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help improve my polearm builtFollow

#1 Feb 04 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
im new to posting on alla forums, infact this is my first post, but im looking for help with my polearm build at birds, as id really not use it elsewhere. i have 8/8 pole merits 5/5 overwhelm and 5/5 str and this is my current setup:

tomoe/pole/X/tiphia
gnadbod/shadow/minuet/brutal
hauby+1/okote/flame/rajas
cerb/potent/usu/usu

then main points im unsure about is belt, would virtuoso be better than potent, and for hands would AF+1 be better than kote....though any advice on my setup would be appreciated, thanks in advance!
#2 Feb 04 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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need sushi+~47acc from gear (w/ 86 DEX, adjust to race/gear)

tomoe(5)+tiphia(2)+gorget(10)+min(3?)+haub+1(12)+potent(8)+usu(7)= 44-47acc

so you're about right on there, depending on how far off DEX estimate is/presence of BRD you might need to adjust slightly. Overall it's probably one of the better pentathrust builds I've seen (I'm assuming haste swaps for TP?).

to specific questions:
Quote:
would virtuoso be better than potent
Much better yes, the stat mods on penta are extremely low and penta desperately needs atk so you're almost always better maxing acc/atk.
Quote:
hands would AF+1 be better than kote
Okote are better by ~5-6%, bandos would be slightly better than that.


Other than that, just the standard stuff: eat crab sushi; /WAR unless you have 2xBRD+COR, (2xmarch)BRD+DNC, or a RDM that actually dia's; and play aggressively for best results.
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#3 Feb 04 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=32007

399 ACC (402 @ night) with Seigan on my taru (capped Polearm merits, 15 WS Acc Galea). Meat is easily attainable on Colibri. Pizza anywhere else lets you swap in more ATT.

Definitely leverage Virtuoso Belt and ATT Kote of some kind, no matter what.

Edited, Feb 4th 2010 5:52pm by Hakamaru
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#4 Feb 04 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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407 cap:

240 base skill + 16 (merits) = 250 acc
106 DEX = f(106*.75) = 79 acc (taru)
gear= 5+10+(15?)+12+7+12+5 = 66

250+79+66 = 395? or am I missing something?

he's got ~40 atk & ~15STR on you from gear, -mith is 20atk for you vs ~12acc(6%) and 10STR? I'm going to call it ~even for WS (I would definitely give it to you if you had +25acc helm), but sushi probably gives him the hits landed (haste+acc) advantage during melee.
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Winston Churchill wrote:
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#5 Feb 04 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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This is what I'm playing with right now for penta.
Tomoe, Rose, Lightning +1
Champ. G(10 acc/15 WSacc), Shadow, Fowling, Brutal
Haub, Bandos, lava's/Kusha's
Forager's, Virtuoso, Byakko's, Usukane sune-ate

I need to finish getting a haub +1 and hollow earring, but i can't really figure out what else i can do either. 8/8 Polearm merits, forgot that.



Edited, Feb 4th 2010 10:46pm by marleytiva
#6 Feb 05 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
so would it be worth using maybe cuch mantle or some other acc pieces to be able to use meat or should i just stick with my build, get virtuoso of course, and just rock sushi? oh and i have a anwig for my mnk so duck hat is outta the question and ive killed oh whats-his-face so many times i dont even care bout not having bkote anymore lol

oh and im a hume so sam/drg is 66 base dex and /war 68 if i remember right^^

and to totally get off subject, but idk where i would ask bout this so here seems as good as any....i was reading somewhere the otherday bout some1 saying u can only double attack on 2 hits of a WS, but last night i was on WAR meriting and my 1st hit of penta missed, and yet i got 7 tp in return. By the formula wouldnt that mean my last 4 hits landed, 3 of them having DA'd?

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 1:31am by BiggHowie
#7 Feb 05 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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BiggHowie wrote:
and to totally get off subject, but idk where i would ask bout this so here seems as good as any....i was reading somewhere the otherday bout some1 saying u can only double attack on 2 hits of a WS, but last night i was on WAR meriting and my 1st hit of penta missed, and yet i got 7 tp in return. By the formula wouldnt that mean my last 4 hits landed, 3 of them having DA'd?

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 1:31am by BiggHowie

STP applies to extra hits too, so assuming you have full STP merits, 35 + 7 + 5 = 47

5 * 1.47 = 7.3

So landed 5 hits.

Edit: Errr, just noticed you said on WAR, lol. Only using rajas for STP or what?

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 1:38am by TarowynXI
#8 Feb 05 2010 at 2:19 AM Rating: Good
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BiggHowie wrote:
...i was reading somewhere the otherday bout some1 saying u can only double attack on 2 hits of a WS, but last night i was on WAR meriting and my 1st hit of penta missed, and yet i got 7 tp in return. By the formula wouldnt that mean my last 4 hits landed, 3 of them having DA'd?


Did you get hit as the WS went off? That would give you a couple of extra TP.
#9 Feb 05 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
3rd eye was up b4 and after WS and only 5 from rajas 1 from brutal and 1 from engesuto as far as store tp and of course 15 from /sam

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 4:07am by BiggHowie
#10 Feb 05 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
so would it be worth using maybe cuch mantle or some other acc pieces to be able to use meat or should i just stick with my build, get virtuoso of course, and just rock sushi?
A usable hitrate is really hard to achieve without that +25acc expansion hat, so I would just rock sushi.


Quote:
Tomoe, Rose, Lightning +1
Champ. G(10 acc/15 WSacc), Shadow, Fowling, Brutal
Haub, Bandos, lava's/Kusha's
Forager's, Virtuoso, Byakko's, Usukane sune-ate
This is about perfect for a meat build

Quote:
5 * 1.47 = 7.3
tp is rounded down at the .1 level so 47sTP on 5 hits should be: 5*1.4= 7
Quote:
By the formula wouldnt that mean my last 4 hits landed, 3 of them having DA'd?
2 DAs
1.2*(4+2)=7.2
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#11 Feb 05 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:
407 cap:

240 base skill + 16 (merits) = 250 acc
106 DEX = f(106*.75) = 79 acc (taru)
gear= 5+10+(15?)+12+7+12+5 = 66

250+79+66 = 395? or am I missing something?

he's got ~40 atk & ~15STR on you from gear, -mith is 20atk for you vs ~12acc(6%) and 10STR? I'm going to call it ~even for WS (I would definitely give it to you if you had +25acc helm), but sushi probably gives him the hits landed (haste+acc) advantage during melee.
Upon quick glance I don't see anything wrong with your math. I'll have to check stats and try again when I get a minute. Even if I trumped up the math on accident, I can still ride hasso and get to 94%.

If you account for Zanshin on TP, then sushi loses a bit of ground (high 80%s would put you near a 95% effective acc). Would be interesting to see a full analysis accounting for Zanshin and attack differences... but I don't have time/patience.

Keep in mind that Penta thrust has a pDif penalty, so increasing ATT on WS has a proportionally higher effect than melee hits.
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#12 Feb 05 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
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Polearm TP:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=108504
Polearm WS:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=108505

Cant really get much better then that IMO
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#13 Feb 06 2010 at 3:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I can still ride hasso and get to 94%.
This is true.
Quote:
Keep in mind that Penta thrust has a pDif penalty, so increasing ATT on WS has a proportionally higher effect than melee hits.
I am.
Quote:
(high 80%s would put you near a 95% effective acc)

89% would only give you an effective ~93.7%, but what you've said is somewhat misleading given than the "cap" is also effectively raised to ~97.1%, so you would still have plenty of room to grow.
Deboro wrote:
Polearm TP:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=108504
Polearm WS:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=108505

Cant really get much better then that IMO
For birds you've gone the other way and have too much acc, not enough atk. Would be better with Cerb+1/foragers and/or lava+kush if you don't need sTP. (eg. see above)

Edited, Feb 6th 2010 4:27am by shintasama
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#14 Feb 06 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Default
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The sTP puts me on a 5hit without Sam's roll, And acc is not too high still parsing 89%
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#15 Feb 08 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Have you tried riceball setup?

averages 2.1k and peaks at 2.8k for me

ws in
engetsuto+1 pole grip thipia sting
roshi jinpachi sahdow gorget brutal/hollow
hauby+1 af+1 rajas/ulthalams
foragers warwolf usukane nobushi kyahan

Tonosama riceball is dirt cheap so u can easily spam'em
having the 3 riceball items gets you 150 attack and 90 def along some double attack

yeah i always merit with either 2 bards or cor and bard

and no i dont have a parser atm to show you

just try it and decide for yourself
#16 Feb 09 2010 at 2:04 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Have you tried riceball setup?

averages 2.1k and peaks at 2.8k for me

ws in
engetsuto+1 pole grip thipia sting
roshi jinpachi sahdow gorget brutal/hollow
hauby+1 af+1 rajas/ulthalams
foragers warwolf usukane nobushi kyahan

Tonosama riceball is dirt cheap so u can easily spam'em
having the 3 riceball items gets you 150 attack and 90 def along some double attack

yeah i always merit with either 2 bards or cor and bard

and no i dont have a parser atm to show you

just try it and decide for yourself


I can't see how you are getting 2.1k average pentas when you have like 78% or so accuracy with full merits and Hasso. Are you getting acc songs/rolls?
#17 Feb 09 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Decent
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as i said, yes theres always 2 bards or a cor and a brd
1 of the songs is always madrigal

also i forgot to say, i do /war

Edit: hehe you just should try it, oh and i can break 2k with third eye/seigan up, and i'm not the only one XD theres many beast sams around

Edited, Feb 9th 2010 4:42am by Pirinolon
#18 Feb 09 2010 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pirinolon wrote:
averages 2.1k and peaks at 2.8k for me

Thats extremely high, for an average. Get a parser to show you what your average actually is on a good enough ws sample size. after 200+ ws youll start to see what your average really is, rather than eyeballing.

Not saying I dont believe you(mathematically I dont) but providing a parser to show that, would help you more, when you are offering someone a build to go by.
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#19 Feb 09 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
as i said, yes theres always 2 bards or a cor and a brd
1 of the songs is always madrigal

also i forgot to say, i do /war

Edit: hehe you just should try it, oh and i can break 2k with third eye/seigan up, and i'm not the only one XD theres many beast sams around


I usually have double march, Chaos, and Corsair's roll. I'm still not seeing how you're averaging 2.1k though. It would really help if you could parse it, showing tp/ws sets etc.
#20 Feb 09 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
5 * 1.47 = 7.3

tp is rounded down at the .1 level so 47sTP on 5 hits should be: 5*1.4= 7


So you're saying there's no difference in 40 stp and 49 stp?
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#21 Feb 09 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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Bikpik wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
5 * 1.47 = 7.3

tp is rounded down at the .1 level so 47sTP on 5 hits should be: 5*1.4= 7


So you're saying there's no difference in 40 stp and 49 stp?
For "extra" hits yes, for normal hits no.
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Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#22 Feb 14 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Can you guys help me tweak by build a bit to up my damage while using sushi?

I don't have sea access yet so I'm limited at the moment on what my options are.

My current WS set is

Tomoe/rose/tiphia
hisso/chiv/mermans/fowling
haub+1/enkidu/iota/blood
foragers/virtuoso/byakkos/usu


I usually spam kabobs but realize I should be using sushi, so what swaps would I make to up my damage? I was thinking Enkidu to okotes and virt to warwolf? I have usu pants as well but assumed the 15 dex would yield higher returns. I'm 0/9 on both acc/att rings but I know those are some obvious upgrades to what I use now. I have 4/8 plm merits, am usually /war for bird pts.
#23 Feb 15 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I was using this on my Mithra:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=44249 <- TP
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=53815 <- WS
Maxed accuracy with crab sushi.

And your setup have way much accuracy than those.

And I had 0 polearm merit.

Edited, Feb 15th 2010 5:00am by VZX
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