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#1 Mar 10 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Polearm for SAM on birds.

Why can't we keep this a secret?

I'm sick of partying with SAM/NINs like this:

Screenshot


With melee stats like this:

Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
Damiero               19782   61.45 %    252/204   55.26 %    23/125    72.28     19   115/203  154.74    7.54 %


And penta stats like this:

Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
Damiero                     12411    38.55 %      45/0   100.00 %      61/551   275.80 
 - Penta Thrust             12411   100.00 %      45/0   100.00 %      61/551   275.80


It hurts my soul.





Edited, Mar 10th 2010 5:53pm by bsphil
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#2 Mar 10 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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I'm rather amazed your soul can still feel pain at all, after being subjected to more wastes of oxygen than you can shake a stick at.
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#3 Mar 10 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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Eh, just imagine how bad it would have been with a, most likely, Shinsoku or something terrible like that.
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#4 Mar 10 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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I use one of those on my PLD for magic-based mobs like Proto-Ultima... My SAM (only 51, but climbing!) currently uses a Soboro or a Wind Spear, based on where I'm at. I like having the option. Too bad I can't pre-merit GK like I can Polearm...
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#5 Mar 10 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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NickRomano wrote:
Eh, just imagine how bad it would have been with a, most likely, Shinsoku or something terrible like that.
Probably better. Even with soboro I could average way more WS damage than that.
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#6 Mar 10 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
NickRomano wrote:
Eh, just imagine how bad it would have been with a, most likely, Shinsoku or something terrible like that.
Probably better. Even with soboro I could average way more WS damage than that.


there isn't a doubt in my mind that the same player, same gear, same macro swaps (even if he's using DEX rings for penta or something) would have done more damage in that party with shinsoku. there's no question at all.
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#7 Mar 11 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm trying to figure out if that's a TP or WS set (god forbid, it's probably full-timed)

Such a waste of some good gear either way. At least... he has... arrows...?
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#8 Mar 11 2010 at 3:10 AM Rating: Good
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Hey look on the bright side, once he dings 75 he'll probably, proudly, ding into Askar Korazin!!

Seriously though, I didn't think it was even possible to actually hit the bird and still only do 61 DMG with Penta thrust. An average of 275 though, dear me...
#9 Mar 11 2010 at 4:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Artemizthepld wrote:
Hey look on the bright side, once he dings 75 he'll probably, proudly, ding into Askar Korazin!!
Screenshot
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#10 Mar 11 2010 at 5:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Artemizthepld wrote:
Hey look on the bright side, once he dings 75 he'll probably, proudly, ding into Askar Korazin!!


Don't forget wyvern helm and askar feet! But yeah, I do more damage than that and my SAM is @#%^ing 64.

Just be careful, he'll probably see that his penta acc is 100% and stack more STR after seeing low damage numbers Smiley: laugh
#11 Mar 11 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
Remember when I said "I'd rather see people stick with GK vs birds than do polearm wrong"?

yeah?



yeah.
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#12 Mar 11 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder if they are all like him in the Teletubbies LS.
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#13 Mar 12 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
i was wondering y askar body was looked down upon so much. i currently use it on sam/war with polearm with crab sushi (cuz in another post bout my penta build i was told sushi would be best with my setup). askar body gives my 5 hit 2% extra DA putting it at 19% in tp gear, and my acc sits around 90-92%, is that extra acc from hauby +1 really worth dropping 5 hit?
#14 Mar 12 2010 at 5:24 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

i was wondering y askar body was looked down upon so much. i currently use it on sam/war with polearm with crab sushi (cuz in another post bout my penta build i was told sushi would be best with my setup). askar body gives my 5 hit 2% extra DA putting it at 19% in tp gear, and my acc sits around 90-92%, is that extra acc from hauby +1 really worth dropping 5 hit?


Maybe try Haub + Rose strap? What's the rest of your gear look like?

Edit: I really don't know what to say bsphil. Probably why I'll only merit with my friends lol.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 6:28am by marleytiva
#15 Mar 12 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
BiggHowie wrote:
i was wondering y askar body was looked down upon so much. i currently use it on sam/war with polearm with crab sushi (cuz in another post bout my penta build i was told sushi would be best with my setup). askar body gives my 5 hit 2% extra DA putting it at 19% in tp gear, and my acc sits around 90-92%, is that extra acc from hauby +1 really worth dropping 5 hit?
Accounting for zanshin, if you can get more than ~2.5% acc (93.5%->95%) you should go with acc.
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Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#16 Mar 12 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
TP gear is:

tomoe/pole/x/tiphia
askar/PCA/minuet/brutal
askar/dusk/iota/rajas
cuch/swift/byakko/usu

penta gear is:

tomoe/pole/x/tiphia
gnad/gorget/minuet/brutal
haub+1/okote/flame/rajas
foragers/virtuoso/usu/usu

suppose i could swap to haub+1 + rose....as long as penta lands 2 hits ill still have 5 hit....have 5/5 stp so that would give me 53 stp outta the 54 needed for true 5hit....but thats assuming the 2-3 acc that caps me is better than 4% DA....i thought the DA would help more...but yall are the math gurus =)

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 6:44pm by BiggHowie
#17 Mar 12 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Umm using Askar over Hauby .. but using Cuch over Foragers?

Try the rose stap option, looking at your gear you shouldn't ever have to worry about 1~2 hit penta's.

And this (OP) is why I am always cautioning people about using PLM. Without the proper gear it fails to GKT, even something like Oni. Of course once you got the bling bling gears, then rock it.
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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#18 Mar 12 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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BiggHowie wrote:
TP gear is:

tomoe/pole/x/tiphia
askar/PCA/minuet/brutal
askar/dusk/iota/rajas
cuch/swift/byakko/usu

penta gear is:

tomoe/pole/x/tiphia
gnad/gorget/minuet/brutal
haub+1/okote/flame/rajas
foragers/virtuoso/usu/usu

suppose i could swap to haub+1 + rose....as long as penta lands 2 hits ill still have 5 hit....have 5/5 stp so that would give me 53 stp outta the 54 needed for true 5hit....but thats assuming the 2-3 acc that caps me is better than 4% DA....i thought the DA would help more...but yall are the math gurus =)

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 6:44pm by BiggHowie


4% DA is > 2-3 ACC, but haub(+1) has a lot more ACC than 2-3. are you 8/8 polearm? regardless, even if you are close to cap (which if you said 90% ACC you're not... that's 10 ACC away from cap), you want to put turban back on and wear haub anyway, i'd say.

DA isn't a huge deal; 1 DA is generally a little worse than 2 ACC. if you're uncapped ACC and you can get more ACC than twice the DA you have available, the ACC is going to win.

edit: if you are close to ACC cap, dropping cuch for forager's is an interesting prospect. i'm a bit too lazy to look at the swaps and what would win when at the moment.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 8:54pm by milich
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#19 Mar 12 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Default
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That melee accuracy (well, the lack of it) kinda takes the breath away. Not even crab sushi can fix that much of a deficit...

Did this SAM have capped polearm for Lv.74? I hate it when people use merit/exp parties to skill up or unlock WS latent weapons. /sigh

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#20 Mar 14 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I doubt the level 99 merit mob of choice will end up being a pink bird, but who knows. Presumably, you'll need even more ACC @ lvl99 too as the difference in weapon grades continue to grow.

PA build might (but might not) become a toy build like /RNG became. Who knows though.
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#21 Mar 15 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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WS.Avg: 275.80

soniamdisappoint.jpg
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#22 Mar 16 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
VZX wrote:
Quote:
WS.Avg: 275.80

Dissapoint


sand wrote:
Presumably, you'll need even more ACC @ lvl99 too as the difference in weapon grades continue to grow.
It works the other way doesn't it? It seems much easier to get a 95% acc build in the 60s than the 40s even if you use the same gear.

Edited, Mar 16th 2010 10:54am by shintasama
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#23 Mar 16 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Professor shintasama wrote:
It works the other way doesn't it? It seems much easier to get a 95% acc build in the 60s than the 40s even if you use the same gear.

Edited, Mar 16th 2010 10:54am by shintasama
Well, there is less Accuracy gear available in the 40s that is of comparable power with options in the 60s.
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#24 Mar 16 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
Lucinus wrote:
Professor shintasama wrote:
It works the other way doesn't it? It seems much easier to get a 95% acc build in the 60s than the 40s even if you use the same gear.
Well, there is less Accuracy gear available in the 40s that is of comparable power with options in the 60s.
hmmm, maybe I don't think I added as much +acc gear as I got in increased hit rate though, low level acc is abysmal.

Colibri at least gain evasion skill at approximately the same rate we gain (A rank) weapon skill, and DEX/AGI probably ~negate each other too, so as long as you're fighting the same lv difference mob, I can only see acc getting easier to cap (via gear upgrades or otherwise).
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#25 Mar 16 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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not only does sushi get more powerful as you level (since hit rate is not ACC / EVA but rather something closer to ACC - EVA [with some other subtraction thrown in]), but the game just naturally scales so that VT EVAs are lower relative to your ACC than earlier in the game. why? i don't know. but that's obviously why hit rate is always like 50% in the dunes. will it stay true at level 99? no one can answer that.
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#26 Mar 16 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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melee acc 55.26% with 50+ acc in gear...

looks like he was skilling up and using IR lance because its the cheapest polearm on the AH.
#27 Mar 16 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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The problem with non A rank weapons and accuracy is that after 60 the difference between them gets bigger and bigger. Prior to 6 its 3 points per level, after 60 its 6 points per level. The game is balanced at 75 through gear and the fact we seem to prefer fighting weak-a$$ birds. But I can almost guarantee SE won't be creating another series of monsters higher up that are as weak as colibri, possibly something with low def/evd but some sort of nasty attack to counter it. The difference between A and B at 99 is over 60 points. B- has it even worse.
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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#28 Mar 16 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Default
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iknoweverything wrote:
melee acc 55.26% with 50+ acc in gear...

looks like he was skilling up and using IR lance because its the cheapest polearm on the AH.


You say that as if an Engetsuto is expensive >.>
#29 Mar 17 2010 at 2:15 AM Rating: Good
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Working backwards (and assuming he wasn't using food):

He's 40% below cap, so 80 acc below ~400, or about 320.

He has 49 acc in gear (assuming Headlong Belt since no Rajas), so 271 base.

Assuming human (race not specified) gives 69+12 dex, for +60 acc. Now down to 211 base.

211 base acc would be ~212 skill. 212 skill is cap for level 66. Yay.


Here, have a happy sam/drg parse (with recent gear revisions I reached a true 5-hit, and wanted to play around with it; no polearm merits), along with my own encounter with pain (osode/relic pants mnk):

Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
*mnk/nin              23425   75.69 %    354/235   60.10 %     21/82    57.68     55    83/144  112.33   15.54 % 
Motenten              28280   33.09 %     231/16   93.52 %    55/155   112.73     22   166/270  214.55    9.52 % 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
*mnk/nin                     7419    23.97 %      16/0   100.00 %     229/683   463.69 
 - Asuran Fists              2867    38.64 %       7/0   100.00 %     229/636   409.57 
 - Howling Fist              4552    61.36 %       9/0   100.00 %     294/683   505.78 
Motenten                    51738    60.54 %      71/0   100.00 %     90/1014   728.70 
 - Penta Thrust             51738   100.00 %      71/0   100.00 %     90/1014   728.70 




@BiggHowie's gear:

TP gear is:

tomoe/pole/x/tiphia
askar/PCA/minuet/brutal
askar/dusk/iota/rajas
cuch/swift/byakko/usu

Acc:
Assuming no merits
236 @skill
5+2+10+3+3+5+4+7=39
dex @hume sam/war=68
+4+3+5+4+15=99 == 74 acc
Total: 349

Crab sushi: +13% = +45
Total: 394

Hit rate = 93%/88%

Store TP: 25+10+5+1+5+7 = 53 == 19.8 TP/hit

Sufficient for fake 5-hit. 5-hit lost on any Feather Tickle.

DA rate: 10% + 5% + 2% + 2% = 19%

Vs 81s:
Hits per round:
.81 * 93% + (.81 * 7% * 45% * 95%) = 0.77753925
2 * .19 * 93% = 0.3534
Total: 1.13093925 hits / round


Vs 82s:
Hits per round:
.81 * 88% + (.81 * 12% * 45% * 95%) = 0.754353
2 * .19 * 88% = 0.3344
Total: 1.088753 hits / round


Avg hits per round: 1.1098



Replace pole + askar with rose + hauby+1:


Acc:
Assuming no merits
236 @skill
5+2+10+3+3+5+4+7+12=51
dex @hume sam/war=68
+4+3+5+4+15+6=105 == 78 acc
Total: 365

Crab sushi: +13% = +47
Total: 412

In excess by 5. Swap PCA to CC to keep same total Store TP and gain 3 str.

Hit rate = 95%/95%

Store TP: 25+10+4+1+1+5+7 = 53 == 19.8 TP/hit

Sufficient for fake 5-hit. 5-hit lost on any Feather Tickle.

DA rate: 10% + 5% = 15%

Vs 81s & 82s:
Hits per round:
.85 * 95% + (.85 * 5% * 45% * 95%) = 0.82566875
2 * .15 * 95% = 0.285
Total: 1.1107 hits / round


Edit: Made a mistake and forgot one of the Zanshin factors. Hauby is ahead by 0.08% (ie: essentially tied).


Given a 33/67 melee/weaponskill split, the extra 4 str gains about 0.6% total damage. Swapping Cuch for Foragers instead of PCC for CC ends up with Hauby build being about 1.5% ahead.

Using Pole Grip with Hauby instead of Rose Grip means you need 5/5 hits from Penta to keep fake 5-hit. The instances where those miss will almost certainly end up with it being worse overall than Rose Grip.


Edited, Mar 17th 2010 3:58am by Kinematics
#30 Mar 17 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Default
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You say that as if an Engetsuto is expensive >.>


engetsuto isnt "expensive", but it does cost over 10x as much as an iron ram lance. in addition to the price, IR lance has the lowest delay of all polearms, making it THE best polearm with which to skill up (assuming no love halberd). it also has a nifty -10% dmg taken which really helps when trying to skill up a weapon solo.

should he have been skilling up while partying? no. was he? yes. im quite amazed no one picked up on that. its pretty obvious, at least to me, what he was doing.

laughing about someone's dmg output and weaponskill dmg while they are skilling up is just sad. what's next, pics of people in campaign so everyone can laugh at the whm meleeing?
#31 Mar 17 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
saevellakshmi wrote:
The problem with non A rank weapons and accuracy is that after 60 the difference between them gets bigger and bigger. Prior to 6 its 3 points per level, after 60 its 6 points per level. The game is balanced at 75 through gear and the fact we seem to prefer fighting weak-a$$ birds. But I can almost guarantee SE won't be creating another series of monsters higher up that are as weak as colibri, possibly something with low def/evd but some sort of nasty attack to counter it. The difference between A and B at 99 is over 60 points. B- has it even worse.
Based on most recent growth rate, @99 GK & Pole should be 79 skill apart (~35.5% acc, currently 36 skill/16%acc), whether that's a impossible to make up for difference or not is up to devs. +Acc might be completely worthless for A+ weapons at 99, making B- reasonable/attractive to use, or they could just completely change the rate of skill gain for the next 24 levels.
Quote:
laughing about someone's dmg output and weaponskill dmg while they are skilling up is just sad.
@#%^ing over 5 other people doing something that he should take care of on his own time is whats sad.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 1:39pm by shintasama
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#32 Mar 17 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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Professor shintasama wrote:
@#%^ing over 5 other people doing something that he should take care of on his own time is whats sad.


^ This. I also can't understand why it's so difficult for people to join/create skill up parties every once in a while to offset the gimping that is level sync.

About engetsuto, on my server, it's 100k. Iron Ram Lance is 20k. 5x the price for 15 more DMG is well worth the 80k. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about melee should be able to tell that +15 DMG will make a drastic improvement on their output. Anyone who can't tell what's going on w/ that, has no business meleeing.
#33 Mar 17 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
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5x the price for 15 more DMG is well worth the 80k.


5x the price for 115 more delay doesnt make sense to anyone trying to skill up. i agree that engetsuto is a better polearm and does more dmg, but that wasn't what this guy was trying to accomplish with his gear set. he was trying to get skillups, plain and simple.

they should have just kicked him out of the party or told him to use a gkatana but instead bsphil decided to make a blanket statement about any sam using a polearm and everyone immediately jumped to "omg what a noob! look at those enkidu hands, this guy is an idiot! lol at his penta thrust, thats just pathetic"

what gear do you use to skill up? how high are your weaponskills while you are doing it?


btw on my server IRlance is 15-20k while engetsuto is 180-200k.
#34 Mar 17 2010 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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iknoweverything wrote:
they should have just kicked him out of the party or told him to use a gkatana but instead bsphil decided to make a blanket statement about any sam using a polearm


I think bsphil's "why can't we keep this a secret" comment means that SAMs with polearms are fantastic, but when noob-faces hear about it they miss the point, and look like idiots by not gearing properly for it.

Kind of like when you used to see WARs with a joytoy offhand, but rocking STR gear.
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#35 Mar 17 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Default
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I think bsphil's "why can't we keep this a secret" comment means that SAMs with polearms are fantastic, but when noob-faces hear about it they miss the point, and look like idiots by not gearing properly for it.


but thats just it, he wasnt gearing properly for a polearm build because he was gearing for skilling up. think of it this way: once he gets his polearm capped he would probably wear appropriate gear, but until then acc all the way.
#36 Mar 18 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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If you're skilling up a weapon in a merit party, get the fuck out, you don't belong there.

No excuses.



Edited, Mar 18th 2010 2:17am by bsphil
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#37 Mar 18 2010 at 5:24 AM Rating: Default
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Based on most recent growth rate, @99 GK & Pole should be 79 skill apart (~35.5% acc, currently 36 skill/16%acc), whether that's a impossible to make up for difference or not is up to devs. +Acc might be completely worthless for A+ weapons at 99, making B- reasonable/attractive to use, or they could just completely change the rate of skill gain for the next 24 levels

And /WAR will get aggressor, should soften a bit more the impact of the skill difference at that level when using PLM. Of course, there's always the possibility that GKT will get a WS so über that SAMs won't use PLM anymore tho.
#38 Mar 18 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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If you're skilling up a weapon in a merit party, get the @#%^ out, you don't belong there.

No excuses.


it didnt bother you then, but bothers you now?

i completely agree with what you are saying, but you are telling the wrong people. you should have told that to him instead of trying to make him the posterchild of polearm-sam-doinitrong. imo, if you don't tell him to straighten up, you are just as guilty as he is. you knew what was going on and you let it happen.

if you party with a guy who is trying to make a polearm build work, yet failing miserably, i'm totally for laughing at his gimp ass. until then, this guy and his gear seem irrelevant.

Edited, Mar 18th 2010 8:21am by iknoweverything
#39 Mar 18 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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iknoweverything wrote:
Quote:
If you're skilling up a weapon in a merit party, get the @#%^ out, you don't belong there.

No excuses.


it didnt bother you then, but bothers you now?

i completely agree with what you are saying, but you are telling the wrong people. you should have told that to him instead of trying to make him the posterchild of polearm-sam-doinitrong. imo, if you don't tell him to straighten up, you are just as guilty as he is. you knew what was going on and you let it happen.

if you party with a guy who is trying to make a polearm build work, yet failing miserably, i'm totally for laughing at his gimp ass. until then, this guy and his gear seem irrelevant.
I did. I wasn't the party leader. He d/c'd. Then the other DD d/c'd, so it was just me and that SAM, so I left.
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Almalieque wrote:
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#40 Mar 19 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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341 posts
It's quite rude to use pickup merit/exp parties for skill up and breaking latents of low damage weapons.

Brave Blade sync'ed down, or two, three levels worth of skills behind are not too bad, but Bow of Trials or eight level worth of skills behind in high level or merit party? That deserves public ridicule.

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#41 Mar 24 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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125 posts
Quote:
laughing about someone's dmg output and weaponskill dmg while they are skilling up is just sad. what's next, pics of people in campaign so everyone can laugh at the whm meleeing?



Quote:
if you party with a guy who is trying to make a polearm build work, yet failing miserably, i'm totally for laughing at his gimp ass. until then, this guy and his gear seem irrelevant.


Not sure I've got this logic figured out, seems to me like you're saying if someone is fully skilled up and has some appropriate gear but has made mistakes, we should mock them and feel good about ourselves.

But, if they're totally and completely gimp as @#%^ to the point of being nearly 10 levels behind in skill it's unfair and childish to mock them?

Since when did a str ring and swift belt count as good skill up gear btw? You can be the white knight if you want but the truth is that guy is being disrespectful to the other 5 members of his pt and deserved mocking, the only person who gives a sh*t if he's skilling up seems to be you. I'm sure most of us figured out that's what he's doing, we just don't care, gimp in a party is gimp. Most people don't expect relics when we party but skilling up with a sub par weapon is out of order.
#42 Mar 25 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Default
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81 posts
bsphil wrote:
If you're skilling up a weapon in a merit party, get the fuck out, you don't belong there.

No excuses.

bsphil wrote:
Lv.74 Samurai / Lv.37 Ninja

bsphil wrote:
merit party

bsphil wrote:
Lv.74

Something doesn't fit here...

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 1:42pm by okcin
#43 Mar 29 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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629 posts
okcin wrote:
bsphil wrote:
If you're skilling up a weapon in a merit party, get the fuck out, you don't belong there.

No excuses.

bsphil wrote:
Lv.74 Samurai / Lv.37 Ninja

bsphil wrote:
merit party

bsphil wrote:
Lv.74

Something doesn't fit here...


Honestly... it's common knowledge that the phrase "merit party" is a generic term for the typical merit party model in the 72~75 level range. Whether or not people are actually acquiring merit points in said party, or even capable thereof, is completely irrelevant.
#44 Mar 29 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
*
183 posts
Banggugyangu wrote:
okcin wrote:
bsphil wrote:
If you're skilling up a weapon in a merit party, get the @#%^ out, you don't belong there.

No excuses.

bsphil wrote:
Lv.74 Samurai / Lv.37 Ninja

bsphil wrote:
merit party

bsphil wrote:
Lv.74

Something doesn't fit here...


Honestly... it's common knowledge that the phrase "merit party" is a generic term for the typical merit party model in the 72~75 level range. Whether or not people are actually acquiring merit points in said party, or even capable thereof, is completely irrelevant.
.

Not to mention that merit parties aren't reserved for level 75 camps anymore. I see a lot of 75's meriting in Qufim these days. Rather sad, I know, but true.
#45 Mar 30 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
19 posts
You guys have it easy. I once partied with a SAM skilling up polearm with an unlocked gondo and using double thrust. I swear to Jesus, I'm not even kidding. I left the party in about .3 seconds after the second double thrust.

Lots of sh*tty SAMs out there, no doubt. But even the sh*tty ones sometimes try. This is just plain lazy.
#46 Mar 30 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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629 posts
JeebusKhristlol wrote:
You guys have it easy. I once partied with a SAM skilling up polearm with an unlocked gondo and using double thrust. I swear to Jesus, I'm not even kidding. I left the party in about .3 seconds after the second double thrust.

Lots of sh*tty SAMs out there, no doubt. But even the sh*tty ones sometimes try. This is just plain lazy.


I'd venture to say that he was using double thrust for giggles. 500 WSs and melee attacks in between on EP mobs would be enough to bring all but the gimpiest of polearm skills up to at least penta thrust. That is, unless he did it on purpose by WSing on meditated TP only. I remember getting a full level on a single double thrust back in the day.

*edit* if he indeed didn't have penta thrust, then you still probably stayed in the party for about an hour, as it would take that long for him to get 200 TP lolz.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 1:23pm by Banggugyangu
#47 Mar 30 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
19 posts
Sorry, I meant locked* gondo. Since I confronted him about it and everything before leaving. No clue why I said unlocked.
#48 Mar 31 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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444 posts
I have a question about polearms. Obviously, they have a specific time for use (outside of playing around with your friends). However, when I look at wiki, the Iron Ram Lance has a higher DoT than the Engetsuto. So, why is the Iron Ram Lance looked down upon so much? Obviously, your pentas will be lower on the iron ram, but those should ballance themselves out over time.

I would think that the higher DoT would make the Iron Ram Lance a better choice for most things where a polearm is wanted.

This may be a stupid question, but I am trying to make sure that I am doing something atleast semi intelligent when I feel like doing something differnt (for me) in a merit party.
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#49 Mar 31 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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2,890 posts
SAM's tend to do most of their damage through WS, this goes double for PLM builds that rely on high Penta-spam numbers. For SAM you want the highest damage PLM you can possibly get your hands on.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#50 Apr 01 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
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4,681 posts
Don't read too much in to those DPS ratings on the Wiki, they are simply just a measure of DMG per Delay. They do not take into account additional stats on the weapon.

Also keep in mind that damage from polearm comes not only from melee hits, but also WS and jumps (always true for DRG, and if SAM/DRG).

As an example of why those DPS ratings aren't the final say, check Great Katana.

Hagun: 10.00 DPS
Shinsoku: 10.67 DPS
Onimaru: 10.27/11.07 DPS (latent depending)

Yeah...
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RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#51 Apr 02 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
maybe blackout his name or something.
you could be ruining the guy's ffxi life.
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