The Soboro debate thread, formerly @#$% it. I'm leveling SAMFollow

I dunno if you missed it or ignored it, but the whole original was soboro vs a non multi hit GK. Since zanshin cannot proc on a multi hit and 70% of soboro's hits are multi hit, it reduces the effect of zanshin, that's as straight out a gear comparison as I can give.

Bleah, wanted to get off the subject but whatever. You make it sound like I've never been in parties with soboro SAMs or never used it myself. The only thing I lack is any actual parses of it or good reliable side by side comparisons.

Edited, Oct 18th 2009 8:03pm by TarowynXI

The addition of zanshin would probably be more applicable in the 75 merit soboro vs hagun argument since I believe those two come out pretty close to begin with. And yes I know you hate the comparison, but it does come out to a minimum of 1% acc which is the same as.... yeah. It kind of comes back to then, what do we consider to small a difference to compare. I guess it's kind of annoying to fit into the equations and what not but at the same time I swear people who play ffxi love to calculate anything and everything so it just seems odd to not bother including it.

Pizza has probably had a bit to do with making comparisons less interesting. Soboro w/ sushi vs meat w/ regular GK could actually be an interesting comparison, but just using pizza and getting the best of both worlds ends up most likely being best in both cases while not providing much room for zanshin to function.

Maybe it's just my own personal little crusade or something, lol. I dunno, I just think it's too easily written off sometimes but oh well.

Edited, Oct 18th 2009 9:08pm by TarowynXI

Just to annoy a bit:

That particular -/+ comparation you made would be true for Harung also. ;)
I mean, I know what you meant, but just wanted to pick on that xD

yeah, but if you think of zanshin like an ACC bonus, its effect is diminished. not that it matters of course(:.

Also note, that if you WS with Hagun and Zanshin procs, ftp = 1.0, and the martial bonus is irrelevant.

Wiki says it, so its true! Come to think of it however, i've been /DNC for long time now being hooked in past, and I can't remember ever getting a 1tp return (ofc it must of happend because of my 7% DA).

Sekka pretty much killed the whole "300% tp WS GK" "thing"

Just to throw my opinion into here. I hate when people go on about TP this TP that.

The TP feed is most likely going to be irrelevant, this is not a NIN solo tanking charybdis with a BRD and RDM. Any XP pt this will not matter. If you bring along a THF for Nyzul with his triple attack flailing everywhere you should not care about a SAM with a soboro. If you are willing to take a BLU who gives 50% TP a hysteric barrage to something, then why the hell do you care about SAMs TP feed? If your RNG has a k club, on and on and on.
Unless you are with alot of two handers who are subbing nin for subtle blow and some auspice mixed in there, get over it.
I find it hypocritical too that the gaming community at large will sub war and/or use brutal earring which equals more hits over X ammount of time or 'moar tp fehd' as well.

Soboro is a great katana, (lol look at that one right there) but I would not use it with out /drg and haste earring. Just own that and a hagun, and bring them along because you should know when you will need one or the other and what you are going to be subbing. This thread really will never end because this can go back and forth all day long with situation this situation that parse this parse that.

Another thing that annoys me is we can not rate down admins who post things others would rate down.

You could say its killed, but I still get the impression that you still find giving mobs tp in exp pty's from w/e weapon or job there using to be a problem. Also, idt he said anything about using Soboro on bosses. You dish out a ridiculous amount of gekko's on those things with TP, sekka, 2hour, meditate and tp wing. Anyone with half a brain would realize a soboro is a bad choice for them.

Again, TP feed is very important in places. EXP pty's is not one of them.

There should be a big list posted in every forum in a sticky for any job with a multiple hit weapon on what apparently is deemed inappropriate to 'feed' TP and what is fine,,,

Interesting comparison between hagun and soboro. Currently lvl'ing sam, not reached Soboro stage yet, but have both Soboro and Hagun ready. After reading this thread, just wonder, should I just go ahead sell Hagun and pocket the gils instead?

PS: how the two compare when fighting a HNM at endgame?

Edited, Oct 22nd 2009 6:32pm by icebabyisme

shintasama wrote:


Thanks. Don't mean to lvl sam for merit party only, so need to keep Hagun.

Dead horse? Ah well, not much else going on elsewhere so I'll respond. Did a little math, assuming you manage to pull off triple attack on both hands (about a 1% chance of happening fully merited), you give around 40% tp. Soboro 3 hits as non /nin gives around 41% tp. Sounds pretty close, except for the fact that you hit 3 times with a 33 dmg weapon and 3 times with a 26 dmg vs 3 hits with a 40 dmg weapon. Not taking into account differences in atk/fstr but in general, the thf will produce a lot more dmg for the same amount of tp. That's the difference between TP feeding and just giving TP regularly. Even then, there are still cases where a THF is better off not meleeing on nyzul bosses but again, that belongs in a whole different thread. Also, I'm reading that WS's give a set amount of TP irregardless of the number of hits, something which I didn't even know. I should go see if I can confirm that though.

Dunno what this has to do with PLD DD at all, but whatever. Who the heck neds to kraken zergs nyzul bosses? lol. And that still falls under the very good dmg to tp ratio thing. As for blus, actually, a blu who just spams multi hits on bosses is pretty stupid. You can get away with it on some you're better off using stuff the strong single hits like VC. (And a blu should be giving max 45%/27% and down to 40%/24% TP off disserv and rip)

Nyzul in general can be a bad example just because you have the wonderful item known as Fanatic's drink, which means not only do you not need to worry about TP, you don't have to worry about anything at all other than killing the boss for that time span.

Try looking at it this way, using soboro essentially means you just added another member to your party since it adds about 90% to how much tp you're giving. Are you saying having 4 melees vs having 3 won't increase the amount of WS's at all? (Not counting merit parties because mobs will die before you can even blink generally) I dunno, I think you're just fooling yourself then.

Not sure exactly what you mean by the dynamis remark, but stones at least are generally nuked both because they're melee resistant and they have some pretty ugly TP moves. Well and it's faster, lol.

I liked him from the start, and countered some of the sub's & def's as they seemed to be flying his way for no logical reason, other than his opposing opinion on certain things.

That said, I still think the whole tp / exp mobs thing is a little silly, but theres room in future threads i'm sure for more Ikki/zanny, and giving mob TP debates during occasions where this matters.



They actually just use there TP when they reach 100% TP when their HP is 25% and below.

Hey guys,

Just thought I would ask here since this seems to be the Soboro thread atm. My brother just got his SAM to 60 a few days ago. He doesn't have Soboro yet because two days ago we had only just completed the promies. So yesterday we decided to try and get as far as we could in CoP and we are now ready to fight Diabolos which we hopefully will do tomorrow. He will then be using SAM/DRG and will have invested in a wyvern earring( or w/e the 5% haste earring /DRG is called). Now my question is, what are the rules for using Soboro as far as equipment goes?

Right now we have "worked hard" to camp NMs and gotten the rare/ex o-kote and kayahn boots etc and right now the basic idea he has for partying atm is:

TP = stack: haste/acc/atk (Basically using: Chiv chain, potent belt, o-kote, haste boots, woodsman/ecphoria rings, atk earrings, amemet+1(in 1 lvl), walkyrie mask, hauby, royal knights breeches.

WS = stack: strength/acc (Basically using: Chiv chain, potent belt, pallas bracelets(lvl 60 ones anyway), sipaih turban, sun rings, atk earrings(soon the 1str/1dex earring), and mythril grip, hauby, royal knights breeches.

My first question is, with a Soboro, is this still(is it ever?) the right way of thinking and if not how should we think when gearing him?

Secondly, what items would you say are vital and is something you really suggest we get for him, in general at this lvl and maybe especially if a Soboro build requires something special?

Thank you!

If you like to SAM/DRG (and you should because it's a superb combo) then you should get a wyvern earring. End of story. Whether you use hagun or soboro makes NO DIFFERENCE. You should be gearing for haste no matter what.

And no, you don't need accuracy gear for Y/G/K. Full STR.

There's actually a slight difference, due to the haste. Basically, meditate favors Hagun because it's a swing free WS. The more haste you have, the more swings you'll have between each Med, and it'll lessen the boost med itself gives, therefore indirectly helping Soboro's numbers more than Hagun.

It doesn't really help either more by itself, it just lessens the impact of a part where Hagun clearly gets a bigger benefit than Soboro.

Congrats ^_^

Talking about TP feed of Soborro and comparing it to NIN or MNK is fairly misleading, though it's clearly not intentional. NIN or MNK can easily be packing around 40 or more store TP. That's nearly half of the TP given to the monster, not happening. If you want a closer comparison, it should be to THF using low delay daggers (Blau/Sirocco). These guys are TP feeding machines. There are monsters where I can solo/tank them on NIN/dnc with relative ease, and yet you add a single THF or soborro SAM (yes, I said it), and I'm dead in short order.

Basically, the way I see it is: If you would let a THF melee on it, you should let a SAM use Soborro on it. If not, not.

MNK and NIN are in a different situation (properly geared) than other melee regarding TP feed. I'll melee stats in dynamis on MNK if we have too many weak black mages, and it doesn't create problems, for example.

I don't worry about TP feed in meripo unless I'm fighting Skoffins regularly.

This is true of any job though, solo tanking is infinitly easier than having another person there to @#%^ up your rhythm.

Since this is bumped....there was some zanshin testing on BG fairly recently. It's still not great, but it is better than people thought. Probably not enough to skew any of the numbers here, but maybe. iunno. Yall can look it up and recrunch 100 hours of math if you want to.

Alanis Morissette should be shot in the head for convincing 95% of the English speaking population that "Irony" is a synonym for "Coincidence".

Should you still be using Pole Grip/Brutal Earring with a Soboro or will it hurt its damage potential?

Ironically people using sh*tty dictionaries is the number one reason there is soo much confusion over all the definitions of irony

(Situational irony: describes a discrepancy between the expected result and actual results when enlivened by 'perverse appropriateness')
+DA still helps you, just not by very much, definitely swap brutal on for WS