What are your thoughts on SAM/RNG with soboroFollow

If this isnt good. What are some other good subs?

Not worth it.

Go level RNG if you want to be ranged attacker so much.
It's a cool job to have.

SAM/RNG is the love of my life.

Is it expensive, yes.
Is it hard to play, yes.
Does it take some good gear and merits, yes.
Does it devastate birds, yes.
Is it as safe as /drg, no.

Do you get invites, no.
If you switched to /nin would you, yes. =P

i have a 74RNG so it was natural for me to pick it up as they share so much equipment and my Archery has been merited.

i love to play it, i go /rng or /drg to just about anything i can...thats what this game is about, having fun. landing a Sidewinder for 1k, and even as short as 2 attack rounds with a Soboro i fire off another 1k....i dunno, it makes me smile. don't get me wrong, it does have it's place, and it's not an end-all sub, just one of the most fun.

Polearm if you have the right gear/merits/secondcomingofjesus

SAM/DRG + Hagun @25% Haste with Brd+Dnc support.

I think what he's getting at is, the subjob isn't the best (minmaxing), but it still gets the job done and is fun.

If you aren't worried about optimizing damage, then I guess there's no harm in it if the party is cool with it.

the one downside to Sidewinder is that it stacks with just about nothing for SC's.

also, forget sooshi....pot-au-feu is where its at. mmm rabbit stew.

SAM/RNG was some fun back in the day. I remember obliterating my first colibri and loving it lol. Hate control was a major issue tho. 2H update and polearm have kinda killed its usefulness but you could have some fun solo with it.

And while SAM/RNG is actually nice on the ACP final fight and stuff like COP 6-4 and maybe even some of the T10 assaults.... obviously you wouldn' be using Soboro on those situations. You'd be using Vulcan's Staff and be /rng strictly to stay out of AOE range.

Lets have some fun this beat is sick , i wanna take a ride on yo disco stick ;0

Except with the same amount of effort you'd be doing ~3x as many soboro YGK for ~600+ with 95% acc. If you move to shoot you miss multiple swings at that haste level. If you don't move you loose ~30% of your ratk. If you ask for non-haste buffs from BRD you drastically loose WS and DoT (you also better hope that DNC is holding hate or the bird will be all over). /RNG always gets screwed in the end compared to other weapons. Big sidewinder numbers always look pretty, but with that setup you'd be much better putting the effort into a good polearm build.

Really though, my favorite grouping is: RDM/SCH BRD/NIN COR/RNG SAM/DRG DRK/SAM DRG/SAM 2xmarch, Chaos+Samurai roll

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 3:12pm by shintasama

wyvern earring, ACC/pDIF bonus, stupid. go troll people who don't already know you're a child.

edit: for the benefit of the casual reader who doesn't know better, there is no magic situation where SAM/RNG is going to be the best merit sub. 79%-80% haste 5-hit /DRG with polearm and DRK roll is going to sh*t all over y/g/k and bow, 79%-80% haste hagun will sh*t all over soboro (since you couldn't possibly WS fast enough not to waste a lot of TP in that situation), and 79%+ haste is STR gear y/g/ks with soboro is going to beat 74% sidewinders at 150% (or martial bow 100%).

going from 75% to 80% haste is a 25% increase in melee DoT and in WS frequency (meditate mitigates it a bit, but not much). not subbing /DRG when you have haste samba and 2 march in play is a bigger cut in your damage than taking off most of your (non-haste) gear. /WAR's DA and zerk are also a factor in making /RNG a bad idea, but in the present discussion, what the troll i responded to above was saying is blaringly wrong. anyone who knew what haste does should see that immediately, but if you didn't, there it is.

oh, 1 last thought: /RNG is never the best sub in XP, but if you enjoy it it's not like you'll hold your party back or anything. the truth is that colibri are infinite chain as long as your party doesn't have a lot of extremely bad players in it. i mean, in one of the last parties i did at colibri on BRD, i went afk to smoke at chain 100 and came back to find my party had just roamed on to chain 110 or so.

if you're interested in truth, or not saying things that are false, the answer to the question "when is /RNG favored in XP, damagewise?" is "never". you can do it if you think it's fun, but that doesn't mean that 75% haste /RNG will ever get close to 80% haste /DRG.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 6:23pm by milich

+wyvern earring = going from 75->80% haste = 25% more dmg

20%march+15%haste+25%gear+10%samba+10%hasso= 80%

way

to

fail

it

BRDs that don't double march in merits deserve to be taken out back and shot.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 7:16pm by shintasama

i know you're trolling, but the argument was "those buffs help /RNG more." but what were those buffs? DNC BRD COR RDM. what buffs are those? haste samba, march*2, chaos roll. what wins then? not /RNG. why does hasso matter? b/c haste is stacked so high. why does wyvern earring matter? because haste is stacked so high. see aerias' post if you don't believe me. also, never post again because you're too stupid.

you're not going to get any more attention from me, but thanks for playing. i hope this has made you feel important.

*cough*

1)BRD shouldn't use min, unless there is another BRD already 2xMarching (which there isn't as written above), haste is -that- good
2)if you're using 2x GK SAM w/o DRK (as was the scenario) COR shouldn't be using Chaos roll, they should be using Samurai roll + Corsair's roll. If the SAMs are using Penta, then the gain from chaos is about equal.

Well, you obviously don't write logical paragraphs for a living, but I don't really consider counting the seconds till fries are up "equations".

Shattered bum is more fun I think


I went the Psychologist->Biologist->Biomedical Engineer->Neuroengineer->Shattered Bum->Gene Therapy Research Scientist route

If you have the potential to be at capped haste you'd have to be a complete idiot not to be using 2*march.

71%->80% haste = ~45% dmg increase
420->480atk = ~30% dmg increase

You're helping your case here, really!

Then minIV is a 23-24% increase (i don't know if the -defs are separate or stacking off the top of my head), the better your cratio is the *less* additional attack helps. Once again, you're really helping support that "I do equations for a living" claim.

edit: :O you do know how to use the edit button!
lesse, I have 420 base atk on GK, the skill difference is 36 skill = 36 atk difference. I actually have more atk in my polearm build, but lets say you're right. Lets see how much -36 atk changes things:

w/o boxs step/dia:
384->444atk = 37% dmg increase
w/ box stop/dia:
384->444atk = 26-27% dmg increase

You're still not beating haste

sure,
+atk= increases melee dmg, increases WS dmg by the amounts listed above
+haste= increases number of hits -> increased melee dmg, increases tp gain -> increases # of WS -> increases WS dmg by the amounts listed above


I already accounted for dia/box and explained how "the better your cratio is, the worse more +atk is", but I'm going to let you walk right into this one anyways:
adding berserk:

384atk*1.15(avg)= 441.6 atk
444atk*1.15(avg)= 510.6 atk

w/o boxs step/dia:
384->444atk = 32% dmg increase (compare to 37% above)
w/ box stop/dia:
384->444atk = 24-25% dmg increase (compare to 26-27% above)


Double attack is just more attack rounds, if you have higher haste you get more opportunities to DA, if you have more atk your DAs hurt slightly more (by the amounts listed above). It helps both haste and atk proportionally.

{God I'm bored, can't you at least troll creatively like victrolla? I'm only willing to feed you soo much if you don't have anything entertaining to add)

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 9:33pm by shintasama

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 9:35pm by shintasama