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#1 Dec 04 2009 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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So I haven't done a polearm party yet, and I've got a really quick question about my builds. So the biggest question I have is about my penta acc. I have 372 acc in seigan and 382 in hasso. I'll post my gear after this if you wanna look and criticize but I want to know if using Diabolos' earring is better than using brutal. I'm not 100% on how DA works for multi hits. Wiki says it can proc on first 2 hits, but does that mean it can just proc once on either or can proc on both?

My gear is

TP
tomoe/pole/none/tiphia
askar/love/fowling/brutal
hauby+1/Hachiman/Ulthalam/rajas
amemet+1/swift/byakko/usukane

WS
tomoe/pole/none/tihpia
/O hat/love/fowling/brutal(or Diabolos)
Hauby+1/Myochin+1/ulthalam/rajas
amemet+1/life/byakko/usukane

I've got full store TP merits to make it 56 sTP for TP and 48(or 47) for WS making my 5 hit build.

Also I know I could work on rose strap to get rid of hachi hands and still keep my 5 hit on a 3 hit penta.
#2 Dec 05 2009 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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Assuming you have 0 polearm merits, here's what I pull up on FFXI calculator with your WS setup vs. birds with Brutal on and using my SAM/WAR Elvaan's base DEX since I don't know what race you are:

No food:
Without Hasso: 77.7%
With Hasso: 82.7%

Crab Sushi:
Without Hasso: 95%
With Hasso: 95%

You're 13 acc over cap and 23 over with Hasso, so I'd use Brutal Earring and also consider switching Life Belt for Potent, O-Hat for Gnadbhod's Helm, Shura Kabuto, or Hissho Hachimaki, and maybe Myochin +1 for O Kote/B Kote (at least I think 20/22 attack does more for Penta than 7STR/7DEX anyway at capped accuracy, might be wrong).



Edited, Dec 5th 2009 1:36am by Dudester
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#3 Dec 05 2009 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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1) eat crab sushi (important), swap gear for more atk/str on WS and more haste during tp
2) max 8 "swings" per WS, 2 hit/first two hit assertions were based on tests with poor sample size and thus are untrustworthy, people have reported 3-4 DAs but lack of SS/possible tp complications leaves them untrustworthy, in any case the odds of getting more than 2 DAs is very small (which is why it's soo hard to test) and 5% DA beats the **** out of 3acc, especially since you will have excess acc with sushi.
3) I would keep pole and get rid of hachi hands for more haste. The odds of missing 2+ additional hits on a penta w/ capped acc is not very high (~1.4%, for a ~.35% gain overall), you'll get more benefit from swinging faster on avg.

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maybe Myochin +1 for O Kote/B Kote (at least I think 20/22 attack does more for Penta than 7STR/7DEX anyway at capped accuracy, might be wrong).
You're right

Edited, Dec 5th 2009 2:29am by shintasama
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#4 Dec 05 2009 at 4:23 AM Rating: Good
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you can DA on either or both of the first 2 hits of a multi-hit WS. armando proved this on ffxionline by taking a large sample of WSs, projecting the probability of 1 hit, 2 hit, 3 hit, 4 hit, etc, and then matching up his actual distribution of 1 hit, 2 hit, etc with the expected results. the lack of a single screenshot showing a 3 DA WS given the amount of penta thrusts that have been done in ffxi's lifetime is further proof.

that said, fulltime brutal. 5% DA is like 10~ ACC for TP and slightly less for WS. diabolos won't come close regardless of your ACC.
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#5 Dec 05 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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So there's nothing I can do besides eat sushi? I was thinking of adding 6 polearm merits to try to be able to eat meat, but if that won't help I probably won't do them.
#6 Dec 05 2009 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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this one Milich? Sample sizes seem low for the claims they're trying to make, and there is the strong possibility of cumulative estimation error due to the "10/1028" issue we see with haste. I'll look at it more later.

armado wrote:
Like I stated earlier, Fast Blade has an 18% chance of a single DA. Theoretically that would mean 36 of the 200 Fast Blades should've DA'd. Only 85.74% of those will land all their hits, so we should've seen ~30.87 of them land. That's pretty close to the 31 I got. That proves that each hit gets its own individual chance at DA, and the 9 TP, 322 damage Fast Blade is proof that the game allows multiple DAs within the same WS. I only got a single 4 hit Fast Blade, but that's to be expected, since the odds it occurring are only .8145% with accuracy factored in.
?

Klaire wrote:
So there's nothing I can do besides eat sushi? I was thinking of adding 6 polearm merits to try to be able to eat meat, but if that won't help I probably won't do them.
You "could" switch to ohat/life/cuch/merits/outside buffs/etcetc, but the best bet is to eat sushi. If you have merit points to burn 6 more polearm might not be a bad idea in any case, +12atk plus possibly more gear you can switch out is still pretty good.

Edited, Dec 5th 2009 1:37pm by shintasama
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#7 Dec 05 2009 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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starting from p4 he does vorpal blade testing (with additional data from someone doing rampage) and gets the 1st 2 hits result. in the tests, if every hit got its own check, there would be a 30%~ chance of seeing a WS with a single DA, but only 14%~ chance if only the first 2 swings get checked. the data ended up around 13%~ single DAs.
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