would be needed and whats ideal so advice would be great.
#256 Jul 23 2008 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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vasathealchemist wrote:
Weapon- Thalassocrat/Love Halberd
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Angon/Virture Stones
Head: O-Hat, Walmart Turban
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Brutal + Ethereal
Body- Homam Corazza
Hands- Pallas or Homam
Rings- Raja and Ulthalam's
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- lolCrimson Greaves
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt


Most of this seems to be fine. If you're not using love halberd, melee with a Smart Grenade or Tiphia Sting, Angons can always be swapped back in when you need them.

Ethereal is a stellar /mage piece, but assault earring is better if you're just in a normal DD setup.

TP in Homam hands, Pallas' isn't exactly the greatest for Penta. The DEX- hurts your accuracy and base damage, as DEX is a 20% mod. Work towards AF+1 gloves if you can, or hecatomb. Pallas' are ok for Wheeling Thrust though.

vasathealchemist wrote:
Hands- More left over gear + my new Homam, would Tarasque+1 be better till I have more haste options?


I actually just made a post about this in the BST forum (ew), but yes, 8% haste is superior than o.hat/tarasque+1 assuming you have at least 72% accuracy. Actually, it's even less, because the actual comparison was o.hat/tarasque+1 versus turban/dusk, and homam is even better than dusk.

The feet definitely need to be replaced, Amir Boots are a very solid piece, shouldn't take too long to get through assaults. Also, don't TP in Warwolf. It's ok for penta, but a Swift Belt would be a much better TP item. The NMs are not hard, a balanced pt should have no trouble with any of the races (the tarutaru was nerfed so it's much more manageable now).

Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 4:49pm by bsphil
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#257 Jul 23 2008 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I had heard good things of the AF hands so heres hoping in our 3 week temenos adventure the Cobalt Sheet(I think drops) I have 1/2 the ABCs and 1/2 the materials so its not impossible.

Earring- Does assault earring beat out Fowling, I've seen that mentioned alot on the forums, or is that a WS swap piece?

Belt- Yeah we do fairly regular Swift runs, if nothing else I'll prolly get a Codex and adventure into a pickup group.

Shoes- I was looking at Aurum from ZNM, are they worth it till Amir/Homam? I have alot of days where I can log on for only 20-30mins so I may start taking more pictures.
#258 Jul 23 2008 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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vasathealchemist wrote:
I had heard good things of the AF hands so heres hoping in our 3 week temenos adventure the Cobalt Sheet(I think drops) I have 1/2 the ABCs and 1/2 the materials so its not impossible.

Earring- Does assault earring beat out Fowling, I've seen that mentioned alot on the forums, or is that a WS swap piece?

Belt- Yeah we do fairly regular Swift runs, if nothing else I'll prolly get a Codex and adventure into a pickup group.

Shoes- I was looking at Aurum from ZNM, are they worth it till Amir/Homam? I have alot of days where I can log on for only 20-30mins so I may start taking more pictures.


Earring- Yes, assault is better. For WS and TP. Fowling would beat out a normal attack+5 earring though.

Belt- Awesome.

Shoes- If you can get Aurum, by all means go for it. One more accuracy and 2% haste over amir, a very solid piece.
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#259 Jul 23 2008 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I am 60 drg and was wondering what gear pieces I should upgrade, also what I could/should macro in for penta. This is my first job to 75 and I like to have at least decent gear.

D. mez- (friend lent it to me, free wins)
mythril grip +1
Smart Grenade(should i get Tiphia?)
Walkure Mask
Chiv. Chain
Fang earing x2
Scorpion Harness
Level 50 gigas bracelets(farming for spiked finger gauntlets atm)
Woodsman and Ecphoira(spelling?)
earth mantle( ammement mantle+1 at 61)
life belt
pub sub
Tabin +1(will macro af once i complete it)

Should I macro in some str for penta? I think me gear is decent but i would like to some different opinions on what i should change.

Thanks in advance.
#260 Jul 23 2008 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Salgura wrote:
I am 60 drg and was wondering what gear pieces I should upgrade, also what I could/should macro in for penta. This is my first job to 75 and I like to have at least decent gear.

D. mez- (friend lent it to me, free wins)
mythril grip +1
Smart Grenade(should i get Tiphia?)
Walkure Mask
Chiv. Chain
Fang earing x2
Scorpion Harness
Level 50 gigas bracelets(farming for spiked finger gauntlets atm)
Woodsman and Ecphoira(spelling?)
earth mantle( ammement mantle+1 at 61)
life belt
pub sub
Tabin +1(will macro af once i complete it)

Should I macro in some str for penta? I think me gear is decent but i would like to some different opinions on what i should change.

Thanks in advance.


all very good. if your ACC isn't capped (which it probably isn't if you're eating meat at that level, which i think you should be with your gear), i wouldn't change anything for penta thrust yet. also, tiphia probably better than smart grenade for now, but only if it's pretty cheap.

the only real big upgrades i can see are:

1) pole grip instead of mythril+1. should be cheap on your server now (is on mine). definitely get this asap.

2) assault earring.

3) PCC over c.chain. you'll end up with so much ACC later on that as a 1job DRG i don't think PCC is worth farming for for you.

4) SFG like you said, probably the best use of gil you can find. sell back and "downgrade" to NQ tarasque if they're significantly cheaper than HQ. 2ATT isn't worth a ton of gil, at least not to me.

GKL is better than dark mezraq, but they're close enough that i wouldn't worry about it. i've been telling people that GKL > DM on these forums for a long time (b/c the math states pretty clearly that it is), but i used DM simply b/c it looked cooler (and b/c the math also states pretty clearly that the difference is small).
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#261 Jul 24 2008 at 5:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks milich, I am going to get an assault like you said, I probably wont get a pcc until im 75 ( be perfect for my up and coming sam). On the gkl vs dm thing, yeah gkl is better, but friend lent me his dm lol.

On a side note, I tried eating meat vs lesser colibire(spelling?) and I was only landing 3-4 hits on penta, with the occasional 5, is this ok?


Thanks for the help.


p.s. If I eat meat what should I eat, same friend that gave dm cooks me subs and hedgehog pies, are pies overkill for my level?

Edited, Jul 24th 2008 9:11am by Salgura
#262 Jul 24 2008 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent


Hey Milich,
I've noticed you recommend the use of Pole Strap over Mythril+1.
I am assuming this is as /war and stacked with other +DA pieces. Or will this proc with /sam as well?



Thanks,

Raff
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#263 Jul 24 2008 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pole strap always, with or without /war, with or without additional double attack gear.
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#264 Jul 24 2008 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Raffhouse wrote:


Hey Milich,
I've noticed you recommend the use of Pole Strap over Mythril+1.
I am assuming this is as /war and stacked with other +DA pieces. Or will this proc with /sam as well?



Thanks,

Raff


it procs with /SAM. brutal earring is the same. they allow jobs that normally can't DA to DA.

notably, DA doesn't get more potent when stacked. it's better to stack double attack than not to, because it stays potent enough to be worth stacking (though that doesn't mean askar body is better than, say, homam--depends on your ACC--or ares--askar is never better than ares), but 1% DA doesn't get better when added to 20% instead of 0% (like haste does), it actually gets worse in terms of % DoT improvement (as explained in the thread i linked to).

Quote:
On a side note, I tried eating meat vs lesser colibire(spelling?) and I was only landing 3-4 hits on penta, with the occasional 5, is this ok?


Thanks for the help.


p.s. If I eat meat what should I eat, same friend that gave dm cooks me subs and hedgehog pies, are pies overkill for my level?


honestly, i don't know offhand how evasive colibri at that level are and how much ACC you'll have at any given moment;;; (changes as you level of course). my best guess is you're fine with meat, ie hitting above 80% (some people like 85% as a meat/sushi cut-off). notably, 85% hit rate means 44% chance of hitting all 5 hits. 85% is still fine, but multihit WS don't usually land all hits. that's just how probability works:), 85% chance of a hit means .85*.85 = 72.25% of hitting 2 hits in a row, .85*.85*.85 = 61.4% chance of hitting 3 hits in a row, etc--which is why an 85% chance of landing a hit plays out as an 85% hit rate, in fact (because the chances of it not doing so over time become very very small).

sorry for the probability tutorial, but i see a lot of people saying "i need more ACC for multihit WS because with X% (say 85%) hit rate, i only have Y% (say 44%) chance of landing all 5 penta thrust hits." i agree that ACC should be added to multihit WS to make sure you land as many hits as you can (though i think gear should be chosen for whether or not it provides the largest DoT% bonus, which ACC might, might not). however, some people take the quoted sentence to mean: "i have 95% ACC (capped), but a 77.3% chance of landing all hits of pentathrust--not good enough, MUST HAVE MORE ACC!!!" but you CAN'T have more ACC. 77.3% just is as good as you can do regarding landing all hits of penta. capped ACC yields that; it doesn't make you "need more ACC", it just limits how many 5-hit pentas you can get.

anyway, back on topic;;. i use coeurl subs for non-special occasions (and would @ 60), but use red curry (or rabbit pie, which i haven't had a chance to use yet but would) for special occasions.

hedgehog pie is weird. its 5ACC is definitely nice, but if your ATT is below 400, you end up getting less ATT from it than coeurl sub (coeurl sub raises ATT by 20%, capping at +80ATT @ 400ATT, while h.pie gives ATT+18%, capping at 90 @ 500ATT). so, say you start @400ATT. you get 80ATT from coeurl sub, 72ATT 5ACC from h.pie. h.pie is still actually better (unless you cap ACC), but its betterness gets cut into.

another weird thing about h.pie is that no matter how much ATT or ACC you have (even at low hit rates), red curry is always better than hedgehog pie. red curry is probably twice as expensive, but if you're worried about cost, why not eat coeurl subs? there's just no place for hedgehog pie (unless you craft a lot of it for yourself, cheap).

ironically, the last thing i bought off AH was hedgehog pie;;;;. they were out of coeurl subs, so i decided to eat a sanction-enhanced 6-hour hedgehog pie for assaults.

wow this post takes a lot of words to say "coeurl subs [oh, and meat mithkabobs if the mob is going to take your food], red curry/rabbit pie, no reason to eat hedgehog pie unless you have a source for it cheap". ah well.

Edited, Jul 24th 2008 3:53pm by milich
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#265 Jul 24 2008 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you milich, your posts have been a great help to me!

I get subs and pies for free, awesome ls leader, so next pt I get into( gonna be a while, sam sub just hit 33, okote time lol) I will test sushi vs meat for me.

Once again, thanks for the help!
#266 Jul 25 2008 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Salgura wrote:
next pt I get into( gonna be a while, sam sub just hit 33, okote time lol) I will test sushi vs meat for me.


EDIT: Derp, was just reading the SAM forum before, and I've been drinking a tad, so this quote was actually in reference to you leveling DRG/SAM once you get SAM leveled, and not about leveling SAM33. orz Well this still applies to people so I'll leave it there.

The sushi/meat 80% rule generally doesn't work at lower levels. You probably won't even hit 80% accuracy WITH sushi. It's just the nature of the game, accuracy sucks at low levels. Go with meat.

Better yet, go with Rice Dumplings.

Note:

SAM33 has a cap of 102 GKT skill. I'll assume say, 36 DEX. It's somewhere around there, the chart I usually look up is down right now.

Accuracy = floor(102 + floor(36 * .75) + (+10 [PCC, I'll be generous]) + (+10 [Hasso])) = 149 Accuracy

Sole sushi would add

DEX+6 = +4 acc.
Accuracy+15% = +22 acc.
----------------------
Acc+26

Hit rate +13%

Which is about a 20% boost (assume a sh*tty hit rate around 60%, which is actually pretty decent for that level), however, the attack alone from rice dumplings is also a 20% boost, and that's not counting the 2.5% hit rate increase as well.




Edited, Jul 25th 2008 10:38pm by bsphil
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#267 Jul 26 2008 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Salgura wrote:
next pt I get into( gonna be a while, sam sub just hit 33, okote time lol) I will test sushi vs meat for me.


EDIT: Derp, was just reading the SAM forum before, and I've been drinking a tad, so this quote was actually in reference to you leveling DRG/SAM once you get SAM leveled, and not about leveling SAM33. orz Well this still applies to people so I'll leave it there.

The sushi/meat 80% rule generally doesn't work at lower levels. You probably won't even hit 80% accuracy WITH sushi. It's just the nature of the game, accuracy sucks at low levels. Go with meat.

Better yet, go with Rice Dumplings.

Note:

SAM33 has a cap of 102 GKT skill. I'll assume say, 36 DEX. It's somewhere around there, the chart I usually look up is down right now.

Accuracy = floor(102 + floor(36 * .75) + (+10 [PCC, I'll be generous]) + (+10 [Hasso])) = 149 Accuracy

Sole sushi would add

DEX+6 = +4 acc.
Accuracy+15% = +22 acc.
----------------------
Acc+26

Hit rate +13%

Which is about a 20% boost (assume a sh*tty hit rate around 60%, which is actually pretty decent for that level), however, the attack alone from rice dumplings is also a 20% boost, and that's not counting the 2.5% hit rate increase as well.




Edited, Jul 25th 2008 10:38pm by bsphil


i am also drunk, and i approve of this message. though it was also obvious to me that salgura was talking about a sam sub.

but the reason you don't use sushi at low levels is simple and twofold:

1) your ACC is so low that the +% ACC doesn't add very much ACC (remember that 1ACC adds .5ACC%, regardless of how much ACC you have or the mob's level or whatever).

2) your ATT is so low that the +ATT you get from meat or rice dumplings (just like the +ATT you get from mighty rings, /glare) is way more potent than the +ACC you get from sushi (remember, ATT figures into the dmg equations as ATT/DEF- level correction).

yo.
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#268 Jul 26 2008 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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milich wrote:
your ATT is so low that the +ATT you get from meat or rice dumplings (just like the +ATT you get from mighty rings, /glare) is way more potent than the +ACC you get


Fukken signed.

This is why Optical Earring is trash, why legionnaire's mittens are superior to Battle Gloves, why Mighty Rings own so much face, and so on at low levels.



Edited, Jul 26th 2008 9:58am by bsphil
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#269 Jul 27 2008 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Ive been thinking of quitting lately and if I do I was going to upgrade a real life friend's DRG and BRD gear. I dont know a whole lot about DRG, and wont claim to, so I figured Id ask you guys for some advice.

Keep in mind he does not have an HNM ls or Sea (hes barely into CoP missions)

TP:
Main: Thalassocrat
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Sting/Angon
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Peacock Charm
Ear1: Assault
Ear2: Fowling? Merman?
Body: Assault Jerkin or P. Body?
Hands: Dusk Gloves
Ring1: Woodsman
Ring2: Sniper
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Swordbelt +1
Legs: Dusk Trousers
Feet: Dusk Ledelsens

WS:

Main: Thal
Sub: Pole
Ammo: Sting
Head: Wyvern Helm
Neck: Peacock Charm
Ear1: Assault
Ear2: Merman/Fowling
Body: AJ
Hands: Tarasque +1?
Ring1: Ruby/Flame
Ring2: Ruby/Flame
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Warwolf
Legs: Dusk Trousers
Feet: Rutter Sabatons

Doies this seem reasonable? Anything Rare/ex that Ive mentioned he already has.

Any help on buyable gear appreciated.
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#270 Jul 27 2008 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Don't use those STR rings on WS. Stick to accuracy.

Also, you need a lot of haste to make dusk ledelsens worth using. Specifically, more than 38%. If not, Amir Boots are better.

Edited, Jul 27th 2008 2:47pm by bsphil
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#271 Jul 27 2008 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Well considering I cant buy him Amir Boots he's going to have to settle for Dusk.
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#272 Jul 27 2008 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Tokitoki wrote:
Well considering I cant buy him Amir Boots he's going to have to settle for Dusk.


I didn't know if he had them or not already. Should still be getting them regardless.
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Almalieque wrote:
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#273 Jul 27 2008 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Tokitoki wrote:
Well considering I cant buy him Amir Boots he's going to have to settle for Dusk.


I didn't know if he had them or not already. Should still be getting them regardless.

I think he is actually because hes always asking me to help him do mamool assault.
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#274 Jul 27 2008 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Weapon- Dreizack
Grip- Pole Grip
Ammo- Tiphia Sting
Head: O-Hat
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Fowling/Assault Earring
Body- AJ
Hands- Duskgloves /Tarasque+1
Rings- Ruby/Ulthalam's
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- Barone gambieras
Back- Psilos
Waist- Warwolf Belt

Currently I don't have sea access or beat DM. This was originally ATK set with the use of sushi. Most of these gears were originally posted in guides and things of that matter (not including the one on the front page.

Currently working on getting dusk ledsens/Amir boots and forgers' mantle


Edited, Jul 28th 2008 1:13am by Keitaroux
#275 Jul 27 2008 at 11:18 PM Rating: Default
TP Gear
Thalassocrat
Pole Strap
Tiphia's Sting
Walhra Turban
Chiv Chain
Ethereal/Brutal
Askar Korazin
Drachen Fing. Gaunt+1(dont have homam yet but the added acc boost helps my wyvern immensly in exp,especially with empathy'd minuet/haste/berserk and double att from wyrm mail)
Raja/Ulth.Ring
Forager's Mantle
Swift Belt
Conte Cosciales
Homam Gamberias

WS Gear
Thalassocrat
Pole Strap
Tiphia's Sting
Hecatomb Cap
Shadow/Light Gorget
Bushinomimi/Brutal Earring
Hecatomb Harness
Alkyoneous(WT/Skewer)/Hecatomb Gloves(Penta)
Raja/Flame Ring
Forager's Mantle
Warwolf Belt
Conte Cosciales
Hecatomb Leggings
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#276 Aug 04 2008 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
I have been looking everywhere and asking everyone I know, and can't seem to find an answer. So here I am, asking the experts.

I was in a party in Caedarva Mire yesterday (Level 66), and I seem to be having a lot of trouble hitting the numbers that are expected of Dragoon. Everyone tells me that Imps are weak to piercing, and DRG pwns them. So why am I not hitting these numbers? Below I have a list of what I wear in a pt. Most of the DRG I see xp in AF hands, helm, and feet, but I have what I "thought" was better gear in those slots. Could you guys take a look at my setup and tell me what I am doing wrong?



3 Polearm Merits
1 STR Merit
1 DEX Merit

(I know, I could spend more time meriting this stuff, but I spent my merits on WHM and PLD abilities instead, and really wanted to level drg after falling in love with it)

Grand Knight's Lance
Mithril Grip +1
Walkure Mask
Chivalrous Chain
Spike Earring
Spike Earring
Jaridah Peti
Custom F Gloves
Garrolous Ring (spelling?)
Ecphoria Ring
Amemet Mantle
Life Belt
Drachen Brais (Have had a hard time getting Feral Trousers on my server)
Marine F boots


Now last night a friend of mine loaned me a SH and a Woodsman ring to see if that would help me, and it really didn't. I did Three WS with the gear listed above, and three wearing the gear that he loaned me, and all of them were under 200 damage. I have been using Wheeling Thrust instead because my Penta numbers are so laughable.

Please, please please tell me what I need to change to hit the numbers I should be hitting. I feel terrible that I can't do the damage that others do, and after looking at all the gear guides I am thoroughly confused because some are outdated, and almost all of the ones I have found have conflicting information.
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#277 Aug 04 2008 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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The problem is that you're level 66 in the mire.

Mire sucks, especially before 71-72ish. 66-71 is a rough patch for every job really, and you're seriously overcamping. Don't expect awesome numbers on those mobs til you pass 73ish.
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#278 Aug 04 2008 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
Really? My party was laughing at me because they said that I should be doing higher numbers on penta. My wheelings were doing 400 and up on them, which admittedly wasn't much either.

Does anyone else have any suggestions for me on boosting this number?

EDIT: the reason I am asking that is not because I disagree or think GalkaBST was incorrect in his assessment. I actually read in one other place during my research that 66 is just on the cusp, and is overcamping (but when I told my party that they all laughed). But if there is anything I can do to improve this number I want to do it. Like I said, the SH and the woodsman ring didn't help, so maybe there is something else?



Edited, Aug 4th 2008 11:02am by TerrainFFXI
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#279 Aug 04 2008 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hi Terrain, not sure why you're having problems. ;x But thought I'd share with you that you can work out how many hits landed when you do Pentathrust by looking at your TP return after you've used the ws. ;x With that lance you're using (nice choice btw :)) you should get 18% TP back after a Pentathrust with all hits landing. It works like this, you should get about 14% tp per normal swing, so: 14+1+1+1+1. ;o So if you get less, you'll have some idea of why, and if you get more you'll know you dbl attacked. :)

Anyway, my apologies if you knew all that. I think Pentathrust really falls over if even one of your hits miss. Are you using sushi? ;x Could maybe try with that. Presumably your polearm skill level is capped? Sorry for not being more helpful. >_<
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#280 Aug 04 2008 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
Skill is capped, plus three merits. I use sole Sushi.

The TP return is something that confuses me. I read somewhere that it's helpful to put an /echo <tp> in my macro so that I can see what TP I get back, but my tp return is all over the place. I sub /sam, I don't know if that helps. But sometimes it was 17, sometimes it was 19, once it was 28 (didn't look like I took a hit, but I guess I could have). I read somewhere that my regular hits with a 492 weapon returned 14 tp, so I tested that on some TW mobs and one hit gave me 15 TP, the next, 16, because I was then left with 31 total TP after two hits. Very confusing, and I am guessing that my /sam sub + the store TP I have on the neck piece and ring were the reason for it?






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#281 Aug 04 2008 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're right that is the reason for that. Sorry, my earlier post was written without taking into account you were using /sam. ;x StoreTP will give you slightly different results, and I think you're getting 15 then 16 because it rounds down the 15.x visually, but will still add it up for the next hit, so to speak, giving the 16 instead of another 15. I think that's right, to be honest I'm not very familiar with all that stuff. :X Just the basics. :]

And hmm, considering you were using that food and your skill is capped and you have merits, that is a bit funky. :x You could still be missing the occasional hit or so, so you could have had a run of bad ws. Or as someone else said, even with all this, maybe the Imps are just bothersome at this lvl. :X I think when I knew accuracy was going to be an issue, I opted for Wheeling Thrust too. It usually always gives consistent dmg, even if it's lower than the potential of what Pentathrust could give you in this scenario.
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#282 Aug 04 2008 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's only one thing you should look into getting if you want to boost those numbers:

Bard ;)

Or... this is what I would do-

Get some acc gear (borrow a SH, an acc ring, w/e) and run out to the staging point. Keep putting stuff on until the imps con low evasion. When you reach that point you know the acc+ you should be aiming for in your gear. Once you get that gear for yourself, party again and eat meat. I'm guessing you'll do much better. As a rule, you should never ever have to eat sushi on dragoon for xp. If you do you either need more acc gear or you're just overcamping (maybe a bit of both in your case, although I still think your level is a bit low for epeen numbers). The two most important things you can do for penta are boost acc and then att. A suitable acc build + meat will do both :).

Don't be discouraged with doing only three WS's in the gear you borrowed, it will (should) do significantly better with meat.

Remember that even with CAPPED accuracy (95%), you're only going to land a full penta (.95^5) around 78% of the time. If you're only at 90% accuracy, you're going to land a full penta 59% of the time. This is a pretty substantial decrease in the ability to get those numbers you're talking about. To go from 90 to 95% accuracy, you need around +15 accuracy (assuming 3 acc for each 1% of hit ratio, although the number at 75 is probably closer to 4 acc for every 1%).

So yeah, a little bit of accuracy can go a long way. Also, get a pole grip- it's easily the best dps grip that exists atm.



Seriously though- I think the most important thing is that the people you're leveling with are full of sh*t :P If they think you should be averaging 1K+ WSs because of a 25% piercing bonus they've been playing around in the merit bird camp too long. Don't feel bad, just tough it out for a few levels and you'll be making them all eat it once you're not forced to overcamp. You could always try setting up a skillchain and working light with wheeling thrust- that's an easy way to double your damage output :)

Edit: Ps. Those imps are level 78-81. It doesn't matter that they have low HP, those imps are 12-15 level above you :). At 75 drg will make mince meat out of birds, imps, etc... at your level you can hold your own, but you're not going to break 1k averages. Anyone who says you will is either:

A) Lying
B) Doesn't know what an average is (no, your warrior with a polearm using aggressor/berserk/mighty strikes penta-thrust is not an average)
C) Ignorant

Edited, Aug 4th 2008 2:01pm by galkaBST
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#283 Aug 04 2008 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
I actually was using coerl subs til my pt starting whining about me using wheeling, and I couldn't do sh*t with penta. I switched to sushi hoping for better results that never came.

Overall, thanks for the advice. The IMPs have been checking low evasion every time (but ONLY low evasion), but I read somewhere that low evasion starts at 10 acc higher than their evasion - so I don't know where I am at. With the gear I have +33 acc, without food, and not counting the +6 dex from the gloves and feet. So I am probably right around 36 total acc + from gear. I'm going to get a SH and try some other builds to see if I can get that number boosted based on the info you gave me Galka, and I will get that other strap. I use the mythril mostly because of the extra acc on it, and my drg inherited it from my drk.

thanks for the replies!
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#284 Aug 04 2008 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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You should really stay away from the Mire until you're 69-70 at least. Its been forever and a day since I leveled that range but I think I ended up doing Erucas and then some Bibiki Bay for those levels. I ended up at Mamool Ja Staging point at 10Kexp to 70 and leveled someways into 70 there.

However, at that point I did have a very acc heavy build with 5 Polearm merits so it's not something I would recommend to everyone.
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#285 Aug 04 2008 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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GalkaBST, just a little note - I think it's actually Acc+2 for Hit Rate +1%. The rest of what you said makes perfect sense.

Lilyanne, just a spot of correction; with a Delay 492 lance, assuming no Store TP, an average hit will return 13.3% TP. Assuming Store TP II from /SAM, this becomes 15.2%.

Terrain, I can only echo what GalkaBST said. The DEX+6 you cite will boost your Accuracy by 4.5, truncated to 4 because of the Floor function (as a general rule, divide DEX through by 4, multiply that by 3, then lop off the decimal point).
Just bite the bullet, basically, it's incredibly unrealistic to assume that phenomenal numbers are the norm at your level, and just for you, if someone complains, you can tell them I said that.
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#286 Aug 04 2008 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, it's commonly believed that 2 acc = 1% hit rate, but from what I've seen on parse it seems like 3-4 acc is more accurate. One of the guys who is responsible for a lot of this math floating around is RKenshin (has a popular LJ, posts a lot on BG, etc) has recently posted that he feels 3-4 acc is closer to 1% as well:

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2107380&postcount=71

In any case, it's pretty much splitting hairs, but the more accuracy the better.

I think I ended up in Bibiki too... man, I hated those levels ahaha. I'm done doing jobs to 75 :/
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#287 Aug 04 2008 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
Ok, I appreciate all the replies and advice. The main person who was complaining about it was leveling BLU, and apparently was a 75 DRG and a 75 DRK as well. He also said that he was pulling 2500+ guillotines at 60 on defoliators in aydeewa. I personally have never pulled a number that high on DRK (although since I started macroing in more MND gear the numbers have improved), but I wasn't going to argue with him since the pt was started by 3 LS buddies and I didn't want to get kicked out.

Well, back to farmin for my next set of gear. I'll post again in a few levels and let you all know where your advice took me!


:)

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#288 Aug 04 2008 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
2500+ guillotines at 60 on defoliators in aydeewa


Maybe by defoliators he means 'boreal hound.' And by 60, he means 75.

I'd love to hear what he says his drg does / a gear listing :). So many people blow hot smoke lol. That said, I certainly understand not saying anything and just staying in the XP party since lfp sucks... but I think I'd just leave and solo if people were acting like that XD. Campaign go!

It's also hilarious to me that this guy is saying this to you when you have a 75 drk... he must just have that 2500+ cheat code eh? ;)

Edited, Aug 4th 2008 4:34pm by galkaBST
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#289 Aug 04 2008 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's my gear set-up for Drg:

Weapon: Mezraq
Head: Turban/Wyvern
Neck: Chiv. Chain
Ears: Assault/Brutal
Body: AJ
Hands: Dusk/Wyrmal/Pallas
Rings: Woodsman/Rajas/Ruby
Back: Amemet+1
Waist: Swift/Potent/Warwolf
Legs: Barone
Feet: AF/Relic/Rutters

Things I know: Feet need help ASAP
Merits I have: 6/8 Polearm, 4/4 Crit, 2 Jump, 2 High Jump

Basically, are the relic gloves worth wearing over Dusk until I cap Polearm or should I stick to dusk full-time?

Should I work on Heca boots for WS or are Rutters comparable?

I know Homam would be awesome but the way my current schedule is, I can't attend limbus runs, so Homam gear is out of the question for now.
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#290 Aug 05 2008 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
Yea I wasn't sure if he was expecting me to argue, or just worship and be in awe of him. DRK only came up because I told him that it was my only DD job 75 and alot of my gear was inherited from it. He didn't say what numbers he was pulling on DRG at my level. I wasn't impressed with his 2500 in aydeewa, but again, I wasn't really in a position to argue.

I did ask him to /check me and tell me what I was doing wrong, and he couldn't come up with an answer except "maybe SH". But, as I said, I borrowed one and it didn't make a noticable difference.

Well bummer that maintenance went on so late last night. I didn't get a chance to do any equip testing. I was reading some more threads in this forum though, and I am wondering if I should be wearing an AJ instead of the peti. I camped OSE a couple times to help friends get it, but I never bothered getting one for myself thinking that the DD jobs I would level would all be able to wear heavy armor (L.O.L.).
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#291 Aug 05 2008 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Lilyanne, just a spot of correction; with a Delay 492 lance, assuming no Store TP, an average hit will return 13.3% TP. Assuming Store TP II from /SAM, this becomes 15.2%.


Oops, sorry.. that's because I wear Rajas ring and Brutal earring. :x I'm used to seeing 14%. :\
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#292 Aug 05 2008 at 9:52 AM Rating: Default
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i think that the problem is the acc at these level, try to get an SH and a Woodsman, and use sushi, you can also try with /war, berserk and DA helps to raise the damage of pentas.
But the best that you can do to raise your damage is get a bard, parties on the mire at 66-70 w/o bard really sucks, if there is a bard in party you can try meat too.
#293 Aug 07 2008 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
Alberto I am not sure if you are directing that at me, but if you were, I invite you to please read my post again.

So just an update to the rest of you who have been so helpful - I took my DRG out to campaign for a while last night before I went to bed, and my pentas seemed to be hitting pretty reliably. Just in eyeballing it, it looked to be around 70% that all five would land, which I believe Galka had cited up above. Since my polearm skill is close to capped out, I am going to hang in campaign until I ding 68 and then put the flag back up. We'll see if I get better results at 68 out there.

On an unrelated note, do any of you use parsers? I noodled around on Windower.net, but there are many programs there and I don't want to go overboard with downloading 3rd party things and possibly get myself a virus.
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#294 Aug 07 2008 at 6:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think I campaigned from like... 68-71 lol. Then just solo'd a lot.

As for parsers, I hear that kParser is pretty good (I've used DVSparse off of source forge for a long time). With any of them you're going to need the newest "memlock," but if you're downloading it fresh it should already be in there.
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#295 Aug 07 2008 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Merits:
7/8 Polearm
1/4 Crit
1/4 Enemy Crit
1/3 Angon

Plan:
8 Polearm
2 Empathy
5 DB (alternating with crit, DB first)
4 Crit
5 Jump
5 High Jump
3 Angon
8 HP
4 Enemy Crit
5 Str
8 Staff
2 Parry

in that order, give or take.

Haste (generally on /sam with unrestricted hasso use):

Weapon- Thalassocrat
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Tiphia
Head: Walmart Turban
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Fowling + Assault
Body- Barone (0/24 on ose, no chance to get the other ra/ex's due to time constraints with military. It's getting better lately, we'll se what happens.)
Hands- Dusk
Rings- Woodsmen (again, not much chance for raja's or ulthama's lately)
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- Dusk
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt/Life

/War (on the off chance i get to use it)

Weapon- Thalassocrat
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Tiphia
Head: lolWyvern Helm
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Fowling + Assault
Body- Barone (again, military)
Hands- Tarasque
Rings- Woodsmen (again, not much chance for raja's or ulthama's lately)
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- Barone Gambs
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt/Life


/Mage

Weapon- Thalassocrat
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Tiphia
Head: AF/Saurian
Neck: Chiv Chain/Chanoix's
Earrings: Fowling + Assault
Body- Barone/Scorp (again, military)
Hands- Dusk/Ostreger
Rings- Woodsmen (again, not much chance for raja's or ulthama's lately)
Legs- AF Pants
Feet- Dusk/Barone
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt/Life




i think that's mostly correctly. Throw in MP gear for non-sanction solo-ing.

Any suggestions would be good. I'm trying to get somewhere in CoP and such but i just can't find anyone who wants to do @#%^ing mammets (0/10)

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 2:53am by Gourry

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 3:04am by Gourry

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 3:07am by Gourry
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#296 Aug 08 2008 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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Your gear looks ok to me. I would use the /SAM gear on /WAR also tbh and use the /WAR gear for WS' and /SAM gear for TP.

As for memmets, go for 2xNIN, 2xWHM, 2xDDs. Have 1 NIN supertank all memmets from the start (NIN run in and aggro all and kite in the large arena, no voke or anything else) with 1 WHM to cure the NIN. The rest pull 1 mammet at a time and kill it.
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#297 Aug 08 2008 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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i know all the strategies

and i've proved them all wrong at least once >_< (the first time i did this on filia i also went 1/22)
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#298 Aug 10 2008 at 10:47 PM Rating: Default
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The gear setup i use i use for everything and dont really macro any pieces because the pieces that i have that would normally be in a macro i just notice almost no difference between it and my TP gear

Main: Thalassocrat
Sub: Pole Strap
Head: Drachen Armet/Walahra Turban
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Body Assault Jerkin
Hands: Wyrm Gauntlets/Hecatomb Mitts
Leg: Barone Cosciales
Waist: Life Belt
Feet: Wyrm Greaves
Ear: Brutal/Fowling
Ammo: Smart grenade
Back: Amemet +1
Ring: Rajas/Ecphoria

i use that gear for almost all situations really just need to know if i'm overlooking anything besides Homam which i'm in the process of getting same with AF+1 if thats better than anything i already have.
#299 Aug 15 2008 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Weapon: Thalassocrat, Bourdonasse (when non-piercing dmg needed), Cletine (when main cure in a party)

Sub: Pole Grip and for situational use Platinum Grip, Lizard Grip +1, Mythril Grip +1

Range: Smart Grenade, Bibiki Seashell (solo), Trollbane (assault)

Head: Walahra Turban (tp), Optical Hat (WS or TP if more acc needed), Drachen Armet (Healing Breath Trigger), Wyrm Armet (Healing Breath swap out, occasionally WS)

Earings: Fowling Earring, Parrying Earring (solo), Assault Earring, Minuet Earring, Insomnia earring (solo)

Neck: Chivalrous Chain, Parrying Torque (Solo), Chanoix's Gorget (Healing Brreath)

Body: Hydra Mail, Wyrm Mail (Solo or when Call Wyvern is used or zoning w/ wyvern out), Drachen Mail (for healing wyvern between fights), Wyverm Mail (Healing Breath)

Hands: Dusk Gloves (tp), Hecatomb Mittens (WS), Wyrm Finger Gauntlets (occasionally WS or TP if more acc needed), Drachen Finger Gauntlets (solo)

Rings: Woodsmanx2 (tp), Ruby Ringx2 (WS), Demon Ringx2 (solo)

Back: Amemet Mantle +1, Beak Mantle +1 (Solo)

Legs: Dusk Trousers (tp), Wyrm Braise (High Jump macro to lose more emnity or when more acc is needed), Barone Cosciales (Jump TP macro, Wheeling Thrust) Drachen Braise (Healing Breath)

Feet: Dusk Ledelsens (tp), Wyrm Greaves (healing wyvern), Savage Gaiters (Wheeling Thrust)

Wow.... Never laid it out and counted them all. 45 pieces to fill 15 usable slots. Thank god (or SE) for Gobbie Bag and Mog House Quests.
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#300 Aug 16 2008 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Kattiara wrote:
Earings: Fowling Earring, Parrying Earring (solo), Assault Earring, Minuet Earring, Insomnia earring (solo)


What's your parrying skill? It's going to have to be phenomenal to make the parrying earring do ANYTHING at all. Fowling/assault or Fowling/Insomnia would be better for solo.

Same goes for the parrying torque.

Hydra Mail is nice for soloing with a dmg- set, but what about AJ?

Kattiara wrote:
Hands: Dusk Gloves (tp), Hecatomb Mittens (WS), Wyrm Finger Gauntlets (occasionally WS or TP if more acc needed), Drachen Finger Gauntlets (solo)

Rings: Woodsmanx2 (tp), Ruby Ringx2 (WS), Demon Ringx2 (solo)

Back: Amemet Mantle +1, Beak Mantle +1 (Solo)


For starters, you should never need to WS in Wyrm Finger Gauntlets with Hecatomb Mittens. You're losing 2 accuracy but gaining 7 STR (and 4 DEX for penta), which will easily beat the WFG every time.

I don't think you have enough accuracy to be WSing in Ruby Rings, keep the woodsmans on.

And this isn't specifically for any slot, but mainly all of them. I've noticed you give up a LOT of DD gear for a couple MP or VIT. Stop that. Losing Amemet +1 to get VIT+2 will force you to kill slower, making you take more damage due to the fact that the mob lives longer.



VefDrg wrote:
The gear setup i use i use for everything and dont really macro any pieces because the pieces that i have that would normally be in a macro i just notice almost no difference between it and my TP gear

Main: Thalassocrat
Sub: Pole Strap
Head: Drachen Armet/Walahra Turban
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Body Assault Jerkin
Hands: Wyrm Gauntlets/Hecatomb Mitts
Leg: Barone Cosciales
Waist: Life Belt
Feet: Wyrm Greaves
Ear: Brutal/Fowling
Ammo: Smart grenade
Back: Amemet +1
Ring: Rajas/Ecphoria


You damn well better be swapping gear for WSs. Eyeballing damage is a pitifully inaccurate way to judge your performance. Eyeballing is why MNKs, the essential kings of DoT melee, were shunned from parties from their inability to form a skillchain to burst the OMFGLEET damage off distortion, all the while a good MNK would be easily blowing them away damage-wise one fist at a time.

Get an optical hat or hell, every wyvern helm. STR+5 is better than NOTHING, but Optical Hat is incredibly superior on WS than... haste.

Get Dusk Gloves to TP in, get ANYTHING to replace those sh*t wyrm greaves, such as Amir Boots or Tabin Boots +1 (for using while you work towards amir).

Get a Swift Belt.

Work on ToAU missions.

Edited, Aug 16th 2008 2:28pm by bsphil
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#301 Aug 16 2008 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I just picked up a PCC, so I figured I'd get my gear "rated".

I'm a career DRG and have been building toward 75 for years.

My current level is 70 DRG/SAM

Weapon: Colossal Lance
Grip: Pole
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Valkyrie's
Neck: Peacock
Earring: Assault / Fowling
Body: Scorpion Harness
Hands: Tarasque Mitts +1
Rings: Woodsman x2
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Potent Belt
Legs: Conte cosciales
Feet: Tabin Boots +1


I have some friends that are helping me get an AJ. I'm currently 0/3 on Ose. Also, I'm just starting to do assaults for Amir Boots. I macro in some STR rings for WS.

Is there anything else I should be doing for right now? Dragoon is my highest job, so I'm meritless as of now.

Thanks for the advice.
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