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Hacchonenbutsu DangozashiFollow

#1 Jan 10 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
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So keeping in mind my SAM is currently mothballed at 52 until i finish a few other jobs, i have a question about this GK. What's the big appeal? Hidden effect of boosting double attack right? Seems like town gear though to me compared to Hagun
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#2 Jan 11 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aluus wrote:
So keeping in mind my SAM is currently mothballed at 52 until i finish a few other jobs, i have a question about this GK. What's the big appeal? Hidden effect of boosting double attack right? Seems like town gear though to me compared to Hagun


no appeal, it's a worthless piece of sh*t.
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#3 Jan 11 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
no appeal, it's a worthless piece of sh*t.

It looks pretty though(mainly the guard, but beyond that, nothing special). Even as around-town gear, IMO, there's better to have for easier to obtain.
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#4 Jan 11 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
There's nothing remotely worthwhile about the weapon whatsoever. The delay is too low to make it worthwhile in any decent six-hit setup, the damage isn't amazing at all, and the double attack rate is so miniscule that it might as well not exist at all.
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#5 Jan 11 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Good
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IIRC It has the delay for a 7-hit with 1 more sTP than a standard 6-hit build, but that doesn't matter anyway, since the improved DoT is overwhelmed by the fact that a large majority of your damage comes from WSs.
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#6 Jan 13 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well uh, at least it has the longest name of any other weapon in the game? I've played with it a little. It's kind of interesting, something a little different but really just a toy. Even in cases where you'd wanna swing fast (farming things that die in a few hits), soboro will be better.
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#7 Jan 15 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
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Well, in theory, may be a decent weapon in situations where constant TP wipe or Amnesia is a problem. A JP friend who wanted one once described it as swinging a katana at almost dagger speed if one has March and Haste and Hasso. (I've yet to test that theory...)

If nothing else, though, it's got a really cool name. "Hacchonenbutsu" is supposedly a Buddhist prayer for the dead, while "Dangozashi" I think is "dumpling skewer"--as if running through the opponent is as easy as skewering a dumpling.

The name is from a historical sword, worn by Suzuki Magoichi, a Sengoku Period (Warring States Era?) "musketeer" if I read the JP info correctly.

* * *

It also seems like a good choice when synch'ing below Lv.50.

Edited, Jan 15th 2010 4:40am by IfritnoItazura
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#8 Jan 15 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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Not that I particularly like this GKT, but I'd like to point out that the whole point of X-hit builds is to get to a lower amount of time between weaponskills.

E.g. for a 6 hit build with a 450 delay weapon, you're looking at WS + 5x 450 delay before you WS again, or 2250 delay. For a 378 delay weapon w/ a 7 hit build (1 more storeTP), you're looking at WS + 6x 378, or 2268 delay. So, the difference in delay is pretty minimal. As was already pointed out, the lower damage weapon will hurt your WS damage quite a bit, so the higher delay/higher damage gtks are better.
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#9 Jan 15 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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tordall wrote:
Not that I particularly like this GKT, but I'd like to point out that the whole point of X-hit builds is to get to a lower amount of time between weaponskills.

E.g. for a 6 hit build with a 450 delay weapon, you're looking at WS + 5x 450 delay before you WS again, or 2250 delay. For a 378 delay weapon w/ a 7 hit build (1 more storeTP), you're looking at WS + 6x 378, or 2268 delay. So, the difference in delay is pretty minimal. As was already pointed out, the lower damage weapon will hurt your WS damage quite a bit, so the higher delay/higher damage gtks are better.


you'll also get a greater increase in WS frequency going from 6 to 5 swings to WS than going from 8 to 7. this is, in part, why 1handers don't make X-hit builds.

re: "swinging GK" above, soboro vs hacchowhatever:

soboro: 50*2 = 100
haccho: 80 * 1.2 * 1.025 = 98.4

those numbers being weapon damage + fSTR * DA rate for soboro, and WD+fSTR * speed advantage * inherent DA effect for haccho. DoT will be around even, while soboro will WS a significant amount more, or generate more /DNC TP, or whatever.
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#10 Jan 15 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
If nothing else, though, it's got a really cool name. "Hacchonenbutsu" is supposedly a Buddhist prayer for the dead, while "Dangozashi" I think is "dumpling skewer"--as if running through the opponent is as easy as skewering a dumpling.
Close, nenbutsu is a meditation prayer to Amitābha Buddha asking to be reborn into the "pure land" jōdo where they can learn to become Buddha's themselves. Thus it's not so much a prayer "for" the dead, as a prayer for (self) deliverance after death. Haccho can either be read as "8 times" or as a reference to the Eightfold path. "Dangozashi" act of stabbing/skewering dumplings, however, given the eightfold path's rule against killing, it's more likely literally a joke (fast/accurate) about stabbing dumplings instead of people.


It's certainly an interesting GK (I did the original DA testing :D), but it's just not that good. Either Hagun (WS dmg) or Soboro (DoT, WS freq) will blow it out of the water.

Edited, Jan 15th 2010 4:02pm by shintasama
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#11 Jan 16 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Interesting. Any idea why Suzuki Magoichi named his sword thus?
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#12 Jan 16 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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No clue, not familiar with him, was it a ceremonial sword maybe? If his unit used rifles primarily it may not have been used.
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#13 Jan 17 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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shintasama wrote:
Quote:
If nothing else, though, it's got a really cool name. "Hacchonenbutsu" is supposedly a Buddhist prayer for the dead, while "Dangozashi" I think is "dumpling skewer"--as if running through the opponent is as easy as skewering a dumpling.
Close, nenbutsu is a meditation prayer to Amitābha Buddha asking to be reborn into the "pure land" jōdo where they can learn to become Buddha's themselves. Thus it's not so much a prayer "for" the dead, as a prayer for (self) deliverance after death. Haccho can either be read as "8 times" or as a reference to the Eightfold path. "Dangozashi" act of stabbing/skewering dumplings, however, given the eightfold path's rule against killing, it's more likely literally a joke (fast/accurate) about stabbing dumplings instead of people.


It's certainly an interesting GK (I did the original DA testing :D), but it's just not that good. Either Hagun (WS dmg) or Soboro (DoT, WS freq) will blow it out of the water.

Edited, Jan 15th 2010 4:02pm by shintasama

From the Japanese wiki, Nenbutsu is as described above, Haccho in this case is a measure of distance, around 900 meters. Hacchonenbutsu comes from the story that a guy was cut by this sword while chanting Nenbutsu and walked Haccho before falling over dead in two pieces.

The Dangozashi part comes from the owner of the sword following the guy he thought he'd just killed, using the sword as a staff. After he stopped he noticed that he'd picked up a bunch of rocks on his sword like dango on a stick.

In other words, this was one SHARP katana.
#14 Jan 18 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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that works:
丁 chō (misc counter)= handled objects, carpenters' tools, scissors, pistols, saws, baskets, candles, forks, former unit of length, = 119.16 yards, 360 shaku, 109 m, 60 ken; cakes of tofu, servings (cutlets, noodles...), slices, sheets bound Japanese style; town blocks/streets/paths
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#15 Jan 18 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: Blank

Edited, Mar 13th 2011 6:35pm by AyriaBismarck
#16 Jan 29 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Really, if you wanna hit more than once with the GK, use a Soboro, if your not fussed with that... then get a Hagun :P
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