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#27 Jun 08 2009 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
i also need to get kparser on this laptop, i hope it works with vista.

I'm using Kparser on a Vista laptop right now and don't have any issues, so it should be fine.
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#28 Jun 08 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
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VZX wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.


Pretty sure I'm going to continue using GKT.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 3:22pm by TrotterOfSylph
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#29 Jun 08 2009 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.


Pretty sure I'm going to continue using GKT.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 3:22pm by TrotterOfSylph

That's your choice, but you're doing it wrong. Enjoy going out of your way to do less damage.
#30Ennoyvl, Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 1:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thanks, now alot of the messages to this post i read helped alot, but His had no info at all on what I needed. I guess the tp part kinda annoyed me, its as if he were assuming I was using a certain gear setup when i wasnt.
#31 Jun 08 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
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Let me get this straight. A SAM, using a Great Katana, is now wrong? Well slap me silly and call me Susan, because this is news to me.
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#32 Jun 08 2009 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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TrotterOfSylph wrote:
Let me get this straight. A SAM, using a Great Katana, is now wrong? Well slap me silly and call me Susan, because this is news to me.

Well I don't know, Susan. Does dealing less damage is wrong to you ?
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#33 Jun 08 2009 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
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Alright, that was a good one.

Seriously though, lets stop for second and pretend we didn't post a couple snarky things. I'll ask a serious -ish question. At what point does doing more damage, force a player out of a desired play style? I'm not talking unique snowflake type of difference here either, but simply a choice of using your signature weapon.

The idea that a SAM can't use GK for birds seems to push min/max a bit to the extreme, no? I don't know, but honestly it appears to me that a sad state has been reached when a SAM can't use his GK.

Is there no room to give on that? Or is it simply, min/max or bust?

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 4:55pm by TrotterOfSylph
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#34 Jun 08 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Veggeto wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.


Pretty sure I'm going to continue using GKT.

That's your choice, but you're doing it wrong. Enjoy going out of your way to do less damage.
In his defense, I've never had a polearm SAM/WAR do more than 2/3 of my soboro SAM/DRG dmg. It's better to stick with GK than to do polearm wrong like every dumbass I find seems to.
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#35 Jun 08 2009 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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TrotterOfSylph wrote:
Is there no room to give on that? Or is it simply, min/max or bust?

Your game, man.

The choice of using polearm in bird camp is more obvious than dozens of gear alternatives in various threads (togi vs hauby, askar vs hauby, osode vs hachiman domaru for GK ws, Dusk+Hachi sune-ate vs Hachi kote+Fuma, etc).

25% damage multiplier under full benefit of attack buff (songs, rolls), berserk, and warcry is a clear advantage vs GK.

EDIT:
OK, let me get this straight what you want:
Right or wrong is definitely not the thing I want to answer. That's your deal with other PT members.

But if we're discussing about the fact, then, again, polearm /WAR has more potential than GK /DRG in bird camp. Even if you don't get attack+ songs/roll, you can easily do on par with GK /DRG (I have parse showing my penta on /DRG have very close number to Kasha's number). Assuming that person has the same quality gear as yours.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 4:31pm by VZX
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#36 Jun 08 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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If you're 8/8 GK and 0/8 polearm, then GK can win. Polearm builds (when geared/merited properly) can do better since you get a 25% piercing bonus and a stronger WS (because 5 hits > 1 hit on weak mobs).

That being said, your GK can have 36-57 more skill than your polearm. If your polearm is merited (skill dif min 20) and you have penta thrust gear (don't ws in pure str like YGK) it can succeed even with the skill difference. Also if you are in a party that has a mix of one and two handers, swapping to polearm will probably do better than a GK with acc overkill.

Most people jumping on the polearm bandwagon do not have merits, do not change their gear swap macros, and are generally clumsy with the combo.
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#37 Jun 08 2009 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Crab sushi,5hit, ect. You'll still outdo Y/G/K on average with a min and march and crab sushi +no merits and have a 5hit as opposed to a 6hit.
#38 Jun 08 2009 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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On the argument of Polearm vs GKT on Birds as SAM.

If both are played to their full potential, and all other things considered the same, Polearm will win.

Now having said that, if I see another noob SAM pull out a Stonesplitter I'm going to punch them in the face. It takes a specific build with appropriate merits / gear / food to outdo a GKT build. A generic level 75 SAM can not just go grab a polearm and suddenly do more damage then a Hagun/Oni.

Also I have yet to have a Tomoe SAM/WAR beat out my Soboro SAM/DRG at birds. But my own Tomoe SAM/WAR build is impressive in its own right. And if your ever in a double BRD pt and get a Madrigal, immediately switch to Polearm.

Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi
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#39 Jun 08 2009 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
On the argument of Polearm vs GKT on Birds as SAM.

If both are played to their full potential, and all other things considered the same, Polearm will win.

Now having said that, if I see another noob SAM pull out a Stonesplitter I'm going to punch them in the face. It takes a specific build with appropriate merits / gear / food to outdo a GKT build. A generic level 75 SAM can not just go grab a polearm and suddenly do more damage then a Hagun/Oni.

Also I have yet to have a Tomoe SAM/WAR beat out my Soboro SAM/DRG at birds. But my own Tomoe SAM/WAR build is impressive in its own right. And if your ever in a double BRD pt and get a Madrigal, immediately switch to Polearm.

Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdnn13r2Nm0
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#40 Jun 09 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
On the argument of Polearm vs GKT on Birds as SAM.

If both are played to their full potential, and all other things considered the same, Polearm will win.

Now having said that, if I see another noob SAM pull out a Stonesplitter I'm going to punch them in the face. It takes a specific build with appropriate merits / gear / food to outdo a GKT build. A generic level 75 SAM can not just go grab a polearm and suddenly do more damage then a Hagun/Oni.

Also I have yet to have a Tomoe SAM/WAR beat out my Soboro SAM/DRG at birds. But my own Tomoe SAM/WAR build is impressive in its own right. And if your ever in a double BRD pt and get a Madrigal, immediately switch to Polearm.

Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdnn13r2Nm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqLz6LqMsU (blame the Faramir)
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#41 Jun 09 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


I'm not sure what that is since my company blocks it, but if it's NSFW please specify, so some of us don't get ourselves embarrassed in our open cubes everyone can see into :P
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#42 Jun 09 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Trotterofsylph wrote:
The idea that a SAM can't use GK for birds seems to push min/max a bit to the extreme, no? I don't know, but honestly it appears to me that a sad state has been reached when a SAM can't use his GK.


The only sad state is limiting your sam, to a weapon you think that a "true" sam can only use. What I mean by this, is that you seem to imply that you dont feel like a SAM b/c you have to use a polearm rather than a GK, something that should be left to drags since they are the polearm job.I know you havent said it but it feels that you are implying it.

Just remember the history of a samurai. Sams are skilled users in katanas, bows and polearms. Funny enough, throughout FF sams have used all of these weapons. Using a polearm in other areas would probably be a bad idea, but vs birds, it isnt provided you do it smart/right.
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#43 Jun 09 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Use whatever weapon you want to when you merit: Hagun, Soboro, Tomoe. 4 hours meriting can get f*cking boring.

That said, if you choose to use a certain weapon, make sure you are doing the correct things to maximize it. Use the correct sub jobs for each weapon. Use the correct food for each, wear TP and WS gear that benefits each. Maintain a 6-hit [5-hit on pole.] Be aggressive on Gear swaps, WS, and use Overwhelm. Ride your abilities [Hasso, Medi, Zerk, warcry, jumps if available.]

These things will make you maximize your Sam more than using one weapon type at all times.

As for the question is Polearm good on SAM? For reference at colibri camp,

2187 Penta on my SAM/WAR, using mithkabob, minx2, no cor, no dia2, no angon
1946 Penta on my DRG/SAM, using mithkabob, min+march, no cor, no dia2, no angon
2534 Drakesbane on my DRG/WHM, no food, no brd, chaos+hunter's, no dia2, no angon
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#44 Jun 09 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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hitoseijuro wrote:

The only sad state is limiting your sam, to a weapon you think that a "true" sam can only use. What I mean by this, is that you seem to imply that you dont feel like a SAM b/c you have to use a polearm rather than a GK, something that should be left to drags since they are the polearm job.I know you havent said it but it feels that you are implying it.


Well, I wasn't trying to imply that, and I apologize if it came across that way. I've been using polearm on my SAM for years now and I do sometimes still use it.

What I was taking exception to was the line in the sand statment, making it mandatory at birds, instead of an option. It seems to push the min/max mentality(in my opinion) too far, when your GK will do fabulously well on birds.

Again, I stress that we aren't talking about arriving to camp and busting out a sword. We're saying "don't use GK at bird camp" (paraphrasing). If I'm in the minority, I'll just shut up about, be dang it seems like a such a hard stance to take on this particular matter.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 10:49am by TrotterOfSylph
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#45 Jun 09 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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no double march is gimp
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#46 Jun 09 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Souji wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


I'm not sure what that is since my company blocks it, but if it's NSFW please specify, so some of us don't get ourselves embarrassed in our open cubes everyone can see into :P


you know better than to click my youtube links at work, right? also, you probably don't want to open "coedmagazine.com" in the situation you described, though my link is not coed.
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#47 Jun 09 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Min/max mentality is about min'ing and max'ing. No **** people are absolutist about it.

No one was making the argument for wanting to play good and have a nice attitude.

Do your best or don't pretend you are. Well geared polearm seems to out do well geared GK. If you are playing by min/max, use polearm.
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#48 Jun 09 2009 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
Souji wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


I'm not sure what that is since my company blocks it, but if it's NSFW please specify, so some of us don't get ourselves embarrassed in our open cubes everyone can see into :P


you know better than to click my youtube links at work, right? also, you probably don't want to open "coedmagazine.com" in the situation you described, though my link is not coed.

Yes, I agree I opened it before really reading the link. However, youtube isn't a big deal, I watch it(and have these game sites open, as well as manga) with my supervisor right behind me. As long as I get my work done, he doesn't mind that stuff. The coed thing would probably have been a red flag though :P
*clicks it*
Yes, that definitely would have gotten me in some trouble :P
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#49 Jun 16 2009 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
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LOL yea im not gonna open this link in fear of getting a tojan or something, maybe to be an a$$ ill open it at a friends house. LOL nah that would just be bad. Im sure hed get me back.
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#50 Jun 19 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't use polearm on SAM until just recently when I got Tomoe. Popping off a 2301 penta ensures I'll never use GK at g.colibri ever again....also makes me want to merit my polearm for drg and sam.
#51 Jun 20 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Question.

The only merits I have at the moment are 5/5 stp, and 2/8 great katana. I TP in Hauby (duh), and have etc gear for every other slot depending on situation; including things like askar legs (no byakko or shura yet), dusk gloves and noritsune kote, Bushi/Brutal/Fowling, etc etc.

Should I still use polearm at bird camp?

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 2:36pm by Salodin
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