Zisaa, Mercenary Major wrote:
I thought this thread was all about helping people with gear questions...not tearing them a new one for asking a gear question. The guy had a legitimate question and can't use the search function. I could understand if he was one of those "You dont need to tell me how to better gear my job" guys, but from what I could see, he just wanted some clarification on something.
since i don't have my free premium anymore, i use a barbaric search function called a scroll bar and my eyes.
honestly, i didn't feel like explaining base damage and accuracy for the thousandth time. i'd be shocked if i haven't provided math answering this person's question in at least 3 threads on the first page. and really, looking around for various explanations in different threads IS HELPFUL. i directed him/her to a good place to look (DRG and SAM forums, probably could have mentioned the "calculating melee damage" article by VZX on the wiki). i didn't think that was acting like a douchebag, and i think anyone who can't see why i was offended by the response is pretty thick.
if it makes you happy, here's the mythril grip+1 vs pole strap math:
pole strap increases total melee damage by 2%, for reasons which should be pretty obvious.
for mythril grip+1,
2STR = 50% chance of raising base dmg
with an 81 dmg lance + your
fSTR, base dmg will be somewhere between 85 and 90.
1/90 = 1.11% increase in dmg from the 2STR, 50% of the time (the other 50% of the time it's 0% increase in dmg, so average of .555% bonus)
2ACC
raises ACC% by 1. assuming 85%ACC, that's a 1.17% increase in total melee damage.
1.0117 * 1.0111 = 2.3% bonus best case,
1.17% bonus worst case,
average bonus: 1.7%
if ACC is capped, this bonus drops to 1.1% half of the time, 0% the other half.
so, for melee damage:
mythril grip+1: average bonus = 1.7%
pole strap: average bonus = 2%. (incidentally, add in /WAR, going from 15% DA to 17% DA represents a 1.7% damage increase. to illustrate double attack's mildly decreasing returns:
100 rounds w/ 0% DA = 100 swings, 0% increase
100 rounds w/ 2% DA = 102 swings, 2% increase over 0% DA
100 rounds w/ 15% DA = 115 swings, 15% increase over 0% DA
100 rounds w/ 17% DA = 117 swings, 1.73% increase over 15% DA
notably, mythril grip+1's bonus goes down as you level up, because a) your ACC should be higher, and b) your base damage definitely will start higher, meaning you'll get about a .95% increase half of the time from the 2STR, and of course a 0% increase the other half of the time, for an average dmg/hit increase of .47%)
the 2VIT will raise
jump by about .9%, or by 0%, depending on your current VIT. add in the 2ACC and you get about a 2.6% jump damage bonus when fSTR doesn't go up (assuming the VIT multiplier impacts your dmg, the chances of happening of which are pretty good). the other 50% of the time (when fSTR is raised), it's about 3.6% damage increase.
so, for jump damage:
mythril grip+1 will almost always beat pole strap's 2% increase. shame swapping pole strap to mythril grip+1 erases TP (though on the topic of TP, you'll get overall a slight bit more of it from pole strap DAs than you will from mythril grip+1's ACC; the chances of this perceptibly influencing anything are rather low though). if ACC is capped, of course, pole strap pulls ahead (at least 50% of the time).
the 2 STR has the same 50% chance of raising fSTR, and about a 30% chance of raising
WSC on penta thrust.
base dmg will start out around 120
so, 35% of the time: 0% bonus bonus, (fSTR up 0, WSC up 0)
15% of the time: .83% bonus, (fSTR up 0, WSC up 1)
35% of the time: .83% bonus, (fSTR up 1, WSC up 0)
15% of the time: 1.66% bonus, (fSTR up 1, WSC up 1)
average bonus: .66%
since the
fTP of all hits of penta thrust is 1.0, 2% DA will provide a flat 2% total WS dmg increase, and thus wins for penta thrust.
for wheeling thrust, again 50% of the fSTR goes up, 50% of the time it doesn't. WSC will go up around 90% of the time, so for ease let's just say half the time base dmg goes up by 1, half the time it goes up by 2. your base dmg will start higher because of the 50% STR mod, say around 130 (90STR). so,
50% of the time: .77% bonus
50% of the time: 1.5%
average bonus: 1.13%
wheeling thrust's fTP is 1.75, so the first hit is 75% stronger than the double attack. so, pole strap will only provide around a 1.14% damage increase for wheeling thrust.
(1/1.75 * 2 = 1.14~)
so for WS dmg: pole strap wins soundly for penta thrust, and is about even for wheeling thrust (if the ACC matters for wheeling, mythril grip +1 would win slightly, but for reasons i don't want to go into, it probably won't matter).
conclusion: if most of your damage came from jump, mythril grip+1 would win. however, most of your damage comes from melee and WS, where pole strap does more.
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side comment about this discussion: the number crunching wasn't entirely necessary, if you look up and get a feel for how damage works. pole strap obviously increases damage by 2% or slightly less. if you know your base dmg is around 100, and that 2STR raises fSTR 50% of the time, you know that you're getting around an average dmg bonus of .5% from the STR, and 1% from the ACC. 1.01 * 1.005 < 1.02, and we're done. but yes, i can and often do crunch the numbers, and i don't appreciate being insulted for trying to urge someone on to learning about it themselves.
i post things like this because i had to learn all the math myself, since back in the day the people who knew it (with the exception of VZX) never made any effort to share or explain their knowledge. i've tried to change this, and have been (along with many other people doing the same thing on KI, here, and BG) largely successful. calling it "acting like a douchebag" makes me think twice about helping people. what do i care if you blindly buy sh*t off the AH and take any as
shole on a forum's word for gear decisions (and yes, i have verified for myself in game all the equations i use)? am i an ass for requesting people take 10 minutes to find and read 1 of the other 200 posts i spent over an hour each writing on the topic they're looking for? you're not the first jerk to ask about pole strap you know. so again, fu
ck you.
