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couple lvl50ish questionFollow

#1 Apr 05 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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  • Can just skim the bold if you'd like i know its long ; ;



  • 1. i read that i should be using polearm which means ill be using pentathrust, so i was wondering what would a WS set up at this level look like?

    2. im sure its a bit dependent on food type which is part of my next question, what food to use: can i get better results gearing for accuracy and eating meat at this level or should i use attack and haste gear with mild accuracy and eat sushi? (for haste i have fuma, swift belt, and wyvern, but its only good for sub DRG which i doubt any pt will let me do).

    3. if i did want to use GK (soboro preferably unless koryukagemitsu is worth using over it) then what would my WS set up look like? is it too early to worry about stacking up STR? i was thinking just use ACC and ATK

    i know these are a lot of questions but id appreciate any answers. i havent touched my SAM in well over a year and i want to get back to it, and do a decent job. since it may help ill list what i currently own atm for gear option in each slot. as long as its AH sellable i can buy more things if its really needed. so answers not limited to what i have.

    weapon: soboro
    grip: brass +1
    Ammo: optical needle
    Head: Valkyries mask, empress haripin
    Ear: tortoise x2, Wyvern earing
    Body: Luisant Haubert
    hands: ochimusa kote
    rings: snipers x2, rajas ring
    neck: peacock charm, spike necklace
    back: Jaguar, Wyvern mantle
    waist: vanguard, swift belt
    legs: republic subligar
    feet: sarutobi kyahan

    (and please know i am in know way trying to show off anything, i know most of this gear is obsolete at 75 and some will be obsolete in just 5-10 level, i happened to get all of this for waaaaay under a mil since it was on sale)




    Edited, Apr 5th 2010 12:12pm by ckmasters
    #2 Apr 05 2010 at 3:36 AM Rating: Decent
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    Sorry to not be on topic, but I can't read your post with that black font every few lines. it hurts my eyes.
    #3 Apr 05 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
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    Mostly Accy for P.Trust.

    Crab sushi for food.
    #4 Apr 05 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
    Quote:
    1. i read that i should be using polearm which means ill be using pentathrust, so i was wondering what would a WS set up at this level look like?
    ACC/atk, ripping off an earlier thread (some may be mid 50s):
    Sub: Mythril Grip +1
    Ammo: Tiphia sting
    Head: walk/valk mask
    Neck: Peacock Amulet
    Body: Akinji/Jaridah Peti
    Legs: Royal Knight's Breeches or shinimusha (if it lets you drop a hit)
    Hands: OKote
    Feet: Sarutobi Kyahan
    Back: Accura Cape/Jag mantle
    Waist: Swift Belt
    Ear: Spike Earring (x2)
    Finger: Snipers/Woodsman or Rajas/sniper (if it lets you drop a hit)
    Quote:
    what food to use: can i get better results gearing for accuracy and eating meat at this level or should i use attack and haste gear with mild accuracy and eat sushi? (for haste i have fuma, swift belt, and wyvern, but its only good for sub DRG which i doubt any pt will let me do).
    Crab Sushi, acc for any weapon isn't great at that level and you need a lot. If you pick up a BRD/COR/etc though ask for +atk buffs. You don't need a ton of haste or /DRG+wyvern for haste to be better than other options. Haste is better if it increases your damage by more than w/e else you'd put in that slot. sarutobi/swift are your best tp options until 70+.
    Quote:
    3. if i did want to use GK (soboro preferably unless koryukagemitsu is worth using over it) then what would my WS set up look like? is it too early to worry about stacking up STR? i was thinking just use ACC and ATK
    Soboro is the best GK at that level. Keep the same sort of thing I recommended above except trade out the haste for other stuff. STR mods aren't worth gearing for at that level.
    Quote:
    list what i currently own
    Looks good
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    Winston Churchill wrote:
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    #5 Apr 05 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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    sorry about the black font ill edit ><

    thank you for replies thusfar. main concern was having to invest in ws items that wouldnt even last very long. kind low on funds after buying what i bought. also was worried life belt would be better than my Swift with a polearm (id rather use swift cuz it was hard to get and its rare/ex lol)

    one more new question: if im using sushi and polearm for penta, would the ATK+12 belt be better? or would life belt still be the way to go? im not high enough level (im lvl50 btw) for virtuoso and i dont have one yet but im guessing if i ever get that, its going to be the best.
    #6 Apr 05 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
    Quote:
    also was worried life belt would be better than my Swift with a polearm
    not for tp b/c of zanshin devaluing acc
    Quote:
    if im using sushi and polearm for penta, would the ATK+12 belt be better? or would life belt still be the way to go?
    it depends a bit on how bad/good your acc/atk is, but life should be better for WS
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #7 Apr 05 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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    thankyou ^_^ i think im going to buy lifebelt and use that for WS for now, and sell back this vanguard belt. hoping to pick up some atk feet for WS when they are in stock.

    1 more question: i read a long time ago that @ level 60 a rajas ring should be better for TP than a snipers ring, or at lest as good as it (this was on MNK forums). for a two handed weapon use would this happen sooner? (store TP aside)
    #8 Apr 05 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
    Quote:
    1 more question: i read a long time ago that @ level 60 a rajas ring should be better for TP than a snipers ring, or at lest as good as it (this was on MNK forums). for a two handed weapon use would this happen sooner? (store TP aside)
    Under 60 it depends on whether you get the +1 fSTR (75% chance in the 45-59 level range), give me your total STR (note if this includes food/hasso) and I'll figure it out for you vs lesser colibri.
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    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #9 Apr 05 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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    i didnt think to ask this, but is there a site or link to somewhere with all the stats for birds (or any mob for that matter) at the different camps and various level ranges? i know i've seen people use the numbers for greater colibri to show the amount of accuracy needed vs their evasion based on the higher and low level ones at the camp (and also how much dex to cap crit rate) and ive seen post using numbers for mamoolja's too.

    EDIT: ill be able to log in later and check my STR out.

    Edited, Apr 5th 2010 4:32pm by ckmasters
    #10 Apr 05 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
    ffxi wiki, Studio Gobli and Blue Gartyr have some, there isn't a good compendium though, people usually just figure them out with /check.

    edit: note your DEX while you're at it too

    Edited, Apr 5th 2010 8:39pm by shintasama
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #11 Apr 06 2010 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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    i factored in STR from Hasso (no effect to base stats from crab sushi)

    SUB JOB: STR: DEX:
    WAR 57 51
    DRG 56 50
    NIN 55 52



    these are numbers without rajas ring on (which adds 3 to DEX and 3 to STR at this level)
    #12 Apr 06 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
    ckmasters wrote:
    i factored in STR from Hasso (no effect to base stats from crab sushi)

    SUB JOB: STR: DEX:
    WAR 57 51
    DRG 56 50
    NIN 55 52



    these are numbers without rajas ring on (which adds 3 to DEX and 3 to STR at this level)


    WAR: +1fSTR, +2 acc
    DRG: +2 acc
    NIN: +1fSTR, +2 acc

    so wear it for /WAR and /NIN but not /DRG at the level you're at.

    For future levels (<60), if STR/4 (w/o rajas) is a whole number don't wear it.
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #13 Apr 06 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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    Ty Prof. Shintasama, but unfortunately i have moar questions now >< sry

    Fstr increases depend not only on my STR but the mobs vitality right? or am i mistaken? and the different level mobs would have small variance in vitality (at least i would assume so) so how do you create a general rule on when to pick a piece like raja's specifically for the Fstr increase when you never really know the exact level of the particular mob youre fighting until the exp rolls in at the end? (or perhaps through an accuracy check to find the exact accuracy needed to see "low evasion" in chat log, but who has the proper gear to even trigger that value, not to mention free time, to do that before engaging?)

    i guess part of what im getting at is, do we know the distribution of mob levels at each camp? (like the probability of a given level spawning) that way we could just gear for the most likely scenario (the level with higher probability). from what ive read, the thing to do at merit camps with regard to accuracy is gear/food for capped accuracy based on highest level mob there (who will have the highest evasion thus require more accuracy to reach cap than the others), so you will just be slightly over cap on the lower level ones, but what about Fstr? is it worth it to try to ensure a +1 increase of Fstr on at least 1 mob level @ the camp? for a lvl 50-60 player? for a level 75?

    none of this work is probably needed at this level, but im hoping to carry over anything i learn in this thread into my future endeavors at level 75 (and then 80...and on to 99 /sigh).

    help thus far greatly appreciated!
    #14 Apr 06 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Excellent
    Quote:
    Ty Prof. Shintasama, but unfortunately i have moar questions now >< sry
    npnp it's why I'm here
    Quote:
    Fstr increases depend not only on my STR but the mobs vitality right? or am i mistaken?
    You're right, I should have written a full explanation. In this case the lesser colibri in that range have VITs of 52 (lv63), 52(lv64), and 55(lv65), since 52 (what you'll fight most of the time assuming the distribution is equal, idk about per camp) is evenly divisible by 4 you can treat it like it doesn't exist in this case and just look at your STR. If you had mobs with odd VITs like greater colibri (67) you'd have to consider it. I suppose you could switch on and off for the lv65 mob if it conned differently (would be /WAR= yes, /DRG=yes, /NIN=no in the previous case), but it seems like more effort than it's worth (definitely not worth it @75 because you're killing to fast).
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #15 Apr 06 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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    i dont think i made the previous post very clear when talking about gearing for the Fstr increase @ 75.

    i was thinking about when do you chose to add a piece like raja's (or foragers mantle/amemet/cerberus+1 for a better example) for the increase of Fstr +1 to your full time TP set up on something like birds where you wouldn't be doing much in terms of changing around TP gear (-PHYS dmg sets aside for those who like to do that) as a SAM (vs mnk where people recommend focus up and focus down macros)

    i have a painful feeling in my stomach that the short answer to all this is dont worry about gearing for an Fstr increase ><

    probably a better question for my purposes would be: How far does an increase in Fstr by 1 go in terms of raising my DOT? and how does this increase vary by weapon of choice, attack speed, target mobs (squishy v. something not squishy) and other factors?

    EDIT: forgot to thank you again for last reply^^;

    EDIT: just looking for general responses like "gains to DoT from Fstr +1 increase the faster you attack", or the increase are constant, or decreasing, and so on for things like High DMG weapon, low dmg weapon, (Polearm vs GK maybe), high defense and low defense mobs, situations where you own attack is high or low, or how the DoT increases are felt based on number of hits to reach 100tp (or based on the disbursement of damage ratio for Melee:WS,things like that.

    Edited, Apr 6th 2010 7:25pm by ckmasters

    Edited, Apr 6th 2010 8:42pm by ckmasters

    Edited, Apr 6th 2010 8:46pm by ckmasters
    #16 Apr 07 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
    @75 most people generally don't bother calculating your fSTR increase because 1)you're generally doing more than meriting on one mob so the VITs are variable/unknown, 2) the focus in on haste/acc rather than atk/str for melee and STRSTRSTR for WS, and 3) in the slots you do wear STR it's generally clear which piece is better regardless of chance fSTR up (ie cerb+1> foragers > amemet+1 >= cerb > amemet, also it is better to grab pieces/sets with multiples of 4 STR to guarantee fSTR ups)
    Quote:
    How far does an increase in Fstr by 1 go in terms of raising my DOT?
    Higher base dmg weapons like onimaru get relatively less from +fSTR, lower base dmgs like hagun get relatively more, low dmg multihits like soboro/kuro/kogarasu/love get much more.

    ex.
    onimaru: (83+11)/(83+10) = 1.0108x
    Hagun: (75+11)/(75+10) = 1.0118x
    soboro: 1.9*(40+11)/1.9*(40+10)= 1.020x



    attack speed only changes the equation with relation to JA like medi and jump shifting the WS/melee ratio. Overall change in effectiveness of atk vs STR from this is pretty negligible, SAM melee damage is a pretty small part of our overall dmg so it's generally better to focus on Haste/sTP>acc/DA (the exception being when you're decide between a small amount of effective acc and a huge amount of atk).

    high def mobs don't directly effect fSTR's value, but they do increase the relative worth of atk. High VIT mobs increase the worth of fSTR. Generally vs extremely high level mobs with increases in both it's better to favor atk due to the lv correction. When you use polearm it's better to focus on atk/acc because you're lacking in both due to skill difference and penta also gets a -atk mod meaning you need more of it to compensate.


    If you have specific gear situations it's easier to illustrate.
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #17 Apr 07 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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    In regards to swift belt: Don't forget about Virtuosso Belt. I know you are only 50 right now, but if you plan to keep this up its worth owning. Levels 50-52 will go by fast, but that belt will never not be good (at least not at the current 75 cap). Generally what I do at these levels is wear life-belt until I can swap to virtuosso, A completely viable and respectable solution, especially in regards to an accuracy dependent build. 12 acc and 4 att is nothing to scoff at. I know you mentioned it above, but I want to clarify you would not be wasting time to camp for that particular item, as it seems swift belt may put your acc a bit too low for a pole-arm build. I can tell you from my experiences, as long as you eat sushi / other decent acc food, you can still get away with murder as far as acc from gear goes, so you may be fine to grind out like that regardless.

    Edited, Apr 7th 2010 12:06pm by FUJILIVES
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    #18 Apr 07 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
    Zue to zanshin 4% haste beats the snot out of 9acc during melee, the 9atk might come close to narrowing the gap but I doubt it will be enough to overtake Swift. For WS vituo would definitely be best though.
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #19 Apr 07 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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    Still pretty close overall - I agree swift is better in most situations (much how I wear rapparee harness over mirke most of the time), but once it gets to pole-arm levels of acc penalty, on evasive mobs like birds, I would say they are 'neck and neck'. I agree with you though, swift and swapping to virtu for ws is probably the best overall decision.

    *also thanks for the simple views on the fstr breakdown, I didn't realize it effected lower dmg weapons on a larger factor than high base dmg weapons*

    Edited, Apr 7th 2010 1:36pm by FUJILIVES
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    #20 Apr 07 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
    Quote:
    once it gets to pole-arm levels of acc penalty, on evasive mobs like birds
    The difference at that range is only ~7 skill (~3%acc), colibri aren't particularly evasive, and he's eating sushi. I don't have parses from that level range but he'd have to be in the lower 70%s for it to be really close.

    Edited, Apr 7th 2010 2:31pm by shintasama
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #21 Apr 07 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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    First let me say thankyou again to Shintasama^_^

    the Fstr break down was pretty much on spot with what i was looking for and what i percieved it to be in my head.

    i was thinking of gear choices with respect to amemet and the other backs based on "is it worth the cost to upgrade because it will give me an Fstr up?" but i guess it makes sense to not even calculate it out because as you said, we fight a variety of mobs with a variety of vitality so might as well just get the most STR you can afford without sacrafices more important Stats: Haste & accuracy (and proper amount of Store TP for X-hit build) not sure how this escaped me i think i was just tangled up in the idea of optimizing Fstr and didnt take a step back to see the bigger picture.

    good to know that i should be trying to compensate the skill diffrence for polearm at this (and much more so at higher levels) by gearing for Accuracy and Attack in WS and in TP gear when there is no haste for the option.

    Had no idea about the attack penalty on Pentathrust, does anyone know specifically how much that penalty is and if it changes by TP (like the sidewinder accuarcy penalty).

    @ Fuji

    i will strongly consider camping it ty for the input.
    #22 Apr 07 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
    -12.5% atk according to Gobli
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    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
    #23 Apr 08 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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    is that 12.5% to base attack? or just a flat rate for no matter how much attack you have when you use the WS?

    also does this penalty make adding attack thru gear less valuable (because even in large amounts, it receives a penalty) or more valuable (because there is a penalty you need to compensate with all the attack you can get)?

    i know its already been established to balance attack and accuracy for this WS, but im just wondering exactly how this penalty plays into the mechanics of it all.
    #24 Apr 08 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
    Quote:
    is that 12.5% to base attack?

    total atk *.875 = atk used for WS calc



    atk becomes more valuable:

    		w/ -atk%	w/o -atk% 
    500atk		0.7255		0.9549 
    490atk		0.6934		0.9182 
    %change		1.0463		1.0400 
    


    Edited, Apr 8th 2010 11:23pm by shintasama
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
    Winston Churchill wrote:
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
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