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can someone explain SAM/RNG?Follow

#1 Dec 11 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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from what i've heard it's just for the fact that you can build TP fast and just fire off a sidewinder and because SAM has a fairly decent ranged rating, and /RNG gives acc. i was just wondering what else there is to it if there is anything.
#2 Dec 11 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I used to be good because you could use soboro to gain tp quickly (150%+ for any reasonable chance of landing WS), but get the dmg of a stronger weapon on WS and piercing bonus w/ bow. Now that they buffed YGK there is no point in doing it since you can get higher total WS dmg/time just WSing with soboro. In addition you're able to use /DRG, don't to move out of melee range to get best WS dmg, don't have to merit archery, don't have to own/carry an entire other set of gear, etc etc.


tl;dr: SAM/RNG is dead.
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#3 Dec 11 2009 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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shintasama wrote:
tl;dr: SAM/RNG is dead.
Somewhere I have a post explaining this. >_>
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#4narusegwa, Posted: Dec 14 2009 at 2:02 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) SAM/RNG is not dead:/ if you have decent gears and archery merits like I do. you can still out dmg any polearm/GKT SAM at 55~64 ish:/..
#5 Dec 14 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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For level 75 parties and events (where applicable):

Sams with yoichi can be insanely powerful. For everyone one else, there are GK and polearms.

As has been alluded to, the 2 hand buff (etc) has simply given sams much better options plus 2.5 years (?) back ranged attacks were stronger than today.



Sam/rng slightly weaker

Sam with GK or Pole much stronger




Edited, Dec 14th 2009 3:06pm by Taurusrexx
#6 Dec 14 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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#7 Dec 14 2009 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Taurusrexx wrote:
For level 75 parties and events (where applicable):

Sams with yoichi can be insanely powerful. For everyone one else, there are GK and polearms.

As has been alluded to, the 2 hand buff (etc) has simply given sams much better options plus 2.5 years (?) back ranged attacks were stronger than today.



Sam/rng slightly weaker

Sam with GK or Pole much stronger




Edited, Dec 14th 2009 3:06pm by Taurusrexx


yoichi SAM = SAM/WAR or SAM/DRG. the whole point of yoichi is to spam namas. the whole point of subbing RNG is getting access to sidewinder.

re: "lol yoichi", see this post and draw the conclusions i hinted at in the parenthetical edit. also remember that namas has a fixed enmity generation value. if you're spamming 1k namas arrows in a small group activity, instead of generating roughly 4000 CE and 1300 VE every namas arrow, you'll generate 180 CE and 480 VE (in other words, 1 other WS--gekko, sidewinder, whatever--generates about 7 times as much hate as 1 namas arrow). that's awesome.
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#8 Dec 14 2009 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm the tank in most of the stuff I do on SAM already, and I care very little about having hate in merit parties in particular. I'm fine getting more hate if I can do more dmg and I honestly believe that a fully pimped levi SAM would significantly outdo yoichi vs birds. In the situations that I do care about not having hate I wouldn't use Soboro, and if you're going to sit back and just fire you'd be better off RNG main w/ Coronach ya?

Yoichi (Shigeto+4) is like picking up Ragnarok, sure it's better than Subduer, but Subduer wasn't a good option to begin with. "insanely powerful" is certainly not what I'd use to describe it.

Edited, Dec 14th 2009 9:29pm by shintasama
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#9 Dec 14 2009 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:
I'm the tank in most of the stuff I do on SAM already, and I care very little about having hate in merit parties in particular. I'm fine getting more hate if I can do more dmg and I honestly believe that a fully pimped levi SAM would significantly outdo yoichi vs birds. In the situations that I do care about not having hate I wouldn't use Soboro, and if you're going to sit back and just fire you'd be better off RNG main w/ Coronach ya?

Yoichi (Shigeto+4) is like picking up Ragnarok, sure it's better than Subduer, but Subduer wasn't a good option to begin with. "insanely powerful" is certainly not what I'd use to describe it.

Edited, Dec 14th 2009 9:29pm by shintasama



I'll be looking for you to post that.






Edited, Dec 14th 2009 6:51pm by Taurusrexx

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 12:23am by Taurusrexx
#10 Dec 14 2009 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a parse of me doing 1.6% under a yoichi SAM, while using soboro (I don't actually consider it any more valid than the crappy e-peen parses on BG either). I'm pretty sure a decent levi SAM beats my soboro build by quit a bit more than 1.6% vs birds though.
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#11 Dec 15 2009 at 12:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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shintasama wrote:
I'm the tank in most of the stuff I do on SAM already, and I care very little about having hate in merit parties in particular. I'm fine getting more hate if I can do more dmg and I honestly believe that a fully pimped levi SAM would significantly outdo yoichi vs birds. In the situations that I do care about not having hate I wouldn't use Soboro, and if you're going to sit back and just fire you'd be better off RNG main w/ Coronach ya?

Yoichi (Shigeto+4) is like picking up Ragnarok, sure it's better than Subduer, but Subduer wasn't a good option to begin with. "insanely powerful" is certainly not what I'd use to describe it.

Edited, Dec 14th 2009 9:29pm by shintasama


in the post i linked to, i explained how the soboro namas spammer could increase his damage by 50% by simply capping melee ACC and averaging a modest 4.5 strikes per WS (with SAM roll! i regularly had a 5-hit in my old einherjar ls due to SAM roll--the apoc DRK ls leader insisted on it in our pt. you can bet i averaged fewer than 4 strikes per WS -_-). i didn't even mention namas macro improvements (which this gimp yoichi SAM surely must have needed considering he played so god awful), and i made no effort to account for aggressiveness in targeting.

show me how you can increase the polearm SAM in that parse's damage by 40% and i'll take the "lol namas damage" seriously. you can opine about the utility of parses, but this is theorycrafting. cythriell's melee average was 193. 193/1.25/94 = 1.6, so he had about 640~ ATT from food, chaos roll, minuet--is he to spam red curry to improve? crit% was 16%, so he's not going to get there via crits. maybe he needs to WS more aggressively? no way, he averaged 3.2 hits per WS, that's undeniably strong. WS average was 1545... is he going to get 40% more damage by raising that? by switching from tomoe to leviathan's?

couple all that with the fact that this polearm SAM gimps his parties with minuet and SAM roll which disproportionately favor him over the namas user, and it seems incontrovertible that SAM/DRG namas spam > polearm SAM. and there's no situational aspect here--lower the buffs and the namas SAM keeps GK ACC and ATT, while the polearm SAM starts whiffing.

in the right context i buy amano > yoichi SAM, or apoc > yoichi SAM, but polearm SAM falls universally below the potential of yoichi. piercing bonus can't make up the difference when the big shiny WS is piercing.
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#12 Dec 15 2009 at 1:16 AM Rating: Default
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You're justifying it with a parse (#1) on players you/I don't know (#2) that don't appear to know what they're doing (#3) from a player (I at least) don't trust (#4)?



pass
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#13 Dec 15 2009 at 1:20 AM Rating: Default
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A polearm sam built to the T compared to a Yochi sam is hands down polearm. I have a parse of said competition that I posted in a thread not to long ago, there on our server even. I was sad by the low performance of Yochi.
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#14 Dec 15 2009 at 1:43 AM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:
You're justifying it with a parse (#1) on players you/I don't know (#2) that don't appear to know what they're doing (#3) from a player (I at least) don't trust (#4)?



pass


well, since ad hominem stuff is more relevant than the numbers i provided, and its possible that the polearm SAM was taking 5 seconds to get to each mob, maybe my claims AREN'T vastly more well-supported than your biased speculation. or, theorycrafting can be applied to parses and we know how pDIF and base damage work, so we can look at the potential of namas spam and polearm SAM.
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#15 Dec 15 2009 at 1:57 AM Rating: Default
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Potential Possibility and Projected proformances are never as they seem, Im not trying to tell you your wrong only conveying when I have seen, I would love you get you in and have you see Cyth's Sam in action I wasnt sure if you took into account Cyth was on a 4-hit the whole time.
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#16 Dec 15 2009 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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Deboro wrote:
Potential Possibility and Projected proformances are never as they seem, Im not trying to tell you your wrong only conveying when I have seen, I would love you get you in and have you see Cyth's Sam in action I wasnt sure if you took into account Cyth was on a 4-hit the whole time.


well, that's the thing. the stronger cyth actually is, the less room polearm SAM has to improve in comparison to the namas arrow SAM. the really bad part of the namas guy in your parse is that he averaged more than 6 hits between WSs, which means he WSd less often than a guy with a 7-hit setup, but he had a 5-hit! that, and his atrocious ACC is really hard to explain... if you get yoichi with the intention of using it on SAM, you'd think you'd at least have GK and archery merits... i have to wonder if he isn't one of those guys who just imagines his ACC is capped everywhere and doesn't wear any ACC gear or something.
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#17 Dec 15 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Deboro wrote:
A polearm sam built to the T compared to a Yochi sam is hands down polearm. I have a parse of said competition that I posted in a thread not to long ago, there on our server even. I was sad by the low performance of Yochi.
That SAM was making some pretty blatant mistakes though. Which is just more evidence that parses only mean "this person did better than that person", not "this gear works better than that gear".
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#18 Dec 15 2009 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
Deboro wrote:
Potential Possibility and Projected proformances are never as they seem, Im not trying to tell you your wrong only conveying when I have seen, I would love you get you in and have you see Cyth's Sam in action I wasnt sure if you took into account Cyth was on a 4-hit the whole time.


well, that's the thing. the stronger cyth actually is, the less room polearm SAM has to improve in comparison to the namas arrow SAM. the really bad part of the namas guy in your parse is that he averaged more than 6 hits between WSs, which means he WSd less often than a guy with a 7-hit setup, but he had a 5-hit! that, and his atrocious ACC is really hard to explain... if you get yoichi with the intention of using it on SAM, you'd think you'd at least have GK and archery merits... i have to wonder if he isn't one of those guys who just imagines his ACC is capped everywhere and doesn't wear any ACC gear or something.


With zero merits in Archery and 8 in GK, a 22% haste Sam/war sobo/yoichi build can hit 415 acc before food while at the same time having a Namas WS build that would reach 493 racc (also before food.)
#19 Dec 15 2009 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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Taurusrexx wrote:
milich wrote:
Deboro wrote:
Potential Possibility and Projected proformances are never as they seem, Im not trying to tell you your wrong only conveying when I have seen, I would love you get you in and have you see Cyth's Sam in action I wasnt sure if you took into account Cyth was on a 4-hit the whole time.


well, that's the thing. the stronger cyth actually is, the less room polearm SAM has to improve in comparison to the namas arrow SAM. the really bad part of the namas guy in your parse is that he averaged more than 6 hits between WSs, which means he WSd less often than a guy with a 7-hit setup, but he had a 5-hit! that, and his atrocious ACC is really hard to explain... if you get yoichi with the intention of using it on SAM, you'd think you'd at least have GK and archery merits... i have to wonder if he isn't one of those guys who just imagines his ACC is capped everywhere and doesn't wear any ACC gear or something.


With zero merits in Archery and 8 in GK, a 22% haste Sam/war sobo/yoichi build can hit 415 acc before food while at the same time having a Namas WS build that would reach 493 racc (also before food.)


doesn't namas get an ACC bonus anyway? i'm not sure that it does, but i have a feeling it does (i've read some things suggesting it, but they could have meant that the people that use it always use a lot of RACC). i'd merit archery with yoichi just b/c i'd certainly level RNG to 75 if i had it.
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#20 Dec 16 2009 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
doesn't namas get an ACC bonus anyway? i'm not sure that it does, but i have a feeling it does (i've read some things suggesting it, but they could have meant that the people that use it always use a lot of RACC). i'd merit archery with yoichi just b/c i'd certainly level RNG to 75 if i had it.


Yes. The racc bonus from namas applies on the WS and during the aftermath.



Edited, Apr 18th 2010 1:30am by Taurusrexx
#24 Dec 16 2009 at 4:53 AM Rating: Default
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Yes, Namas gets a racc bonus.

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 12:04am by Taurusrexx
#26 Dec 16 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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I have to agree with Pahn on this one, for starters, that Yoici SAM in the parse was all kinds of faulty, and has probably never spent much time on forums learning how to really max his SAM. (I said in other thread) but his ACC was obviously the fault of partly due to wearing Askar over Haub+1 (8%loss), and he treated Namas Arrow which potentially has an ACC bonus like all other ranged ws's (excluding SS/SW) like he was firing off Sidewinder's due to how long it took him to shoot each Namas.

Take the best of the best Soboro SAM/DRG, and exchange his YGK for a hateless, big hitting, piercing WS with all the correct WS gear for Namas, and that SAM should take SAM to new heights.

You have the melee weapon that allows SAM to build TP the fastest, with a piercing WS thats actually safer and easier to gear for than Penta is, and you could possibly get away with gearing more for STR/RATT (would need some number crunching to confirm that though).

That build could be used for a number of things that SAM does too (unlike PA SAM), HNM's spring to mind, you could melee & fire off a low hate WS making less hate overall then other DD's.

Youci SAM is very different to a SAM/RNG mainly because:

*You can use /DRG or /WAR
*You can fire off WS's @ 100%TP
*You potentially don't need nearly as much RACC in gear to fire it off, making more room for STR or RATT.
*You can safely be the most aggressive DD in your pty, FT Hasso, with little risk.

I personally think that I could do more impressive things with a Yoici then I could an Amano, just a shame yoici costs in the region of 200M gil.
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#27 Dec 16 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Merits also seems a bit like wasted effort regarding yochi since the appeal seems to spam a hateless WS with pretty impressive modifiers.

Perks of Yochi
Hateless
40% str and agi (both strong, useful stats)
2.75 multiplier
piercing
ranged attack bonuses, 1fstr=2str
119 base damage weapon skill (+~54 damage base str/agi)

Add in gear like osode, s. kotes, hachi pants/shoes you can easily get high damage namas numbers with no hate faster than you cold with a GK.

I'm not sure how much YGK's attack bonus would put it ahead, but Yochi definitely has substantially higher damage before multpliers, with a stronger multiplier. And while you could argue 75% str on YGK is better, yochi has higher weapon rank and gets more fstr (twice as easily as GK), plus it gets the added 40% from your agi before stacking stats.

Definitely requires a different style of playing sam to max out.
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#28 Dec 17 2009 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
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Definitely requires a different style of playing sam to max out.


Not actually as different as you might think. A Polearm set takes a lot more thought.

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#29 Dec 17 2009 at 5:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd still go /RNG with Yoichinoyumi. Barrage (and a possible x3 Barrage) is way too amazing to leave aside. Not to mention the major Acc bonus, which allows a couple of gear exchange to counter the loss of the attack/haste(?) bonuses from the other subs (Byrnie +1 for example comes to mind)

Also gotta consider juggling between full R.Att/STR Namas and full R.att/STR Sidewinder, making use of the bow's natural R.Acc plus the R.Acc bonus from Namas aftermath effect, meaning you can easily counter Sidewinder's R.Acc penalty.

Edited, Dec 17th 2009 7:22am by sbrubles
#30 Dec 17 2009 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok not stating one side or the other for SAM/RNG but I do have a correction to make to many people's builds / thoughts. ANY situation where you would want to "save to 150" for Sidewinder you would be better off using a Martial Bow over a Shig(+1). Martials is weaker but it allows you to fire off @100 but get the acc of a 200 TP SW thus allowing you to take full advantage of Soboro's massive TP gain.
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#31 Dec 17 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Not actually as different as you might think. A Polearm set takes a lot more thought.


How would polearm take more thought? It's just a generic 2-hander multihit WS build with gimp acc, the only trick is you want to keep a 5 hit (whereas most retain a 6 hit).

Yochi would be more confusing since it doesn't follow the typical build patterns for a ranged WS (since most require tons of racc and have weaker stat modifiers).

Also, /rng would prolly fail to /war or /drg since sam can use soboro to great efficiency to spam 4/5 hit yochis in as litle as 2 attack rounds. Were you to be fighting where you weren't meleeing at all, then /rng would work, but unlike a rng, sam doesn't really want to RA for its TP.

If you were purely RAing for TP you could use 120 arrows and 29stp in gear to get 25tp a shot, which could rather interesting and easily attained. You could also use a rondo with 16stp with sam's roll to get ~33.3 tp per shot (lucky or 6+ would do it) which could be pretty crazy TP gain when you could barrage into enough tp to sekki yourself.
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#32 Dec 17 2009 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Also, /rng would prolly fail to /war or /drg since sam can use soboro to great efficiency to spam 4/5 hit yochis in as litle as 2 attack rounds. Were you to be fighting where you weren't meleeing at all, then /rng would work, but unlike a rng, sam doesn't really want to RA for its TP.
I'm pretty sure his point is just to be able to use sidewinder reliably (hint: you don't have access to any archery skills other than namas otherwise), which is considerably stronger than namas. You'd still use soboro, you'd just not have access to (as much) haste/jumps/da/berserk. Still doesn't help -ratk at melee distance (or tp generation rounds lost from moving, which is probably worse at a decent buff rate), SAM's lackluster skill (-atk as well as acc), lack of piercing during tp phase, etcetc.

I'd probably go /DRG, but I'm "anti-/RNG biased", and by that I mean "have been completely unimpressed with every yoichi SAM or SAM/RNG I've seen and would rather see people burn coins on horn/shield/GK/scythe/sword"
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#33 Dec 17 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Edit:
lol made this wall of text and only after that I read Shinta's post and realized I misunderstood Req's post. Yes, by suggesting /RNG with Yoichi I did mean meleeing + Barrage for TP, Namas + Sidewinder for WS, as Shinta said.






Quote:
Also, /rng would prolly fail to /war or /drg since sam can use soboro to great efficiency to spam 4/5 hit yochis in as litle as 2 attack rounds. Were you to be fighting where you weren't meleeing at all, then /rng would work, but unlike a rng, sam doesn't really want to RA for its TP

Well lets think of it for a minute. I'm not even questioning zerg fights cuz in that case /DRG or /WAR wouldn't stand a chance against /RNG, assuming a Yoichi SAM.

Also not gonna get into non zerged HNMs cuz I find it somewhat silly that someone would have Yoichi and not have RNG to use the bow on longer fights, or that a SAM would have wasted all that gil on it instead of Amano if he does not have RNG.

So merits...
* /WAR won't speed up TP building while with Soboro, but it will raise DMG dealt by both meleeing and WSing;

* /DRG will offer 5% haste, Jump and High Jump, 10 accuracy, 10 attack, all of which are amazing for the TP build;

* /RNG will give 22 acc, which should allow a meriting SAM to swap off hauby in exchange of maybe a Byrnie +1 to make up for the attack loss, Barrage - which will take advantage of the relic's hidden effect, allowing up to 4.5k Barrages (on a long CD) while building instant TP, and will grant Sidewinder, which is more DMGing yet much less accurate then Namas.

Without further analysis, I think we can take /WAR away from the competition. It will loose. /DRG seems to build TP faster, even because that 5% haste doesn't depend on luck with Barrages. So I think it's between a slightly faster and safer TP build, against major WS DMG (firing Sidewinders with Namas accuracy) + possible absurd Barrage DMG.

Edit:
Lets take a half hour interval:
* a /DRG would have gotten 30 Jumps, rounding up to favor /DRG, that's around 60 hits. On a 6hit build, that's 10 extra WSs
* a /RNG would have gotten 6 Barrages, anywhere between 1.5k and 4.5k. The Barrages can be assumed as 6 instant WSs. Due to firing delay, if you do not open a fight with Barrage after finishing the previous with a WS, you'll rely heavily on Sekkanoki to make this work.

Namas DMG would be around the same for both, however /RNG has the option of using Namas > Sidewinder > Sidewinder > Namas > Sidewinder > Sidewinder, and so on. The amount of Sidewinders between Namas would depend on how fast you're building TP, but basically assuming you always toss a Namas right before Aftermath effect wears off, you can use both Barrage and Sidewinder with full R.Acc, meaning you can easily swap off every single piece of R.Acc gear for R.Att/STR.

I do not remember how much DMG we can average on each 2hit jump and I don't know how much can we expect from a well geared SAM's Namas, so I can't go beyond this by myself.

Edited, Dec 17th 2009 1:21pm by sbrubles

Edited, Dec 17th 2009 1:32pm by sbrubles
#34 Dec 17 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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* a /RNG would have gotten 6 Barrages, anywhere between 1.5k and 4.5k. The Barrages can be assumed as 6 instant WSs. Due to firing delay, if you do not open a fight with Barrage after finishing the previous with a WS, you'll rely heavily on Sekkanoki to make this work.


So basically, its Barrage + utility to use SW VS jumps & 5% Haste?

Your making Barrage sound better than it is too, whats the % of Barrage doing 3xDMG? ~2-3%? At capped RACC, you'd have more chance at missing the first hit of Barrage then having one do 3x DMG (if thats how it works).

The reason so many Yoici SAM's are fail is because they all turn up to meripo's /RNG.

5% Haste is just to powerful when its taking you from 65% to 70% haste, which in a meripo, thats the minimum it should do for a well geared SAM with Hasso up. Lets not forget, Namas Arrow will be doing alot more DMG than Soboro's YGK for a fraction of hate. The build isn't that different either because TP set stays the same, its just your WS set that needs tweaking, and you can still use many of your already useful STR pieces like Osode, Alky's (not lol SKote), Flame Ring etc while mixing with some RATT/RACC.

These kinda threads do get a little annoying after a while unfortunately, because we are officially talking about the most expensive investment in the whole of ffxi, even more expensive than other relics.

Edited, Dec 17th 2009 2:07pm by Sandmasterr
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#35 Dec 17 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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idk, don't forget about Fuma Shurikin NIN/RNG!
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#36 Dec 17 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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So basically, its Barrage + utility to use SW VS jumps & 5% Haste?

I think that's it, the rest should be balanced, I think.

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Your making Barrage sound better than it is too, whats the % of Barrage doing 3xDMG? ~2-3%? At capped RACC, you'd have more chance at missing the first hit of Barrage then having one do 3x DMG (if thats how it works).

Normally I wouldn't give so much credit to Barrage because of its firing delay, which in essence just steals from a well hasted SAM 1, maybe 1.5 swinging round. But the hidden effect is somewhat frequent and very powerful. I do not know the proc rate, can't even give you an estimated number >< I dont think it's that low tho, the few relic wielders with whom I played had it proc rather often (this was easier to notice to see with the Apoc DRK in Salvages). Sad part is really that I can't provide better data in order to solve this problem.

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These kinda threads do get a little annoying after a while unfortunately, because we are officially talking about the most expensive investment in the whole of ffxi, even more expensive than other relics.

I think relics were becoming close to a reality for many of us, not only those who had 10 characters with 100 crafting and owned 3 Dyna LSs, but in special for those of us who played for very long time and made the right investments prior to the inflation period. I was pretty close from Annihilator myself when I left. I think we'd be experiencing the discussion of this thread 1st hand soon.
#37 Dec 17 2009 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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sbrubles wrote:
Quote:
So basically, its Barrage + utility to use SW VS jumps & 5% Haste?

I think that's it, the rest should be balanced, I think.

Quote:
Your making Barrage sound better than it is too, whats the % of Barrage doing 3xDMG? ~2-3%? At capped RACC, you'd have more chance at missing the first hit of Barrage then having one do 3x DMG (if thats how it works).

Normally I wouldn't give so much credit to Barrage because of its firing delay, which in essence just steals from a well hasted SAM 1, maybe 1.5 swinging round. But the hidden effect is somewhat frequent and very powerful. I do not know the proc rate, can't even give you an estimated number >< I dont think it's that low tho, the few relic wielders with whom I played had it proc rather often (this was easier to notice to see with the Apoc DRK in Salvages). Sad part is really that I can't provide better data in order to solve this problem.

Quote:
These kinda threads do get a little annoying after a while unfortunately, because we are officially talking about the most expensive investment in the whole of ffxi, even more expensive than other relics.

I think relics were becoming close to a reality for many of us, not only those who had 10 characters with 100 crafting and owned 3 Dyna LSs, but in special for those of us who played for very long time and made the right investments prior to the inflation period. I was pretty close from Annihilator myself when I left. I think we'd be experiencing the discussion of this thread 1st hand soon.


the triple/2.5ple dmg proc rate is like 5%~ or below. won't make any difference at all to the comparison.

also, (524/110)+1.7+1.1 = 7.5~ seconds to fire off a barrage with yoichi. at 157~ delay, that's about 3 attack rounds you miss (so about 6 soboro swings). given the small chance at full hit barrages, this means that the well-hasted yoichi SAM/RNG would end up doing less damage by using barrage than just letting it sit.
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#38 Dec 17 2009 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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based on my last parse v an apoc DRK it's ~10%
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#39 Dec 18 2009 at 4:42 AM Rating: Default
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Even so, I was expecting a lot more then that, to actually make what I was saying work correctly. Yeah, I guess not even Yoichi can save /RNG for merits if the hidden effect proc rate is anywhere around these number you guys are saying.

Edited, Dec 18th 2009 5:47am by sbrubles
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