Subjobs...Follow

So, here's the thing. I know I'm taking up DRG eventually; it's 36 at the moment. I need /SAM for it, but I'm worried that in the process of leveling /SAM I'll like the job so much I just won't stop, and I'll take it to 75.

That, itself, isn't really a problem. The issue is that my WAR is 18 (for my 36 DRG), so I'm wondering, if I pick up a Wyvern Earring + Mantle at/before 30, is it possible to level SAM all the way to 75 using only /DRG? Obviously I would use /DNC in Campaign and soloing, etc., but for party play is mainly what I want to know. I'm sure I'll need /WAR and /THF if I take it to 75, and I suppose /RNG wouldn't kill me to have just in case (especially if the Ranged Attack update turns out to be nice), but I'm thinking strictly for XP parties here.

I know /DRG is good for SAM at 75 with the proper gear setup, but I'm not sure if not having /WAR is going to gimp me while leveling. I checked the sticky guide, but it didn't even mention /DRG (and seems to think that 2 STR still equals 1 Attack for 2-handers).

Edit: If it helps, I'm planning on the following TP set @ 75 if I do take SAM all the way:

Hagun/Rose Strap/Tiphia Sting
Walahra Turban/Chivalrous Chain/Brutal Earring/Wyvern Earring
Haubergeon/Dusk Gloves/Ecphoria Ring/Rajas Ring
Amemet Mantle +1/Swift Belt/Byakko's Haidate/Fuma Sune-Ate

Bold = Don't have it yet

Edit x2: Will probably use Hachiman hands to maintain a 6-hit until I get full sTP merits and can switch to the Dusk.

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 11:59am by Aliekber

Yeah, /DRG will do fine all the way.

Very few situations in which you may need to go /war, and most of them involve HNMs without (or with not enough) BRDs. Depending on the gear you'll have available and the speed with which you'll merit, /THF's pretty meh. After you're well merited and geared, you'll probably only use /THF for very tactical fights, like low manning some HNMs on melee mode. It's convenient to have, but rare to use.

Regarding /RNG... idk about that update you speak of. /RNG is fun, but that's about the best of it. You could argue about its uses on kited HNM fights, or several palace / garden sea fights, but most shells would find a way to divide better the manpower to cover that sort of farming. What I mean is, right now /RNG is useless.

About your choice of gear, considering you want to work on DRG also, I'd sugest putting some effort on Ace's Helm or Askar - unless you're planning on going full Usukane. Also, there are several other choices for ammo spot currently, might wanna take a look on some of them. Other then that, even tho I don't know if it's the best way around, I'd say don't worry about 6hit until you have full merits on sTP.

50-70 you'd be better off /WAR for the most part, particularly if you're partying 51->60 w/ polearm. However, if you're mostly soloing SAM/DNC w/ soboro during the 51-60 span then you can get away with not leveling /WAR.

Really though, if you're planning on having 75SAM there are situations where you're going to want /WAR, /DRG, /NIN, /THF, /DNC, and (to a rarer extent) /RNG. You might as well just get them all over with right after another so you can reuse conserved gear.

/WAR is the best sj to exp with until 75/DRG. The DRG build is centered around speed, jumps, & 5% ACC, and strong WS builds. You won't get all of that until 75.

You get everything /WAR has to offer by 50. /WAR is the polearm SAM sub of choice for obvious reasons too, zerk + DA do nice things to penta etc. #I can understand sj's like /DRK/THF/what ever being lvl'd up @ 75, but i'd just get /WAR out of the way, its already on 18? so won't take very long to quickly ding 37 on and its one of the most useful sj's in the game otherwise. I'm pretty sure if you main DRG, /War is still the best exp sj until /SAM takes over.

hehehe I honestly don't recommend anyone to level all SAM subs while they're still on the "I know I will like the job" phase. I say that because before I level RDM I had that same line of thinking, and started leveling all the subs...... you can imagine my frustration when I abandoned it at 65, eh?

/DRK is fun to play. Not useful, but fun. Kinda gives that "über gimped M.Kris DRK feeling"..... I bet healers have a different opinion about that tho.

Edited, Oct 19th 2009 7:37am by sbrubles

Level WAR to 37.

Seriously, just do it.

SAM/DRG is good at low levels but really doesn't start to come back until 70.

this.

Sorry, /RNG gives the early acc trait to physical attack. I Should have checked before hand. Was trying to work from memory...

As a rule of thumb, take everything on the wiki with a grain of salt, particularly if people can't give you good reasons "why" something is true. There are way too many people that just write complete bullsh*t on there because it's what they do/feel w/o having anything to back it up.

I can almost guarantee you he's referring to this LJ post.
um, I don't actually know what he's talking about here, the numbers are C&P'd correctly (87% vs 89%, which is about what we'd expect, /DRG gets +10acc, and /WAR gets bushi for +5 skill (~4.5 acc)). I'm guessing he misread something in his hurry to blow off the information.
This is just bullsh*t, relic has higher base dmg and occasional 2.5x dmg, but this raises everything proportionately (and thus cancels out). The only thing that's not raised proportionally is DA dmg from WS, which is actually a disadvantage to /WAR for Hagun users, meaning the amano SJ WS dmg difference should be an overestimation of the difference a Hagun user feels.
The parsed crit rate is 3.5% different in the two parses, which isn't completely surprising. A lot of the DEX->crit rate studies found large variances in parsed crit rate too. The funny thing is, that this actually favors /WAR for his analysis too, since the higher crit rate was in the /WAR parse.



Overall /DRG is better for meriting because:
1) Between gear, WHM haste and BRDs getting to a decent haste rate is pretty easy, at which point an additional 5% haste adds a lot of damage*.
2) SAM GK WS get atk buffs that makes berserk fairly worthless for what accounts for the majority of our damage.
3) SAM GK WS have high fTP values, which drastically decrease the dmg increase of DA (particularly with Hagun+WS gorget).
3) Jumps increase WS freq as well as adding dmg, which (once again) increases the substantial part of our damage rather than the minor part.*
5) Having less hate (HJ) and more defense (no berserk), lets you lean on hasso more without draining your mages.
6) /DRG has slightly higher acc (not that big of a deal compared to other stuff).
7) The "far too much +str" he claims /WAR adds is 1 STR (69 vs 70 base for a hume, +2-3 STR difference during melee if you include wyvern earring which should be macroed out during WS), it's contribution is soo small it's ridiculous he would even include it.
8)(if you have it) COR+DRK makes hitting pDIF cap pretty easy on squishy things like merit mobs.

*note: at low haste rates the contribution of DA and jumps are about equal 5% haste adds WSfreq advantage to /DRG, at high haste situations DA adds more hits than jums 5% haste adds a ridiculous number of additional hits giving the advantage to /DRG still. see: Interesting /DRG Soboro vs Hagun thread
also: you do have to pay attention more when playing /DRG, but I personally find normal merit parties kind of slow now anyways, so I love the added stuff to do.

Now see, this is exacly why I come here for my SAM questions, thanks a lot Shintasama! ^^

I had a feeling this was the case, which is why I posted here, but always good to get it confirmed by those who know better than I. :)