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Why the -PDT on amano samsFollow

#1 Feb 09 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Default
I don't know any relic SAMs who aren't reclusive @#%^s (deserving recipients, no?) so I turn to you guys. Simple nuff, why did I just see an amano SAM in arhat's head, body, darksteel mitts, -4 ptd asa legs, askar feet, jelly ring, etc etc? Salvage set?

Edited, Feb 9th 2010 10:42am by tertoonetwothreefour
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#2 Feb 09 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Could be an "Oh ****" set.
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#3 Feb 09 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Most likely Salvage, although there are a number of other events where you'd see a SAM taking up the co-tank position. Wyrm for example is one I've seen being tanked by RDM + SAM on low man fight.
#4 Feb 09 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Doubt it's just a Salvage set. I get a lot of mileage out of my ****** set.
#5 Feb 09 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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i have -phys dmg sets for all my jobs, and none of them have relics. i think your logic is flawed, ie the amano and the -phys dmg set have nothing to do with one another.

edit: also, kind of weird that you saw one relic sam sporting this gear and made a topic suggesting that many or all amano sams wear it as well. eh.

Edited, Feb 9th 2010 5:10pm by Llester
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#6 Feb 09 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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If you're a good DD, why would you not own a -PDT set? In this case, taking 0.70*X is usually more manageable than taking X damage when you end up blood-tanking. When things get really out of hand, swap over to an earth staff for capped -50% PDT.

tertoonetwothreefour wrote:
There are two kinds of people in FFXI, those doing the laughing and those who don't know what's funny.
Trying not to laugh!
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#7 Feb 09 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't know any relic SAMs who aren't reclusive @#%^s (deserving recipients, no?) so I turn to you guys. Simple nuff, why did I just see an amano SAM in arhat's head, body, darksteel mitts, -4 ptd asa legs, askar feet, jelly ring, etc etc? Salvage set?


This is obviously an ***** set.

The ASA legs most likely have the +8% movement on them too, so said Amano User would be running around in it because it's quicker than running in dusk equipment.

This set is used when third eye is down and you've got hate. You don't *need* one of these sets, but it's saved me countless times and your support really appreciate it due to you taking less damage when you do get hit.


How this isn't obvious is beyond me.
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#8 Feb 10 2010 at 6:52 AM Rating: Default
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He can and and its nice to have around, i only carry eva/set for ****** but i'm sure going to get a pdt for those mobs who laugh at 280 eva skill...most sams carry only tp/ws gear wich is really lame imo.
#9 Feb 11 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Could be standing around gear too.

Ever noticed how mages stand around on -damage gear? Its the same principle. If you are standing around, something might hit you. The best gear to get hit with is -damage gear. Since you are standing around, you dont need attack, accuraccy, STR, etc.
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#10 Feb 12 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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He can and and its nice to have around, i only carry eva/set for o-sh*t but i'm sure going to get a pdt for those mobs who laugh at 280 eva skill...most sams carry only tp/ws gear wich is really lame imo.


eva set fails on anything over EM

Edited, Feb 12th 2010 6:22pm by KondaOfCaitSith
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#11 Feb 13 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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relic sam on my server has -pdt set for ballista..maybe they do too?
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#12 Feb 13 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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KondaOfCaitSith wrote:
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He can and and its nice to have around, i only carry eva/set for o-sh*t but i'm sure going to get a pdt for those mobs who laugh at 280 eva skill...most sams carry only tp/ws gear wich is really lame imo.
eva set fails on anything over EM
no?

If you're fighting VT+ -dmg% will generally do better than w/e eva/parry you put in that slot, but eva/parry still do work to decrease dmg taken significantly and any SAM worth half a **** should have a defensive set.

Edited, Feb 13th 2010 12:12pm by shintasama
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#13 Feb 13 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Default
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I have same eva skill thf have (base thf eva not with gear) plus around 230 or more parry, it helps, depends on mob, those with high acc pdt is better, regular t-vt eva is ok, aura statue miss me quite alot making /dnc works wonder.
#14 Feb 14 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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I have same eva skill thf have (base thf eva not with gear) plus around 230 or more parry
No, you don't. THF base EVA skill is 276. SAM base EVA skill is 256. Counting your full geared/meritted SAM in EVA set to a naked non-meritted THF is nonsensical. As such, I'm sure you would never be stupid enough to make that comparison. Right? Right?

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regular t-vt eva is ok, aura statue miss me quite alot making /dnc works wonder.
Aura Statues are VT-IT. Unless of course you're talking about the ones not at Ulli or the Nexus loop.
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#15Jajuzza, Posted: Feb 14 2010 at 5:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why does everyone need to prove something?
#16 Feb 14 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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Learn to make sense.

You can't evade as well on SAM as on a THF. HIGHER base EVA, and a nifty little thing called Evasion Bonus. Look it up.

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Since when 278 eva skill on sam is stupid?
Since when did I SAY 278 EVA skill on SAM is stupid? Oh wait, maybe YOU should learn to read. I pointed out you DON'T have the same EVA of a THF, I didn't call EVA set-up on SAM stupid.

Quote:
You dont need 320 eva to evade stuff, stop acting like you know what and we know sh*t.
Acc caps work both ways. You may not need 320 EVA to evade low level stuff. And you may very well dodge a few attacks from very high level mobs (I evaded Deadly Hold from Kirin as a RNG). But you aren't dodging VT-IT mobs "quite alot" (btw, a lot is two words).

Edited, Feb 14th 2010 7:01pm by Cyth
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#17 Feb 15 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Default
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Cyth wrote:
Learn to make sense.

You can't evade as well on SAM as on a THF. HIGHER base EVA, and a nifty little thing called Evasion Bonus. Look it up.

Quote:
Since when 278 eva skill on sam is stupid?
Since when did I SAY 278 EVA skill on SAM is stupid? Oh wait, maybe YOU should learn to read. I pointed out you DON'T have the same EVA of a THF, I didn't call EVA set-up on SAM stupid.

Quote:
You dont need 320 eva to evade stuff, stop acting like you know what and we know sh*t.
Acc caps work both ways. You may not need 320 EVA to evade low level stuff. And you may very well dodge a few attacks from very high level mobs (I evaded Deadly Hold from Kirin as a RNG). But you aren't dodging VT-IT mobs "quite alot" (btw, a lot is two words).



Isn't the minimum evasion rate for player characters like 20%?

To the one trying to justify Eva on SAM:

THFs should have ~340 evasion naked. It takes a considerable amount of evasion gear on top of that to be effectively evasive on VT-IT mobs. It takes a considerable amount MORE to be effectively evasive on most HNMs. Some, you won't be. Period. There's maybe enough gear to bridge that gap between a naked SAM and a naked THF, but no where near enough gear to bridge the gap between a naked SAM and a fully geared THF. For every piece of evasion gear a SAM can wear, THF has better/more of it.

Physical reduction gear, however, being a direct reduction of damage taken *as is obvious by its name*, is proven quite effective for the jobs that have a simple-to-build set of it. SAM is one of those jobs. Couple that with Seigan and Third Eye, and it's definitely your best bet. By all means, cap parrying and evasion, as those will absolutely offer a bit of extra help. Fill in whatever extra slots you can with either parrying or evasion gear. Just do not rely on them as a SAM.
#18 Feb 15 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Banggugyangu wrote:
Isn't the minimum evasion rate for player characters like 20%?
5%. The MAX evasion rate is 80% (mob gets floored to 20% hitrate).
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#19 Feb 15 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Banggugyangu wrote:
Isn't the minimum evasion rate for player characters like 20%?
5%. The MAX evasion rate is 80% (mob gets floored to 20% hitrate).


that's right, my bad. Thanks for correcting.
#20 Feb 16 2010 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Evasion skill isn't this magical thing either, at best, 1EVA Skill = 1EVA, so 4/4EVA merits will only net you an additional 8 evasion. Surely people can find more use for their combat merits other than putting them into evasion skill unless your a one job guy.

THF's and THF mobs (like Lurkers) evade so much because they have 48Evasion of evasion traits. Monk's can build an evasion set with around +80 EVA & +17skill (and more i forget) including the Dodge Job ability, but ofc, doing that means dmg output is pathetically gimp.
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#21 Feb 16 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Default
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Evasion skill isn't this magical thing either, at best, 1EVA Skill = 1EVA, so 4/4EVA merits will only net you an additional 8 evasion. Surely people can find more use for their combat merits other than putting them into evasion skill unless your a one job guy.

THF's and THF mobs (like Lurkers) evade so much because they have 48Evasion of evasion traits. Monk's can build an evasion set with around +80 EVA & +17skill (and more i forget) including the Dodge Job ability, but ofc, doing that means dmg output is pathetically gimp.


This was pretty much the point I was making. Part of that ~340 EVA that THFs have is the 48 from EB4. Even w/ the +80 EVA and + 17 skill a MNK can put together, that only puts the MNK at 353, which is only 13 more eva than what THFs have completely naked. As I said, if THFs require a sizeable amount of EVA gear to evade effectively, then it's simply not going to be effective for other jobs to even try, really.
#22 Feb 16 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Other jobs can get eva bonus I/II through SJs, they're even relatively common SJs for SAM.
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#23 Feb 16 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Default
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Still yet, as /DNC, 10 extra evasion isn't going to suddenly make you some magically evasive dodging machine. As /THF, it's practically a moot point due to TA and the fact that most SAM/THF use is for stacking hate onto tanks. Even in the situations where SA is desirable, it'd be foolish to not utilize TA's damage mitigation by putting the hate onto someone who's better equipped to handle it.

As both SAM and THF, I'd rather have a SAM TA onto me with enough damage that I pull hate and tank for a while, rather than have him tank for 3-4 hits worth. I think it's safe to say that MNK and SAM have fairly similar evasion gear available. I don't really feel like looking up the best evasion set a SAM can wear at the moment. If you factor in 22 evasion from EB2, you're looking at roughly 383 evasion when fully geared. This is still only about 43 evasion greater than THF naked. Doing a quick tally of AH gear alone, ignoring any Ra/EX gear such as ungur boomarang, I figured up 85 evasion for a THF. That's ~425 evasion without counting ra/ex gear. I'd imagine that the ~97 for MNK, which is most likely the same for SAM, included the best you can get ra/ex or not.
#24 Feb 16 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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SAM can only TA once a minute and w/o SA, leaving most of the hate on the SAM. I'm not saying slapping a few pieces of +eva is going to get you anywhere near capped evasion vs anything worthwhile, but it does make a difference, and any responsible SAM should have a defensive set.
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#25 Feb 16 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Since when did I SAY 278 EVA skill on SAM is stupid? Oh wait, maybe YOU should learn to read. I pointed out you DON'T have the same EVA of a THF, I didn't call EVA set-up on SAM stupid.

It's entirely possible for a SAM to have 278 EVA skill. Merits and a Boxer's Mantle are almost enough right there. He didn't say that he had as much skill naked as a THF; he said he had as much skill as a naked THF.

And, once you're over the evasion floor (which a SAM can achieve against EXP-level mobs, because of the high base skill), then that evasion is directly lowering the mob's chance to hit you, which is a perfectly useful thing for "oh ****" gear to do. A SAM that neglects evasion in his "oh ****" set is neglecting an avenue for damage reduction. -PDT is also very effective as well, but that doesn't mean that evasion is pointless, and there aren't many slots when -PDT and evasion meaningfully compete anyway, so there's no reason not to have both in your set.
#26Jajuzza, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 11:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Alot...a lot, this is my third language, you wanna look smart or what? Guess...
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