Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

What are your thoughts on SAM/RNG with soboroFollow

#1 Jun 23 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Default
20 posts
If this isnt good. What are some other good subs?
#2 Jun 23 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
/DRG and /WAR. those are my thoughts.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#3 Jun 23 2009 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
211 posts
Not worth it.
#4 Jun 23 2009 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
/DRG with soboro
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#5 Jun 23 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,209 posts
Go level RNG if you want to be ranged attacker so much.
It's a cool job to have.
____________________________
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
int stands for int.

#6 Jun 23 2009 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,887 posts
SAM/RNG is only really viable on piercing weak monsters with low defense / evasion (G.Colibri). But then... it would be so much easier to use a Polearm build.

Is SAM/RNG possible.... yeah
Is it worth your time ... probably not.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#7 Jun 23 2009 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
*
236 posts
SAM/RNG is the love of my life.

Is it expensive, yes.
Is it hard to play, yes.
Does it take some good gear and merits, yes.
Does it devastate birds, yes.
Is it as safe as /drg, no.

Do you get invites, no.
If you switched to /nin would you, yes. =P

i have a 74RNG so it was natural for me to pick it up as they share so much equipment and my Archery has been merited.

i love to play it, i go /rng or /drg to just about anything i can...thats what this game is about, having fun. landing a Sidewinder for 1k, and even as short as 2 attack rounds with a Soboro i fire off another 1k....i dunno, it makes me smile. don't get me wrong, it does have it's place, and it's not an end-all sub, just one of the most fun.

#8 Jun 23 2009 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,245 posts
In before "Polearm...if you have the right gear/merits/secondcomingofjesus"

>_>

<_<

A personal funny...sorry
____________________________
Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#9 Jun 23 2009 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
Polearm if you have the right gear/merits/secondcomingofjesus
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#10 Jun 23 2009 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,245 posts
Quote:
Polearm if you have the right gear/merits/secondcomingofjesus


I think I <3 you...lmao.
____________________________
Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#11 Jun 24 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
***
2,591 posts
SAM/DRG + Hagun @25% Haste with Brd+Dnc support.
____________________________
Taking a break.
#13 Jun 24 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,733 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
I like SAM/RNG alot. It takes a specialized set of gear to be effective. It is fun and when using a Soboro Sidewinder >>> Y/G/K.
 _______  
/       \  
|       |  
| R.I.P |  
|       |  
|SAM/RNG|  
|       |  
|8/27/07|  
|       |  
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Stylish plugin for Firefox | ZAM/Allakhazam Widescreen/ad-free Stylish theme
#15 Jun 24 2009 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,245 posts
I think what he's getting at is, the subjob isn't the best (minmaxing), but it still gets the job done and is fun.

If you aren't worried about optimizing damage, then I guess there's no harm in it if the party is cool with it.
____________________________
Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#16 Jun 24 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
441 posts
Without optimum gear and full archery merits (pre 70+ where a lot of wsacc/racc gear is available), you'll be whiffing a lot more than you realise, even with sushi AND Hunter's Prelude. Further, the more times you back away to get within that ratk "sweet spot", the less hits you'll land and hence less WS you end up firing off.

By all means, get someone to parse you against another sam/war or sam/drg and you will see why nobody is really encouraging you to use SAM/RNG generally.
____________________________
War 75 Nin75 Sam75
#17 Jun 24 2009 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
*
236 posts
the one downside to Sidewinder is that it stacks with just about nothing for SC's.

also, forget sooshi....pot-au-feu is where its at. mmm rabbit stew.
#18 Jun 24 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
*
236 posts
oh. also this is situational...but...

had a party rdm/brd/cor/dnc/sam/sam

was hitting a 1500+ Sidewinderz ever few seconds, it was stupidity. Of course this was on birds. If you're a SAM, get ALL the subs, you'll thank us later, for yourself and your LS or pt. forget the sweetspot, honestly if you're using Sobo + all the rng gear for WS it doesn't matter.


Edited, Jun 25th 2009 2:19am by Aerias
____________________________
FFXI Retired
Fairy/Shiva/Siren/Quetz
#19 Jun 24 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
299 posts
SAM/RNG was some fun back in the day. I remember obliterating my first colibri and loving it lol. Hate control was a major issue tho. 2H update and polearm have kinda killed its usefulness but you could have some fun solo with it.

And while SAM/RNG is actually nice on the ACP final fight and stuff like COP 6-4 and maybe even some of the T10 assaults.... obviously you wouldn' be using Soboro on those situations. You'd be using Vulcan's Staff and be /rng strictly to stay out of AOE range.
#20 Jun 25 2009 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,591 posts
Aerias wrote:
had a party rdm/brd/cor/dnc/sam/sam


You have in many ppl's eye's the ultimate meripo setup, and you go SAM/RNG :/

You could have done amazing things in that pty, with that exact setup.
____________________________
Taking a break.
#22 Jun 25 2009 at 9:15 AM Rating: Default
20 posts
Lets have some fun this beat is sick , i wanna take a ride on yo disco stick ;0
#23 Jun 25 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
You have in many ppl's eye's the ultimate meripo setup, and you go SAM/RNG :/

You could have done amazing things in that pty, with that exact setup.



COR or BRD helps a SAM/RNG alot more than a SAM/WAR or SAM/DRG with GKT. Y/G/K being one hit WS's don't get as much benifit from the buffs as a job unsing multihit WS's or Sidewinder does. About the only think I could see beating a well geared SAM/RNG in that party would be a SAM/WAR with a a polearm. 1500+ sidewinders sound a hell of a lot better than 300-500 Y/G/K with a soboro.


it's called haste. the DNC has haste samba. the RDM has haste. you have hasso and haste gear. you are wrong.

edit: p.s. see that thread with that dumb COR a few weeks ago for "1500 sidewinders > 500 y/g/k with soboro"; the one where i say s/he is a fucking idiot for still having 2004 lolbignumber syndrome 5 years later.

don't post here. no one cares what "you see" outparsing what, because you don't know anything. go shame yourself on the RDM forum or the COR or BRD forum or wherever i last saw you.

(i know this seems like an unprovoked attack to the casual reader, but i'm incorporating knowledge that rdmceypher is a drooling idiot that i got from this thread; he's probably going to reply by making fun of my mother or something)

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 1:47pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#24 Jun 25 2009 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
You have in many ppl's eye's the ultimate meripo setup, and you go SAM/RNG :/

You could have done amazing things in that pty, with that exact setup.



COR or BRD helps a SAM/RNG alot more than a SAM/WAR or SAM/DRG with GKT. Y/G/K being one hit WS's don't get as much benifit from the buffs as a job unsing multihit WS's or Sidewinder does. About the only think I could see beating a well geared SAM/RNG in that party would be a SAM/WAR with a a polearm. 1500+ sidewinders sound a hell of a lot better than 300-500 Y/G/K with a soboro.
Except with the same amount of effort you'd be doing ~3x as many soboro YGK for ~600+ with 95% acc. If you move to shoot you miss multiple swings at that haste level. If you don't move you loose ~30% of your ratk. If you ask for non-haste buffs from BRD you drastically loose WS and DoT (you also better hope that DNC is holding hate or the bird will be all over). /RNG always gets screwed in the end compared to other weapons. Big sidewinder numbers always look pretty, but with that setup you'd be much better putting the effort into a good polearm build.

Really though, my favorite grouping is: RDM/SCH BRD/NIN COR/RNG SAM/DRG DRK/SAM DRG/SAM 2xmarch, Chaos+Samurai roll

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 3:12pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#25 Jun 25 2009 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
*
83 posts
A lot of people may outright dismiss this subjob for samurai, but in certain circumstances it can be incredibly useful. I feel very fortunate for leveling ranger subjob and archery, for it has come out as being really handy in special boss fights in the game (personally I know it really helped rip apart U/O for CoP, and it can be preferred for the final ACP fight as well).

If samurai is your main job and you would like to make it more versatile I'd personally recommend leveling it up. You may not use it for normal endgame events or parties, but it can come in useful for certain things and you may enjoy it as well for playing in campaign or besieged. It's really up to you though.
____________________________
Burmecia and Wuffi - Dragoon duo extraordinaire!
DRG85/COR85/BRD79/SMN85/SAM83/PLD85/RDM84/NIN76
"You are what gives me my wings to fly."
#27 Jun 26 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
it's called haste. the DNC has haste samba. the RDM has haste. you have hasso and haste gear. you are wrong.

edit: p.s. see that thread with that dumb COR a few weeks ago for "1500 sidewinders > 500 y/g/k with soboro"; the one where i say s/he is a @#%^ing idiot for still having 2004 lolbignumber syndrome 5 years later.

don't post here. no one cares what "you see" outparsing what, because you don't know anything. go shame yourself on the RDM forum or the COR or BRD forum or wherever i last saw you.

(i know this seems like an unprovoked attack to the casual reader, but i'm incorporating knowledge that rdmceypher is a drooling idiot that i got from this thread; he's probably going to reply by making fun of my mother or something)


WOW. You really are dumb. Please enlighten me on how haste will allow you to do more Y/G/K's but not more sidewinders. Are you saying that if you /RNG haste does not affect the rate of TP you gain through attacks with Soboro? Obviously if you /RNG you cannot use hasso beacuse Milich is Jesus Christ and he said so. Haste samba does not work when you /RNG either does it? Oh wait, you are just a moron. Did I say anything about parsing in this thread? No. I said SAM/RNG is fun, and its a fun combo to play on peircing weak mobs with the right gear. I am a 75 SAM and I will post here, your borderline retarded and should probably go ahead and shoot yourself in the face beacuse you have no reason to live. If I was going to "shame" anyone it would be you, beacuse you are an obvious moron.

And are you seriously arguing that BRD or COR buffs help ranged WS or multi hit WS's in the same way as single hit WS's such as Y/G/K? You pretty much proved my statement that you are a moron with that tidbit of pure genius.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 5:45pm by rdmceypher


wyvern earring, ACC/pDIF bonus, stupid. go troll people who don't already know you're a child.

edit: for the benefit of the casual reader who doesn't know better, there is no magic situation where SAM/RNG is going to be the best merit sub. 79%-80% haste 5-hit /DRG with polearm and DRK roll is going to sh*t all over y/g/k and bow, 79%-80% haste hagun will sh*t all over soboro (since you couldn't possibly WS fast enough not to waste a lot of TP in that situation), and 79%+ haste is STR gear y/g/ks with soboro is going to beat 74% sidewinders at 150% (or martial bow 100%).

going from 75% to 80% haste is a 25% increase in melee DoT and in WS frequency (meditate mitigates it a bit, but not much). not subbing /DRG when you have haste samba and 2 march in play is a bigger cut in your damage than taking off most of your (non-haste) gear. /WAR's DA and zerk are also a factor in making /RNG a bad idea, but in the present discussion, what the troll i responded to above was saying is blaringly wrong. anyone who knew what haste does should see that immediately, but if you didn't, there it is.

oh, 1 last thought: /RNG is never the best sub in XP, but if you enjoy it it's not like you'll hold your party back or anything. the truth is that colibri are infinite chain as long as your party doesn't have a lot of extremely bad players in it. i mean, in one of the last parties i did at colibri on BRD, i went afk to smoke at chain 100 and came back to find my party had just roamed on to chain 110 or so.

if you're interested in truth, or not saying things that are false, the answer to the question "when is /RNG favored in XP, damagewise?" is "never". you can do it if you think it's fun, but that doesn't mean that 75% haste /RNG will ever get close to 80% haste /DRG.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 6:23pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#29 Jun 26 2009 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
wyvern earring, troll.

edit to your edit:

idiot wrote:
Double march = 20% gear = 25% haste spell = 15% and a DNC with fiully merited haste samba is 10%, that comes out to 70% haste not, 80%. And rarely, if ever will there even be a DNC in the group, let alone a BRD singing double march.


it's called HASSO you fucking moron. get off the SAM forums.


Edited, Jun 26th 2009 7:09pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#31 Jun 26 2009 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
RedTroll wrote:
I feel sorry for you. 10 acc and a jump will NEVER, EVER win over 10% double attack and berserk when using polearm
+wyvern earring = going from 75->80% haste = 25% more dmg
RedTroll wrote:
PS you cannot get 80% haste without a BRD two hour so please try again, again.

Double march = 20% gear = 25% haste spell = 15% and a DNC with fiully merited haste samba is 10%, that comes out to 70% haste not, 80%.

20%march+15%haste+25%gear+10%samba+10%hasso= 80%

way

to

fail

it

RedTroll wrote:
a BRD singing double march.
BRDs that don't double march in merits deserve to be taken out back and shot.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 7:16pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#32 Jun 26 2009 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
Yeah i forgot you cannot use hasso unless your Milich, or you sub DRG, nobody can use it sorry Milich said so he is GOD.


you can't use it with wyvern earring unless you sub /DRG, no.

god or not though, i do have trolls like you all over my dick, so that counts for something (shrug). the hassles of allakhazam fame!
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#34 Jun 26 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
i know you're trolling, but the argument was "those buffs help /RNG more." but what were those buffs? DNC BRD COR RDM. what buffs are those? haste samba, march*2, chaos roll. what wins then? not /RNG. why does hasso matter? b/c haste is stacked so high. why does wyvern earring matter? because haste is stacked so high. see aerias' post if you don't believe me. also, never post again because you're too stupid.

you're not going to get any more attention from me, but thanks for playing. i hope this has made you feel important.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#36 Jun 26 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
out of the kindness of my heart: aerias' post is what brought up DNC, and is what you and have both been responding to. you forgot.

edit: out of curiosity, does anyone remember who first noticed the pDIF bonus on y/g/k that troll is talking about? i know haka is the first person i saw reporting the ACC bonus. was it me, starfox, or haka who talked about the pDIF bonus?

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 7:55pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#37 Jun 26 2009 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
Quote:
And I also never said /RNG wins in anything, if you could read I said it was a fun and decent subjob.

Quote:
About the only think I could see beating a well geared SAM/RNG in that party would be a SAM/WAR with a a polearm.


*cough*

Quote:
I would like to know how much chaos roll and minuet help Y/G/K?
1)BRD shouldn't use min, unless there is another BRD already 2xMarching (which there isn't as written above), haste is -that- good
2)if you're using 2x GK SAM w/o DRK (as was the scenario) COR shouldn't be using Chaos roll, they should be using Samurai roll + Corsair's roll. If the SAMs are using Penta, then the gain from chaos is about equal.

Quote:
I create mathmatical equations for a living
Well, you obviously don't write logical paragraphs for a living, but I don't really consider counting the seconds till fries are up "equations".
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#38 Jun 26 2009 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
incidentally, before i became a shattered bum, i argued logic for a living.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#39 Jun 26 2009 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
milich wrote:
incidentally, before i became a shattered bum, i argued logic for a living.
Shattered bum is more fun I think


I went the Psychologist->Biologist->Biomedical Engineer->Neuroengineer->Shattered Bum->Gene Therapy Research Scientist route
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#40 Jun 26 2009 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
shintasama wrote:
milich wrote:
incidentally, before i became a shattered bum, i argued logic for a living.
Shattered bum is more fun I think


I went the Psychologist->Biologist->Biomedical Engineer->Neuroengineer->Shattered Bum->Gene Therapy Research Scientist route


i'm banking on going logician/linguist -> shattered bum -> ??? -> billionaire myself.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#43 Jun 26 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
1)BRD shouldn't use min, unless there is another BRD already 2xMarching (which there isn't as written above), haste is -that- good
2)if you're using 2x GK SAM w/o DRK (as was the scenario) COR shouldn't be using Chaos roll, they should be using Samurai roll + Corsair's roll. If the SAMs are using Penta, then the gain from chaos is about equal.


Wrong, yet again. In a party with GKT SAM's you do not use Min, in a party of multi hit WS users, you do.
If you have the potential to be at capped haste you'd have to be a complete idiot not to be using 2*march.

71%->80% haste = ~45% dmg increase
420->480atk = ~30% dmg increase
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#46 Jun 26 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
milich wrote:
shintasama wrote:
milich wrote:
incidentally, before i became a shattered bum, i argued logic for a living.
Shattered bum is more fun I think


I went the Psychologist->Biologist->Biomedical Engineer->Neuroengineer->Shattered Bum->Gene Therapy Research Scientist route


i'm banking on going logician/linguist -> shattered bum -> ??? -> billionaire myself.
eh, being a billionare is overrated. Once you're over 50-100m more money just makes life more complex/bothersome and sucks the fun out of the little things.

For ~2m you can buy yourself a decent size island, then just set the rest up in stable investments and relax off the interest.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 9:39pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#47 Jun 26 2009 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
Well, you obviously don't write logical paragraphs for a living, but I don't really consider counting the seconds till fries are up "equations".


Actually the one I worked on all day today was how many ejaculations would it take to fill up Milich's mommy's mouth with my cum. Too bad the bitch kep swallowing it, so unfortunately I was unable to obtain solid results except that you mommy is a cum guzzling whore.
You're helping your case here, really!

rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
If you have the potential to be at capped haste you'd have to be a complete idiot not to be using 2*march.

71%->80% haste = ~45% dmg increase
420->480atk = ~30% dmg increase


And what of Dia and box step? Think about it and you will see. Oh wait I forgot whith whom I was conversing.
Then minIV is a 23-24% increase (i don't know if the -defs are separate or stacking off the top of my head), the better your cratio is the *less* additional attack helps. Once again, you're really helping support that "I do equations for a living" claim.

edit: :O you do know how to use the edit button!
Quote:
Additionaly, what makes you think you have 420 atk using a polearm with 240 skill? Wait let me guess you Tp in 120 str for an extra 90 atk and also have another +90 attack. Or polearm merits and +74 atk. Don't fool yourself, you do not have 420 base attack with a polearm.
lesse, I have 420 base atk on GK, the skill difference is 36 skill = 36 atk difference. I actually have more atk in my polearm build, but lets say you're right. Lets see how much -36 atk changes things:

w/o boxs step/dia:
384->444atk = 37% dmg increase
w/ box stop/dia:
384->444atk = 26-27% dmg increase

You're still not beating haste

Quote:
minuet increases WS damage (moreson on multi hit WS) which is not accounted for. Please enlighten everyone on how you plan to account for that?
sure,
+atk= increases melee dmg, increases WS dmg by the amounts listed above
+haste= increases number of hits -> increased melee dmg, increases tp gain -> increases # of WS -> increases WS dmg by the amounts listed above


Quote:
And once again neiteher oif you account for the additional returns from the use of dia and box stepo and berserk
I already accounted for dia/box and explained how "the better your cratio is, the worse more +atk is", but I'm going to let you walk right into this one anyways:
adding berserk:

384atk*1.15(avg)= 441.6 atk
444atk*1.15(avg)= 510.6 atk

w/o boxs step/dia:
384->444atk = 32% dmg increase (compare to 37% above)
w/ box stop/dia:
384->444atk = 24-25% dmg increase (compare to 26-27% above)

Quote:
and double attack,

Double attack is just more attack rounds, if you have higher haste you get more opportunities to DA, if you have more atk your DAs hurt slightly more (by the amounts listed above). It helps both haste and atk proportionally.

{God I'm bored, can't you at least troll creatively like victrolla? I'm only willing to feed you soo much if you don't have anything entertaining to add)

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 9:33pm by shintasama

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 9:35pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#50 Jun 26 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
RedTroll wrote:
until that is done you both fail.
What is this "both" crap? Milich already got bored of you
RedTroll wrote:
Last I checked /DRG doesnt get double attack.

k, DA+min+berserk+DA vs jumps+haste+acc

/WAR+atk:
8sec(480delay polearm)*.34= 2.72sec/round
150sec/2.72sec/round= 55.15 rounds * 1.17 (DA)= 64.5 rounds
acc dif = 5% (lets say 95% vs 90% to be generous)
64.5*.90 = 58.1
58.1*1.57 (ber+min % inc w/ low atk for kicks)= 91.2

/DRG+jumps:
8sec(480delay polearm)*.20= 1.6sec/round
150sec/1.6sec/round= (93.8 rounds + 2.5 rounds from jump)* 1.07 (DA)= 103 rounds
acc dif = 5% (lets say 95% vs 90% to be generous)
101*.95 = 97.8

/DRG+marches w/ polearm is ~1.073x better than /WAR+min

for /WAR+min to be -equal- min+berserk would have to increase your dmg by nearly 1.7x/hit

Milich wrote:
was it me, starfox, or haka who talked about the pDIF bonus?
Allot of people noticed that YGK were doing more than they should be and there were a bunch of theories why, but I think you were the first person to start quantifying it.

Ninja edit was fall 2007
winter 2008 you/others noticed some pDIF bonus
we were still recommending foragers/ame+1 on WS summer 2008
fall 2008 you found ~bonus
winter 2009 yarko posted on BG


also: when did DaimenKain stop posting?

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 11:06pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (20)