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#277 Aug 04 2008 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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The problem is that you're level 66 in the mire.

Mire sucks, especially before 71-72ish. 66-71 is a rough patch for every job really, and you're seriously overcamping. Don't expect awesome numbers on those mobs til you pass 73ish.
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#278 Aug 04 2008 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
Really? My party was laughing at me because they said that I should be doing higher numbers on penta. My wheelings were doing 400 and up on them, which admittedly wasn't much either.

Does anyone else have any suggestions for me on boosting this number?

EDIT: the reason I am asking that is not because I disagree or think GalkaBST was incorrect in his assessment. I actually read in one other place during my research that 66 is just on the cusp, and is overcamping (but when I told my party that they all laughed). But if there is anything I can do to improve this number I want to do it. Like I said, the SH and the woodsman ring didn't help, so maybe there is something else?



Edited, Aug 4th 2008 11:02am by TerrainFFXI
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#279 Aug 04 2008 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hi Terrain, not sure why you're having problems. ;x But thought I'd share with you that you can work out how many hits landed when you do Pentathrust by looking at your TP return after you've used the ws. ;x With that lance you're using (nice choice btw :)) you should get 18% TP back after a Pentathrust with all hits landing. It works like this, you should get about 14% tp per normal swing, so: 14+1+1+1+1. ;o So if you get less, you'll have some idea of why, and if you get more you'll know you dbl attacked. :)

Anyway, my apologies if you knew all that. I think Pentathrust really falls over if even one of your hits miss. Are you using sushi? ;x Could maybe try with that. Presumably your polearm skill level is capped? Sorry for not being more helpful. >_<
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#280 Aug 04 2008 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
Skill is capped, plus three merits. I use sole Sushi.

The TP return is something that confuses me. I read somewhere that it's helpful to put an /echo <tp> in my macro so that I can see what TP I get back, but my tp return is all over the place. I sub /sam, I don't know if that helps. But sometimes it was 17, sometimes it was 19, once it was 28 (didn't look like I took a hit, but I guess I could have). I read somewhere that my regular hits with a 492 weapon returned 14 tp, so I tested that on some TW mobs and one hit gave me 15 TP, the next, 16, because I was then left with 31 total TP after two hits. Very confusing, and I am guessing that my /sam sub + the store TP I have on the neck piece and ring were the reason for it?






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#281 Aug 04 2008 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're right that is the reason for that. Sorry, my earlier post was written without taking into account you were using /sam. ;x StoreTP will give you slightly different results, and I think you're getting 15 then 16 because it rounds down the 15.x visually, but will still add it up for the next hit, so to speak, giving the 16 instead of another 15. I think that's right, to be honest I'm not very familiar with all that stuff. :X Just the basics. :]

And hmm, considering you were using that food and your skill is capped and you have merits, that is a bit funky. :x You could still be missing the occasional hit or so, so you could have had a run of bad ws. Or as someone else said, even with all this, maybe the Imps are just bothersome at this lvl. :X I think when I knew accuracy was going to be an issue, I opted for Wheeling Thrust too. It usually always gives consistent dmg, even if it's lower than the potential of what Pentathrust could give you in this scenario.
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#282 Aug 04 2008 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's only one thing you should look into getting if you want to boost those numbers:

Bard ;)

Or... this is what I would do-

Get some acc gear (borrow a SH, an acc ring, w/e) and run out to the staging point. Keep putting stuff on until the imps con low evasion. When you reach that point you know the acc+ you should be aiming for in your gear. Once you get that gear for yourself, party again and eat meat. I'm guessing you'll do much better. As a rule, you should never ever have to eat sushi on dragoon for xp. If you do you either need more acc gear or you're just overcamping (maybe a bit of both in your case, although I still think your level is a bit low for epeen numbers). The two most important things you can do for penta are boost acc and then att. A suitable acc build + meat will do both :).

Don't be discouraged with doing only three WS's in the gear you borrowed, it will (should) do significantly better with meat.

Remember that even with CAPPED accuracy (95%), you're only going to land a full penta (.95^5) around 78% of the time. If you're only at 90% accuracy, you're going to land a full penta 59% of the time. This is a pretty substantial decrease in the ability to get those numbers you're talking about. To go from 90 to 95% accuracy, you need around +15 accuracy (assuming 3 acc for each 1% of hit ratio, although the number at 75 is probably closer to 4 acc for every 1%).

So yeah, a little bit of accuracy can go a long way. Also, get a pole grip- it's easily the best dps grip that exists atm.



Seriously though- I think the most important thing is that the people you're leveling with are full of sh*t :P If they think you should be averaging 1K+ WSs because of a 25% piercing bonus they've been playing around in the merit bird camp too long. Don't feel bad, just tough it out for a few levels and you'll be making them all eat it once you're not forced to overcamp. You could always try setting up a skillchain and working light with wheeling thrust- that's an easy way to double your damage output :)

Edit: Ps. Those imps are level 78-81. It doesn't matter that they have low HP, those imps are 12-15 level above you :). At 75 drg will make mince meat out of birds, imps, etc... at your level you can hold your own, but you're not going to break 1k averages. Anyone who says you will is either:

A) Lying
B) Doesn't know what an average is (no, your warrior with a polearm using aggressor/berserk/mighty strikes penta-thrust is not an average)
C) Ignorant

Edited, Aug 4th 2008 2:01pm by galkaBST
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#283 Aug 04 2008 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
I actually was using coerl subs til my pt starting whining about me using wheeling, and I couldn't do sh*t with penta. I switched to sushi hoping for better results that never came.

Overall, thanks for the advice. The IMPs have been checking low evasion every time (but ONLY low evasion), but I read somewhere that low evasion starts at 10 acc higher than their evasion - so I don't know where I am at. With the gear I have +33 acc, without food, and not counting the +6 dex from the gloves and feet. So I am probably right around 36 total acc + from gear. I'm going to get a SH and try some other builds to see if I can get that number boosted based on the info you gave me Galka, and I will get that other strap. I use the mythril mostly because of the extra acc on it, and my drg inherited it from my drk.

thanks for the replies!
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#284 Aug 04 2008 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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You should really stay away from the Mire until you're 69-70 at least. Its been forever and a day since I leveled that range but I think I ended up doing Erucas and then some Bibiki Bay for those levels. I ended up at Mamool Ja Staging point at 10Kexp to 70 and leveled someways into 70 there.

However, at that point I did have a very acc heavy build with 5 Polearm merits so it's not something I would recommend to everyone.
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#285 Aug 04 2008 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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GalkaBST, just a little note - I think it's actually Acc+2 for Hit Rate +1%. The rest of what you said makes perfect sense.

Lilyanne, just a spot of correction; with a Delay 492 lance, assuming no Store TP, an average hit will return 13.3% TP. Assuming Store TP II from /SAM, this becomes 15.2%.

Terrain, I can only echo what GalkaBST said. The DEX+6 you cite will boost your Accuracy by 4.5, truncated to 4 because of the Floor function (as a general rule, divide DEX through by 4, multiply that by 3, then lop off the decimal point).
Just bite the bullet, basically, it's incredibly unrealistic to assume that phenomenal numbers are the norm at your level, and just for you, if someone complains, you can tell them I said that.
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#286 Aug 04 2008 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, it's commonly believed that 2 acc = 1% hit rate, but from what I've seen on parse it seems like 3-4 acc is more accurate. One of the guys who is responsible for a lot of this math floating around is RKenshin (has a popular LJ, posts a lot on BG, etc) has recently posted that he feels 3-4 acc is closer to 1% as well:

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2107380&postcount=71

In any case, it's pretty much splitting hairs, but the more accuracy the better.

I think I ended up in Bibiki too... man, I hated those levels ahaha. I'm done doing jobs to 75 :/
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#287 Aug 04 2008 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
Ok, I appreciate all the replies and advice. The main person who was complaining about it was leveling BLU, and apparently was a 75 DRG and a 75 DRK as well. He also said that he was pulling 2500+ guillotines at 60 on defoliators in aydeewa. I personally have never pulled a number that high on DRK (although since I started macroing in more MND gear the numbers have improved), but I wasn't going to argue with him since the pt was started by 3 LS buddies and I didn't want to get kicked out.

Well, back to farmin for my next set of gear. I'll post again in a few levels and let you all know where your advice took me!


:)

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#288 Aug 04 2008 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
2500+ guillotines at 60 on defoliators in aydeewa


Maybe by defoliators he means 'boreal hound.' And by 60, he means 75.

I'd love to hear what he says his drg does / a gear listing :). So many people blow hot smoke lol. That said, I certainly understand not saying anything and just staying in the XP party since lfp sucks... but I think I'd just leave and solo if people were acting like that XD. Campaign go!

It's also hilarious to me that this guy is saying this to you when you have a 75 drk... he must just have that 2500+ cheat code eh? ;)

Edited, Aug 4th 2008 4:34pm by galkaBST
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#289 Aug 04 2008 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's my gear set-up for Drg:

Weapon: Mezraq
Head: Turban/Wyvern
Neck: Chiv. Chain
Ears: Assault/Brutal
Body: AJ
Hands: Dusk/Wyrmal/Pallas
Rings: Woodsman/Rajas/Ruby
Back: Amemet+1
Waist: Swift/Potent/Warwolf
Legs: Barone
Feet: AF/Relic/Rutters

Things I know: Feet need help ASAP
Merits I have: 6/8 Polearm, 4/4 Crit, 2 Jump, 2 High Jump

Basically, are the relic gloves worth wearing over Dusk until I cap Polearm or should I stick to dusk full-time?

Should I work on Heca boots for WS or are Rutters comparable?

I know Homam would be awesome but the way my current schedule is, I can't attend limbus runs, so Homam gear is out of the question for now.
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#290 Aug 05 2008 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
Yea I wasn't sure if he was expecting me to argue, or just worship and be in awe of him. DRK only came up because I told him that it was my only DD job 75 and alot of my gear was inherited from it. He didn't say what numbers he was pulling on DRG at my level. I wasn't impressed with his 2500 in aydeewa, but again, I wasn't really in a position to argue.

I did ask him to /check me and tell me what I was doing wrong, and he couldn't come up with an answer except "maybe SH". But, as I said, I borrowed one and it didn't make a noticable difference.

Well bummer that maintenance went on so late last night. I didn't get a chance to do any equip testing. I was reading some more threads in this forum though, and I am wondering if I should be wearing an AJ instead of the peti. I camped OSE a couple times to help friends get it, but I never bothered getting one for myself thinking that the DD jobs I would level would all be able to wear heavy armor (L.O.L.).
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#291 Aug 05 2008 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Lilyanne, just a spot of correction; with a Delay 492 lance, assuming no Store TP, an average hit will return 13.3% TP. Assuming Store TP II from /SAM, this becomes 15.2%.


Oops, sorry.. that's because I wear Rajas ring and Brutal earring. :x I'm used to seeing 14%. :\
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#292 Aug 05 2008 at 9:52 AM Rating: Default
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i think that the problem is the acc at these level, try to get an SH and a Woodsman, and use sushi, you can also try with /war, berserk and DA helps to raise the damage of pentas.
But the best that you can do to raise your damage is get a bard, parties on the mire at 66-70 w/o bard really sucks, if there is a bard in party you can try meat too.
#293 Aug 07 2008 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
Alberto I am not sure if you are directing that at me, but if you were, I invite you to please read my post again.

So just an update to the rest of you who have been so helpful - I took my DRG out to campaign for a while last night before I went to bed, and my pentas seemed to be hitting pretty reliably. Just in eyeballing it, it looked to be around 70% that all five would land, which I believe Galka had cited up above. Since my polearm skill is close to capped out, I am going to hang in campaign until I ding 68 and then put the flag back up. We'll see if I get better results at 68 out there.

On an unrelated note, do any of you use parsers? I noodled around on Windower.net, but there are many programs there and I don't want to go overboard with downloading 3rd party things and possibly get myself a virus.
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#294 Aug 07 2008 at 6:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think I campaigned from like... 68-71 lol. Then just solo'd a lot.

As for parsers, I hear that kParser is pretty good (I've used DVSparse off of source forge for a long time). With any of them you're going to need the newest "memlock," but if you're downloading it fresh it should already be in there.
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#295 Aug 07 2008 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Merits:
7/8 Polearm
1/4 Crit
1/4 Enemy Crit
1/3 Angon

Plan:
8 Polearm
2 Empathy
5 DB (alternating with crit, DB first)
4 Crit
5 Jump
5 High Jump
3 Angon
8 HP
4 Enemy Crit
5 Str
8 Staff
2 Parry

in that order, give or take.

Haste (generally on /sam with unrestricted hasso use):

Weapon- Thalassocrat
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Tiphia
Head: Walmart Turban
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Fowling + Assault
Body- Barone (0/24 on ose, no chance to get the other ra/ex's due to time constraints with military. It's getting better lately, we'll se what happens.)
Hands- Dusk
Rings- Woodsmen (again, not much chance for raja's or ulthama's lately)
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- Dusk
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt/Life

/War (on the off chance i get to use it)

Weapon- Thalassocrat
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Tiphia
Head: lolWyvern Helm
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Fowling + Assault
Body- Barone (again, military)
Hands- Tarasque
Rings- Woodsmen (again, not much chance for raja's or ulthama's lately)
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- Barone Gambs
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt/Life


/Mage

Weapon- Thalassocrat
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Tiphia
Head: AF/Saurian
Neck: Chiv Chain/Chanoix's
Earrings: Fowling + Assault
Body- Barone/Scorp (again, military)
Hands- Dusk/Ostreger
Rings- Woodsmen (again, not much chance for raja's or ulthama's lately)
Legs- AF Pants
Feet- Dusk/Barone
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt/Life




i think that's mostly correctly. Throw in MP gear for non-sanction solo-ing.

Any suggestions would be good. I'm trying to get somewhere in CoP and such but i just can't find anyone who wants to do @#%^ing mammets (0/10)

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 2:53am by Gourry

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 3:04am by Gourry

Edited, Aug 8th 2008 3:07am by Gourry
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#296 Aug 08 2008 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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Your gear looks ok to me. I would use the /SAM gear on /WAR also tbh and use the /WAR gear for WS' and /SAM gear for TP.

As for memmets, go for 2xNIN, 2xWHM, 2xDDs. Have 1 NIN supertank all memmets from the start (NIN run in and aggro all and kite in the large arena, no voke or anything else) with 1 WHM to cure the NIN. The rest pull 1 mammet at a time and kill it.
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#297 Aug 08 2008 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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i know all the strategies

and i've proved them all wrong at least once >_< (the first time i did this on filia i also went 1/22)
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#298 Aug 10 2008 at 10:47 PM Rating: Default
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The gear setup i use i use for everything and dont really macro any pieces because the pieces that i have that would normally be in a macro i just notice almost no difference between it and my TP gear

Main: Thalassocrat
Sub: Pole Strap
Head: Drachen Armet/Walahra Turban
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Body Assault Jerkin
Hands: Wyrm Gauntlets/Hecatomb Mitts
Leg: Barone Cosciales
Waist: Life Belt
Feet: Wyrm Greaves
Ear: Brutal/Fowling
Ammo: Smart grenade
Back: Amemet +1
Ring: Rajas/Ecphoria

i use that gear for almost all situations really just need to know if i'm overlooking anything besides Homam which i'm in the process of getting same with AF+1 if thats better than anything i already have.
#299 Aug 15 2008 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Weapon: Thalassocrat, Bourdonasse (when non-piercing dmg needed), Cletine (when main cure in a party)

Sub: Pole Grip and for situational use Platinum Grip, Lizard Grip +1, Mythril Grip +1

Range: Smart Grenade, Bibiki Seashell (solo), Trollbane (assault)

Head: Walahra Turban (tp), Optical Hat (WS or TP if more acc needed), Drachen Armet (Healing Breath Trigger), Wyrm Armet (Healing Breath swap out, occasionally WS)

Earings: Fowling Earring, Parrying Earring (solo), Assault Earring, Minuet Earring, Insomnia earring (solo)

Neck: Chivalrous Chain, Parrying Torque (Solo), Chanoix's Gorget (Healing Brreath)

Body: Hydra Mail, Wyrm Mail (Solo or when Call Wyvern is used or zoning w/ wyvern out), Drachen Mail (for healing wyvern between fights), Wyverm Mail (Healing Breath)

Hands: Dusk Gloves (tp), Hecatomb Mittens (WS), Wyrm Finger Gauntlets (occasionally WS or TP if more acc needed), Drachen Finger Gauntlets (solo)

Rings: Woodsmanx2 (tp), Ruby Ringx2 (WS), Demon Ringx2 (solo)

Back: Amemet Mantle +1, Beak Mantle +1 (Solo)

Legs: Dusk Trousers (tp), Wyrm Braise (High Jump macro to lose more emnity or when more acc is needed), Barone Cosciales (Jump TP macro, Wheeling Thrust) Drachen Braise (Healing Breath)

Feet: Dusk Ledelsens (tp), Wyrm Greaves (healing wyvern), Savage Gaiters (Wheeling Thrust)

Wow.... Never laid it out and counted them all. 45 pieces to fill 15 usable slots. Thank god (or SE) for Gobbie Bag and Mog House Quests.
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#300 Aug 16 2008 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Kattiara wrote:
Earings: Fowling Earring, Parrying Earring (solo), Assault Earring, Minuet Earring, Insomnia earring (solo)


What's your parrying skill? It's going to have to be phenomenal to make the parrying earring do ANYTHING at all. Fowling/assault or Fowling/Insomnia would be better for solo.

Same goes for the parrying torque.

Hydra Mail is nice for soloing with a dmg- set, but what about AJ?

Kattiara wrote:
Hands: Dusk Gloves (tp), Hecatomb Mittens (WS), Wyrm Finger Gauntlets (occasionally WS or TP if more acc needed), Drachen Finger Gauntlets (solo)

Rings: Woodsmanx2 (tp), Ruby Ringx2 (WS), Demon Ringx2 (solo)

Back: Amemet Mantle +1, Beak Mantle +1 (Solo)


For starters, you should never need to WS in Wyrm Finger Gauntlets with Hecatomb Mittens. You're losing 2 accuracy but gaining 7 STR (and 4 DEX for penta), which will easily beat the WFG every time.

I don't think you have enough accuracy to be WSing in Ruby Rings, keep the woodsmans on.

And this isn't specifically for any slot, but mainly all of them. I've noticed you give up a LOT of DD gear for a couple MP or VIT. Stop that. Losing Amemet +1 to get VIT+2 will force you to kill slower, making you take more damage due to the fact that the mob lives longer.



VefDrg wrote:
The gear setup i use i use for everything and dont really macro any pieces because the pieces that i have that would normally be in a macro i just notice almost no difference between it and my TP gear

Main: Thalassocrat
Sub: Pole Strap
Head: Drachen Armet/Walahra Turban
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Body Assault Jerkin
Hands: Wyrm Gauntlets/Hecatomb Mitts
Leg: Barone Cosciales
Waist: Life Belt
Feet: Wyrm Greaves
Ear: Brutal/Fowling
Ammo: Smart grenade
Back: Amemet +1
Ring: Rajas/Ecphoria


You **** well better be swapping gear for WSs. Eyeballing damage is a pitifully inaccurate way to judge your performance. Eyeballing is why MNKs, the essential kings of DoT melee, were shunned from parties from their inability to form a skillchain to burst the OMFGLEET damage off distortion, all the while a good MNK would be easily blowing them away damage-wise one fist at a time.

Get an optical hat or ****, every wyvern helm. STR+5 is better than NOTHING, but Optical Hat is incredibly superior on WS than... haste.

Get Dusk Gloves to TP in, get ANYTHING to replace those **** wyrm greaves, such as Amir Boots or Tabin Boots +1 (for using while you work towards amir).

Get a Swift Belt.

Work on ToAU missions.

Edited, Aug 16th 2008 2:28pm by bsphil
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#301 Aug 16 2008 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I just picked up a PCC, so I figured I'd get my gear "rated".

I'm a career DRG and have been building toward 75 for years.

My current level is 70 DRG/SAM

Weapon: Colossal Lance
Grip: Pole
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Valkyrie's
Neck: Peacock
Earring: Assault / Fowling
Body: Scorpion Harness
Hands: Tarasque Mitts +1
Rings: Woodsman x2
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Potent Belt
Legs: Conte cosciales
Feet: Tabin Boots +1


I have some friends that are helping me get an AJ. I'm currently 0/3 on Ose. Also, I'm just starting to do assaults for Amir Boots. I macro in some STR rings for WS.

Is there anything else I should be doing for right now? Dragoon is my highest job, so I'm meritless as of now.

Thanks for the advice.
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