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Which GKT goal to shoot forFollow

#1 May 31 2011 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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So I've gotten my SAM past the 75 mark and I'd like to start on one of the Great Katana ToM paths.

First off, the entire Donto path is a no go for me. I want a good GKT, but I don't consider myself a career SAM to the extent that I'd be willing to put all that time into a Masamune or a similar tier weapon. I've already made up my mind on Keitonotachi as a reasonable goal that I can aim for that won't consume all of my time.

I'm pretty confident, although correct me if I'm wrong, that the Store TP +12 version is the least good of the three. Most people I speak with seem to echo that.

What I can't figure out, however, is which of the other two versions is better; the WS Damage +10% version or the TP bonus (Super Hagun) version. Between the two of these, which one is the better one to go with?
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#2 May 31 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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I pretty much asked this question a couple of weeks ago because I wanted to help my brother do one and it seems the "Super Hagun" as you put it is the way to go. I honestly thought the WS dmg one was better until I asked, but apparently not. Either way, the cool thing is the trials are very easy and quite fast to do so you'll have a decent weapon in no time, gl!
#3 May 31 2011 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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If your not gonna go after masamune then the hagun +2 is the way I'd go. If you really like sam and plan on getting all af3 +2, then think about a masamune.
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#4 May 31 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'd say that out of all my jobs, I consider MNK the closest thing to a "Main" and I don't think I'll ever see a relic/mythic/empyrean on that either; I'm happy with Savate Fists.

Much as I'd love a Masamune on SAM, I'm simply not willing to put the time and effort into it, and therefore I don't deserve one. So I'm sticking with something which is slightly less good that requires much less work.

I applaud all the people who are working towards a rel/myth/emp weapon for ANY job; I wish I had your patience :)

I also appreciate the weapon suggestions.
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#5 May 31 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
The general consensus in all the boards and theads I've seen is the TP Bonus Keito. That's what I'm working on currently myself.
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#6 May 31 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Just to show why the +100TP Bonus one is better:

Weaponskill Damage = (D+fSTR+WSC)*fTP*PDIF

For both the WS DMG+10% and the TP Bonus+100 great katanas, D, fSTR, WSC, and PDIF are roughly identical. D is 6 higher on the WS DMG+10% great katana, but WSC is so large (cause you have tons of STR in Abyssea, and outside too really) that it hardly matters. So the only thing you really need to look at is fTP differences.

Tachi: Gekko's fTP mods are 1.5625, 1.875, and 2.5 for 100, 200, and 300TP respectively. So if you WS at 100TP with the TP Bonus great katana, you hit like you were doing it with 200 instead, so you have 1.875 fTP instead of 1.5625. 1.875/1.5625 = 1.2, meaning you hit 20% harder. If you WS at 200, its like hitting with 300, which is 2.5/1.875 = 1.33, meaning you hit 33% harder. Clearly both of those numbers are much bigger than a 10% weaponskill damage mod, which is why the TP Bonus great katana is the much better choice for SAM.
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#7 May 31 2011 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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Ah, thanks for explaining the math to me :)

Now it makes more sense.
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#8 Jun 01 2011 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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Arguably the Keito+2 takes longer to make than the Masa abyssea stages. The Keito+2 is 'Easy' becasue its all solo-able, but it took me longer to make then my elemental weapons, also if MNK is your main you should prob focus on the Fire Taipans+2. I made a masa for a firend with my 4some the Cara/cirein trials definately didn't take aslong as my Keito+2 (or didn't seem to anyway).

Keito+2 is all solo tho and each trial you can move at your own pace so it is easy to do. Its also important to have solo goals to do in the game so you don't get bored when your friends arn't around. I@ve nearly finished making a lvl80 Kanagi solo on nin/thf which has kept me very busy during those 'on your own' times, also been profitable aswell.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 4:57am by Sandmasterr
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#9 Jul 10 2011 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Any comment on Kikugosaku? Consistent 4-hit build possible with this? Since it has 6 STP and delay of a Polearm.
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#10 Jul 11 2011 at 2:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Using kinematics SS the Kikugasaku comes out ahead of tp bonus gkt with my gear, 5 hit, 26% haste, and can ws in full str gear, using Apoc, AO, and RR for atmas gives the highest numbers.

With Just Hasso and haste
Kiku comes out at average of 255.117 dps
Tp Bonus comes out at 242.488 dps
#11 Jul 11 2011 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
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That presumabley IF you can WS every 4HITS. If you start letting the TP hit 125% or 150% that small advantage it has soon falls behind.

After we get our Job adjustments that SE accidentaly left our of last months patch, we might all want a Kiku.

Edited, Jul 11th 2011 4:11am by Sandmasterr
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#12 Sep 19 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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What about now with Keitonotachi +3

One is: 106 damage 10% WS

Other is 100 damage 100 TP Bonus.

I'm really worried that the end +4 will be 20% vs 200 TP which might make 20% better with high damage.

Can you backtrack your weapon to +1?
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#13 Sep 20 2011 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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TP bonus still better.
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#14 Sep 20 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Kiku beats both. Way higher base DMG, higher delay, STP, Strength, and enhanced Zanshin. It moved me to a solid 5hit with no mutilation of my WS set.
It dominates my now Storage'd Keito.

As for Monk, not sure. Taipans +3 vs Taurine Cesti seems like a toss up. DMG/Atk vs Delay and Subtle Blow/Enhanced Boost.
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#15 Sep 21 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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JaxReborn wrote:
TP bonus still better.



Yeah, I did the math last night. 200 TP = +19.8% damage, 300 TP = +60.2% damage O.o
#16 Sep 23 2011 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Keito +3 destroys Kiku for me, and all I had to do to keep 5 hit was swop juogi for unkai +2 with no change to my ws set.
When the difference was 16 base DMG kiku did pull ahead, but that extra 5 dmg on the +3 puts it back ahead
#17 Sep 23 2011 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Kiku beats both. Way higher base DMG, higher delay, STP, Strength, and enhanced Zanshin. It moved me to a solid 5hit with no mutilation of my WS set.
It dominates my now Storage'd Keito.

As for Monk, not sure. Taipans +3 vs Taurine Cesti seems like a toss up. DMG/Atk vs Delay and Subtle Blow/Enhanced Boost.


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#18 Sep 25 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry not all of us have Juogi and +2 body? I was answering the question for someone who isn't willing to do Masa and admit Sam is not a "huge" deal... so I doubt they'd spend millions on a single piece or the effort for a +2 body.
So no, I'm pretty sure in standard gear Keito+2 is garbage next to a Kiku. +3 might come out better thanks to the +DMG it gets, I'd have to test.
But the HUGE drop in sTP/Delay seems like it would do nothing but hurt.

If someone feels like showing a representation of Keito+3 vs Kiku in gear that is not full +2/multi-million gil I'd appreciate it. But as it stands, Keito is staying in my storage.
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#19 Sep 25 2011 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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Assuming you maintain the same hit build, less delay is better than more. I don't understand higher delay being an argument for a weapon. It is not hard to 5 hit a 450 delay great katana. I was able to do it with only one +2 (legs) and still have like 22% haste. Getting more +2 just frees up your other gear more. Nothing I had was that difficult to get and I got nearly all as a duo.
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#20 Sep 25 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Solid 4-hit build Kiku is getting easier after this update. (+100 STP and +70 STP total when tping and WSing respectively)

I probably only losing 6 STR when WSing.

I've also got many instances in abyssea I do WS -> 1 round swing -> WS again last weekend when lvling up my SAM

Edited, Sep 26th 2011 6:59am by VZX
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#21 Apr 01 2012 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Reviving this thread to get more opinions on a simple matter:

Assuming
A) I wouldn't take Masa past level 90, and
B) If I had Masa I probably would not merit Shoha at all (I mean, I'd want to, but I don't really want to use merit slots on a WS if I'm going to be using the empy WS at least half of the time...)

would lv90 Masa or the lv99 TP bonus GK be the stronger weapon? I'd really only want to bother getting one of these if at all possible.

Thanks in advance.

Edited, Apr 1st 2012 3:15am by Fynlar
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#22 Apr 07 2012 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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If I recall correctly, the overall damage from Shoha spam with Kantonotachi (99 TP Bonus GKT) outweighs Fudo spam from Masa outside Abyssea now, right?

I can give a first-hand testimonial on Kanto, it's definitely Hagun 2.0 and feels great in situations where WS spam is the way to go. Add in Konzen-ittai and Sengikori and your one-step Light (Kasha) or Darkness (Gekko) becomes extremely potent.
#23 Apr 17 2012 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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anyone tried the **** +1 with the 2-3times attack?
just a soboro with +7 dmg and higher delay? is it even worth it?
#24 May 03 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Symfonikz wrote:
If I recall correctly, the overall damage from Shoha spam with Kantonotachi (99 TP Bonus GKT) outweighs Fudo spam from Masa outside Abyssea now, right?

I can give a first-hand testimonial on Kanto, it's definitely Hagun 2.0 and feels great in situations where WS spam is the way to go. Add in Konzen-ittai and Sengikori and your one-step Light (Kasha) or Darkness (Gekko) becomes extremely potent.


Kanto is one of the strongest SAM weapons in situations where your only goal is to machine gun out WS's. If you actually have a chance to SC then Masa will surpass it due to being able to chain Fudo in for continuous light. Masa can also use Shoha it just won't be quite as strong as Kana's. Kana has a much easier time getting 5-hit and possibly 4-hit (with buffs), Masa's funky delay makes it a bit tricky but not impossible.
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