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#252 Jul 06 2008 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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That whole couse arguement is just for asthetics. What you want to look for is the damage and delay. Stay away from low damage low delay, and stick with high damage high delay.

By this comparrison. Obviously colossal is king with 88dmg 492 delay. But the level 70 alternatives, engetsuto is definitely good.

Bourdonasse:
84 dmg 478 delay

Engetsuto:
85 dmg 480 delay 2 acc, 1 storeTP

Colossal Lance:
88 dmg 492 delay 3 str 5 vit.
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#253 Jul 07 2008 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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What should I be wearing in my Legs slot around 53? I think I have a pretty good grasp on all the other slots until the mid-60's, but I don't know what to put on my legs besides Republic Subligar.

Also, should I use Empress Hairpin or Walkure Mask for tp/ws?
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#254 Jul 07 2008 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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wadus wrote:
What should I be wearing in my Legs slot around 53? I think I have a pretty good grasp on all the other slots until the mid-60's, but I don't know what to put on my legs besides Republic Subligar.

Also, should I use Empress Hairpin or Walkure Mask for tp/ws?


Republigar are the best option until Feral/Tiger, sadly. Crow/Raven Hose are a decent option as well, although I stuck with the subligar.

Walkure for TP/WS.

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 8:57am by Solrain
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#255 Jul 23 2008 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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So I got 75 DRG a few years back but retired my gear to pursue Summoner and Corsair. Well, I recently got some items that made me want to play Dragoon a little more then a "Unlock DRG" job again. So what I have to work with is things I didn't sell or had an idea they were pretty good when I got. Money making isn't a real problem so if there is something good, it's probably not out of reach. While I did see the equip guide in the sticky, I'd like to know whats personal opinion now. Anyway I have a couple lol pieces that I'll make a note of, it just happened to be convenient piece to use.

Weapon- Thalassocrat/Love Halberd
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Angon/Virture Stones
Head: O-Hat, Walmart Turban
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Brutal + Ethereal
Body- Homam Corazza
Hands- Pallas or Homam
Rings- Raja and Ulthalam's
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- lolCrimson Greaves
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt

Comments:
I've received mixed opinions about the above two options and Wyvern. Some lolWyvern(the +5 STR head thing) and some praise it, is this more a macro thing now, when I stopped OHat was end all be all so yeah.
Ammo- I'm Elvaan in situations where Love isn't useful(don't want to spam TP gain I guess) I'm looking at the +2 STR sachet or a Tiphia Sting and macro angon in/out.
Feet- It'll be about a month before we go back to Omega, have roughly 1k Mamool Ja points so not sure if I would be able to get Amir before another chance at Homam. So if theres a good stand in till I can gain some Mamool points I'd like to know.
Waist- I'm not in the Dynamis scene atm so Wyrm Belt isn't an option really.
Hands- More left over gear + my new Homam, would Tarasque+1 be better till I have more haste options?

Any advice would be appreciated, but in mind it was only a few weeks ago I really got back into this I haven't paid alot of attention to what would be needed and whats ideal so advice would be great.
#256 Jul 23 2008 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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vasathealchemist wrote:
Weapon- Thalassocrat/Love Halberd
Grip- +Double Attack Grip
Ammo- Angon/Virture Stones
Head: O-Hat, Walmart Turban
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Brutal + Ethereal
Body- Homam Corazza
Hands- Pallas or Homam
Rings- Raja and Ulthalam's
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- lolCrimson Greaves
Back- Amemet +1
Waist- Warwolf Belt


Most of this seems to be fine. If you're not using love halberd, melee with a Smart Grenade or Tiphia Sting, Angons can always be swapped back in when you need them.

Ethereal is a stellar /mage piece, but assault earring is better if you're just in a normal DD setup.

TP in Homam hands, Pallas' isn't exactly the greatest for Penta. The DEX- hurts your accuracy and base damage, as DEX is a 20% mod. Work towards AF+1 gloves if you can, or hecatomb. Pallas' are ok for Wheeling Thrust though.

vasathealchemist wrote:
Hands- More left over gear + my new Homam, would Tarasque+1 be better till I have more haste options?


I actually just made a post about this in the BST forum (ew), but yes, 8% haste is superior than o.hat/tarasque+1 assuming you have at least 72% accuracy. Actually, it's even less, because the actual comparison was o.hat/tarasque+1 versus turban/dusk, and homam is even better than dusk.

The feet definitely need to be replaced, Amir Boots are a very solid piece, shouldn't take too long to get through assaults. Also, don't TP in Warwolf. It's ok for penta, but a Swift Belt would be a much better TP item. The NMs are not hard, a balanced pt should have no trouble with any of the races (the tarutaru was nerfed so it's much more manageable now).

Edited, Jul 23rd 2008 4:49pm by bsphil
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#257 Jul 23 2008 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I had heard good things of the AF hands so heres hoping in our 3 week temenos adventure the Cobalt Sheet(I think drops) I have 1/2 the ABCs and 1/2 the materials so its not impossible.

Earring- Does assault earring beat out Fowling, I've seen that mentioned alot on the forums, or is that a WS swap piece?

Belt- Yeah we do fairly regular Swift runs, if nothing else I'll prolly get a Codex and adventure into a pickup group.

Shoes- I was looking at Aurum from ZNM, are they worth it till Amir/Homam? I have alot of days where I can log on for only 20-30mins so I may start taking more pictures.
#258 Jul 23 2008 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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vasathealchemist wrote:
I had heard good things of the AF hands so heres hoping in our 3 week temenos adventure the Cobalt Sheet(I think drops) I have 1/2 the ABCs and 1/2 the materials so its not impossible.

Earring- Does assault earring beat out Fowling, I've seen that mentioned alot on the forums, or is that a WS swap piece?

Belt- Yeah we do fairly regular Swift runs, if nothing else I'll prolly get a Codex and adventure into a pickup group.

Shoes- I was looking at Aurum from ZNM, are they worth it till Amir/Homam? I have alot of days where I can log on for only 20-30mins so I may start taking more pictures.


Earring- Yes, assault is better. For WS and TP. Fowling would beat out a normal attack+5 earring though.

Belt- Awesome.

Shoes- If you can get Aurum, by all means go for it. One more accuracy and 2% haste over amir, a very solid piece.
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#259 Jul 23 2008 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I am 60 drg and was wondering what gear pieces I should upgrade, also what I could/should macro in for penta. This is my first job to 75 and I like to have at least decent gear.

D. mez- (friend lent it to me, free wins)
mythril grip +1
Smart Grenade(should i get Tiphia?)
Walkure Mask
Chiv. Chain
Fang earing x2
Scorpion Harness
Level 50 gigas bracelets(farming for spiked finger gauntlets atm)
Woodsman and Ecphoira(spelling?)
earth mantle( ammement mantle+1 at 61)
life belt
pub sub
Tabin +1(will macro af once i complete it)

Should I macro in some str for penta? I think me gear is decent but i would like to some different opinions on what i should change.

Thanks in advance.
#260 Jul 23 2008 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Salgura wrote:
I am 60 drg and was wondering what gear pieces I should upgrade, also what I could/should macro in for penta. This is my first job to 75 and I like to have at least decent gear.

D. mez- (friend lent it to me, free wins)
mythril grip +1
Smart Grenade(should i get Tiphia?)
Walkure Mask
Chiv. Chain
Fang earing x2
Scorpion Harness
Level 50 gigas bracelets(farming for spiked finger gauntlets atm)
Woodsman and Ecphoira(spelling?)
earth mantle( ammement mantle+1 at 61)
life belt
pub sub
Tabin +1(will macro af once i complete it)

Should I macro in some str for penta? I think me gear is decent but i would like to some different opinions on what i should change.

Thanks in advance.


all very good. if your ACC isn't capped (which it probably isn't if you're eating meat at that level, which i think you should be with your gear), i wouldn't change anything for penta thrust yet. also, tiphia probably better than smart grenade for now, but only if it's pretty cheap.

the only real big upgrades i can see are:

1) pole grip instead of mythril+1. should be cheap on your server now (is on mine). definitely get this asap.

2) assault earring.

3) PCC over c.chain. you'll end up with so much ACC later on that as a 1job DRG i don't think PCC is worth farming for for you.

4) SFG like you said, probably the best use of gil you can find. sell back and "downgrade" to NQ tarasque if they're significantly cheaper than HQ. 2ATT isn't worth a ton of gil, at least not to me.

GKL is better than dark mezraq, but they're close enough that i wouldn't worry about it. i've been telling people that GKL > DM on these forums for a long time (b/c the math states pretty clearly that it is), but i used DM simply b/c it looked cooler (and b/c the math also states pretty clearly that the difference is small).
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#261 Jul 24 2008 at 5:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks milich, I am going to get an assault like you said, I probably wont get a pcc until im 75 ( be perfect for my up and coming sam). On the gkl vs dm thing, yeah gkl is better, but friend lent me his dm lol.

On a side note, I tried eating meat vs lesser colibire(spelling?) and I was only landing 3-4 hits on penta, with the occasional 5, is this ok?


Thanks for the help.


p.s. If I eat meat what should I eat, same friend that gave dm cooks me subs and hedgehog pies, are pies overkill for my level?

Edited, Jul 24th 2008 9:11am by Salgura
#262 Jul 24 2008 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent


Hey Milich,
I've noticed you recommend the use of Pole Strap over Mythril+1.
I am assuming this is as /war and stacked with other +DA pieces. Or will this proc with /sam as well?



Thanks,

Raff
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#263 Jul 24 2008 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pole strap always, with or without /war, with or without additional double attack gear.
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#264 Jul 24 2008 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Raffhouse wrote:


Hey Milich,
I've noticed you recommend the use of Pole Strap over Mythril+1.
I am assuming this is as /war and stacked with other +DA pieces. Or will this proc with /sam as well?



Thanks,

Raff


it procs with /SAM. brutal earring is the same. they allow jobs that normally can't DA to DA.

notably, DA doesn't get more potent when stacked. it's better to stack double attack than not to, because it stays potent enough to be worth stacking (though that doesn't mean askar body is better than, say, homam--depends on your ACC--or ares--askar is never better than ares), but 1% DA doesn't get better when added to 20% instead of 0% (like haste does), it actually gets worse in terms of % DoT improvement (as explained in the thread i linked to).

Quote:
On a side note, I tried eating meat vs lesser colibire(spelling?) and I was only landing 3-4 hits on penta, with the occasional 5, is this ok?


Thanks for the help.


p.s. If I eat meat what should I eat, same friend that gave dm cooks me subs and hedgehog pies, are pies overkill for my level?


honestly, i don't know offhand how evasive colibri at that level are and how much ACC you'll have at any given moment;;; (changes as you level of course). my best guess is you're fine with meat, ie hitting above 80% (some people like 85% as a meat/sushi cut-off). notably, 85% hit rate means 44% chance of hitting all 5 hits. 85% is still fine, but multihit WS don't usually land all hits. that's just how probability works:), 85% chance of a hit means .85*.85 = 72.25% of hitting 2 hits in a row, .85*.85*.85 = 61.4% chance of hitting 3 hits in a row, etc--which is why an 85% chance of landing a hit plays out as an 85% hit rate, in fact (because the chances of it not doing so over time become very very small).

sorry for the probability tutorial, but i see a lot of people saying "i need more ACC for multihit WS because with X% (say 85%) hit rate, i only have Y% (say 44%) chance of landing all 5 penta thrust hits." i agree that ACC should be added to multihit WS to make sure you land as many hits as you can (though i think gear should be chosen for whether or not it provides the largest DoT% bonus, which ACC might, might not). however, some people take the quoted sentence to mean: "i have 95% ACC (capped), but a 77.3% chance of landing all hits of pentathrust--not good enough, MUST HAVE MORE ACC!!!" but you CAN'T have more ACC. 77.3% just is as good as you can do regarding landing all hits of penta. capped ACC yields that; it doesn't make you "need more ACC", it just limits how many 5-hit pentas you can get.

anyway, back on topic;;. i use coeurl subs for non-special occasions (and would @ 60), but use red curry (or rabbit pie, which i haven't had a chance to use yet but would) for special occasions.

hedgehog pie is weird. its 5ACC is definitely nice, but if your ATT is below 400, you end up getting less ATT from it than coeurl sub (coeurl sub raises ATT by 20%, capping at +80ATT @ 400ATT, while h.pie gives ATT+18%, capping at 90 @ 500ATT). so, say you start @400ATT. you get 80ATT from coeurl sub, 72ATT 5ACC from h.pie. h.pie is still actually better (unless you cap ACC), but its betterness gets cut into.

another weird thing about h.pie is that no matter how much ATT or ACC you have (even at low hit rates), red curry is always better than hedgehog pie. red curry is probably twice as expensive, but if you're worried about cost, why not eat coeurl subs? there's just no place for hedgehog pie (unless you craft a lot of it for yourself, cheap).

ironically, the last thing i bought off AH was hedgehog pie;;;;. they were out of coeurl subs, so i decided to eat a sanction-enhanced 6-hour hedgehog pie for assaults.

wow this post takes a lot of words to say "coeurl subs [oh, and meat mithkabobs if the mob is going to take your food], red curry/rabbit pie, no reason to eat hedgehog pie unless you have a source for it cheap". ah well.

Edited, Jul 24th 2008 3:53pm by milich
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#265 Jul 24 2008 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you milich, your posts have been a great help to me!

I get subs and pies for free, awesome ls leader, so next pt I get into( gonna be a while, sam sub just hit 33, okote time lol) I will test sushi vs meat for me.

Once again, thanks for the help!
#266 Jul 25 2008 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Salgura wrote:
next pt I get into( gonna be a while, sam sub just hit 33, okote time lol) I will test sushi vs meat for me.


EDIT: Derp, was just reading the SAM forum before, and I've been drinking a tad, so this quote was actually in reference to you leveling DRG/SAM once you get SAM leveled, and not about leveling SAM33. orz Well this still applies to people so I'll leave it there.

The sushi/meat 80% rule generally doesn't work at lower levels. You probably won't even hit 80% accuracy WITH sushi. It's just the nature of the game, accuracy sucks at low levels. Go with meat.

Better yet, go with Rice Dumplings.

Note:

SAM33 has a cap of 102 GKT skill. I'll assume say, 36 DEX. It's somewhere around there, the chart I usually look up is down right now.

Accuracy = floor(102 + floor(36 * .75) + (+10 [PCC, I'll be generous]) + (+10 [Hasso])) = 149 Accuracy

Sole sushi would add

DEX+6 = +4 acc.
Accuracy+15% = +22 acc.
----------------------
Acc+26

Hit rate +13%

Which is about a 20% boost (assume a sh*tty hit rate around 60%, which is actually pretty decent for that level), however, the attack alone from rice dumplings is also a 20% boost, and that's not counting the 2.5% hit rate increase as well.




Edited, Jul 25th 2008 10:38pm by bsphil
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#267 Jul 26 2008 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Salgura wrote:
next pt I get into( gonna be a while, sam sub just hit 33, okote time lol) I will test sushi vs meat for me.


EDIT: Derp, was just reading the SAM forum before, and I've been drinking a tad, so this quote was actually in reference to you leveling DRG/SAM once you get SAM leveled, and not about leveling SAM33. orz Well this still applies to people so I'll leave it there.

The sushi/meat 80% rule generally doesn't work at lower levels. You probably won't even hit 80% accuracy WITH sushi. It's just the nature of the game, accuracy sucks at low levels. Go with meat.

Better yet, go with Rice Dumplings.

Note:

SAM33 has a cap of 102 GKT skill. I'll assume say, 36 DEX. It's somewhere around there, the chart I usually look up is down right now.

Accuracy = floor(102 + floor(36 * .75) + (+10 [PCC, I'll be generous]) + (+10 [Hasso])) = 149 Accuracy

Sole sushi would add

DEX+6 = +4 acc.
Accuracy+15% = +22 acc.
----------------------
Acc+26

Hit rate +13%

Which is about a 20% boost (assume a sh*tty hit rate around 60%, which is actually pretty decent for that level), however, the attack alone from rice dumplings is also a 20% boost, and that's not counting the 2.5% hit rate increase as well.




Edited, Jul 25th 2008 10:38pm by bsphil


i am also drunk, and i approve of this message. though it was also obvious to me that salgura was talking about a sam sub.

but the reason you don't use sushi at low levels is simple and twofold:

1) your ACC is so low that the +% ACC doesn't add very much ACC (remember that 1ACC adds .5ACC%, regardless of how much ACC you have or the mob's level or whatever).

2) your ATT is so low that the +ATT you get from meat or rice dumplings (just like the +ATT you get from mighty rings, /glare) is way more potent than the +ACC you get from sushi (remember, ATT figures into the dmg equations as ATT/DEF- level correction).

yo.
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#268 Jul 26 2008 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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milich wrote:
your ATT is so low that the +ATT you get from meat or rice dumplings (just like the +ATT you get from mighty rings, /glare) is way more potent than the +ACC you get


****** signed.

This is why Optical Earring is trash, why legionnaire's mittens are superior to Battle Gloves, why Mighty Rings own so much face, and so on at low levels.



Edited, Jul 26th 2008 9:58am by bsphil
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#269 Jul 27 2008 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Ive been thinking of quitting lately and if I do I was going to upgrade a real life friend's DRG and BRD gear. I dont know a whole lot about DRG, and wont claim to, so I figured Id ask you guys for some advice.

Keep in mind he does not have an HNM ls or Sea (hes barely into CoP missions)

TP:
Main: Thalassocrat
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Sting/Angon
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Peacock Charm
Ear1: Assault
Ear2: Fowling? Merman?
Body: Assault Jerkin or P. Body?
Hands: Dusk Gloves
Ring1: Woodsman
Ring2: Sniper
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Swordbelt +1
Legs: Dusk Trousers
Feet: Dusk Ledelsens

WS:

Main: Thal
Sub: Pole
Ammo: Sting
Head: Wyvern Helm
Neck: Peacock Charm
Ear1: Assault
Ear2: Merman/Fowling
Body: AJ
Hands: Tarasque +1?
Ring1: Ruby/Flame
Ring2: Ruby/Flame
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Warwolf
Legs: Dusk Trousers
Feet: Rutter Sabatons

Doies this seem reasonable? Anything Rare/ex that Ive mentioned he already has.

Any help on buyable gear appreciated.
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#270 Jul 27 2008 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Don't use those STR rings on WS. Stick to accuracy.

Also, you need a lot of haste to make dusk ledelsens worth using. Specifically, more than 38%. If not, Amir Boots are better.

Edited, Jul 27th 2008 2:47pm by bsphil
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#271 Jul 27 2008 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Well considering I cant buy him Amir Boots he's going to have to settle for Dusk.
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#272 Jul 27 2008 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Tokitoki wrote:
Well considering I cant buy him Amir Boots he's going to have to settle for Dusk.


I didn't know if he had them or not already. Should still be getting them regardless.
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Almalieque wrote:
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#273 Jul 27 2008 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Tokitoki wrote:
Well considering I cant buy him Amir Boots he's going to have to settle for Dusk.


I didn't know if he had them or not already. Should still be getting them regardless.

I think he is actually because hes always asking me to help him do mamool assault.
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#274 Jul 27 2008 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Weapon- Dreizack
Grip- Pole Grip
Ammo- Tiphia Sting
Head: O-Hat
Neck: Chiv Chain
Earrings: Fowling/Assault Earring
Body- AJ
Hands- Duskgloves /Tarasque+1
Rings- Ruby/Ulthalam's
Legs- Barone Cosiacles
Feet- Barone gambieras
Back- Psilos
Waist- Warwolf Belt

Currently I don't have sea access or beat DM. This was originally ATK set with the use of sushi. Most of these gears were originally posted in guides and things of that matter (not including the one on the front page.

Currently working on getting dusk ledsens/Amir boots and forgers' mantle


Edited, Jul 28th 2008 1:13am by Keitaroux
#275 Jul 27 2008 at 11:18 PM Rating: Default
TP Gear
Thalassocrat
Pole Strap
Tiphia's Sting
Walhra Turban
Chiv Chain
Ethereal/Brutal
Askar Korazin
Drachen Fing. Gaunt+1(dont have homam yet but the added acc boost helps my wyvern immensly in exp,especially with empathy'd minuet/haste/berserk and double att from wyrm mail)
Raja/Ulth.Ring
Forager's Mantle
Swift Belt
Conte Cosciales
Homam Gamberias

WS Gear
Thalassocrat
Pole Strap
Tiphia's Sting
Hecatomb Cap
Shadow/Light Gorget
Bushinomimi/Brutal Earring
Hecatomb Harness
Alkyoneous(WT/Skewer)/Hecatomb Gloves(Penta)
Raja/Flame Ring
Forager's Mantle
Warwolf Belt
Conte Cosciales
Hecatomb Leggings
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#276 Aug 04 2008 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
I have been looking everywhere and asking everyone I know, and can't seem to find an answer. So here I am, asking the experts.

I was in a party in Caedarva Mire yesterday (Level 66), and I seem to be having a lot of trouble hitting the numbers that are expected of Dragoon. Everyone tells me that Imps are weak to piercing, and DRG pwns them. So why am I not hitting these numbers? Below I have a list of what I wear in a pt. Most of the DRG I see xp in AF hands, helm, and feet, but I have what I "thought" was better gear in those slots. Could you guys take a look at my setup and tell me what I am doing wrong?



3 Polearm Merits
1 STR Merit
1 DEX Merit

(I know, I could spend more time meriting this stuff, but I spent my merits on WHM and PLD abilities instead, and really wanted to level drg after falling in love with it)

Grand Knight's Lance
Mithril Grip +1
Walkure Mask
Chivalrous Chain
Spike Earring
Spike Earring
Jaridah Peti
Custom F Gloves
Garrolous Ring (spelling?)
Ecphoria Ring
Amemet Mantle
Life Belt
Drachen Brais (Have had a hard time getting Feral Trousers on my server)
Marine F boots


Now last night a friend of mine loaned me a SH and a Woodsman ring to see if that would help me, and it really didn't. I did Three WS with the gear listed above, and three wearing the gear that he loaned me, and all of them were under 200 damage. I have been using Wheeling Thrust instead because my Penta numbers are so laughable.

Please, please please tell me what I need to change to hit the numbers I should be hitting. I feel terrible that I can't do the damage that others do, and after looking at all the gear guides I am thoroughly confused because some are outdated, and almost all of the ones I have found have conflicting information.
____________________________
75 RDM WHM DRK DRG PLD
58 BLM
56 WAR
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