Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Osode or AskarFollow

#1 Jun 07 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
*
212 posts
Ok so im just about done with pld as far as tanking gear goes. In other cases, Im preparing my sam for endgame events now. I finally bought a Hagun and now I was looking at Osode.

So many choices for Body gear now. Im unable to get Usukane body atm, due to its expensive nature lol. Hauby+1 is like 3.2-3.6m on my server. So my next option is a free Askar or 2.2-2.5m Osode. I know the stats on both, but im looking more on reasons to use one over the other.

Anyone got any suggestions?
____________________________
Keiyoshi **77PLD>** <80SAM> <51THF> <50RNG> <40WAR> <40BLU> <42RDM> <42WHM> <42NIN> <41BLM> <52MNK> <76PUP>. <43BST> <25COR> <76SMN> <39DNC> <SCH38>
Zilart- completed
CoP- completed
Toau- completed
WoTg- (Sandy nation)- in progress
ACP- completed
MKD- completed
ASA- completed
Kayle is no more....
To quit before you start would make the start of something poor. Your only as good as the effort you put in.
#2 Jun 07 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,890 posts
Option E) None of the above.


Seriously, PLEASE do not TP in Askar. TP in Hauby, and WS in Osode is about the best setup you can get. I know your probably tired of looking at the Hauby model that you and every other SAM has, but it really is that good.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#3 Jun 07 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
 
               Best Option     Poor Man's Option     do not use 
tp:            Haub+1/Usu*     Haub/Nuevo*           Askar 
WS:            Osode           Hachiman Domaru       Askar 
tanking/solo:  Usukane/Osode*  Askar                 ----- 
 
*situational 


You better have a Haub for PLD, use that for melee/tp while you save up for other stuff.

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 1:24pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#4Deboro, Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 9:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Askar is perfectly fine for tp, I keep my 95% Melee Acc on birds, and I keep 20% Haste even breaking into that magical 107 Dex number with gear tweaks.
#5 Jun 07 2009 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
Deboro wrote:
Askar is perfectly fine for tp, I keep my 95% Melee Acc on birds, and I keep 20% Haste even breaking into that magical 107 Dex number with gear tweaks.
Deboro uses 20 something less acc than me and is convinced his parsed acc% is higher, the only way this can occur is by him asking BRDs for acc buffs instead of haste, leaving him with much less total haste than a sensible SAM getting double haste songs and wearing Haub for a grand increase of 1.5% acc. I'm still sitting here patiently and waiting for him and Milich to party together so I can laugh at how bad he gets creamed.

Moooooving on.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#6 Jun 07 2009 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
**
798 posts
I'm not trying to defend askar (I use Nuevo), I am asking an honest question here. Is it not possible to hit accuracy cap with Askar body and using crab sushi on birds?

Say you had the following TP build:

Tiphia Sting
Walahra Turban
Peacock Charm
Fowling Earring
Brutal Earring
Askar Korazin
Dusk gloves
Ulthalaam's Ring
Rajas Ring
Amemit+1
Swift Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Fuma sune-ate

That gives you a total of +20 DEX, +22 Accuracy. Say you have full great katana merits, so 292 skill = 282 Accuracy. Say you are Elvaan SAM/WAR, which is 65 DEX. So you get a total of 85 DEX which is 63 accuracy + 22 accuracy from gear + 282 accuracy from skill = 367 total accuracy. This, by my math which uses the accuracy formula from wiki, gives you a 79.5% Hit rate on LVL 81 G. Colibris, and a 77% hit rate on LVL 82 G. Colibri. If you eat crab sushi, thats 13% more accuracy, which is a total of accuracy of 414. That is enough to push you to 95% hit rate on both LVL 81 and 82 G. Colibris.

Again, I am not defending or recommending Askar. I am simply asking whether it is possible to hit the accuracy cap on G. Colibri's by using crab sushi and Askar and still maintain 20% haste. Just a hypothetical. Did I make an error in my math or is wiki wrong?
____________________________
Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#7 Jun 07 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
but you're using crab sushi instead of miths, so (just like asking the BRD to give you acc songs) you "can" hit the cap, but you're loosing more than you're gaining.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#8 Jun 07 2009 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
**
798 posts
Makes sense. So you can hit cap, but its still gimp cap. Thanks :)
____________________________
Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#9 Jun 07 2009 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
****
9,209 posts
Don't use GKT on birds.
____________________________
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
int stands for int.

#10 Jun 07 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,423 posts
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


This. Polearm always wins. Don't have PA merits? Use crab sushi. You'll still win.

Edit:
Quote:

Askar is perfectly fine for tp, I keep my 95% Melee Acc on birds, and I keep 20% Haste even breaking into that magical 107 Dex number with gear tweaks.


Only way you can make a claim like this for 82 birds is if your gear looks like this.

Hagun/Pole/Empty/Black Tathlum
Ace's/Ancient Torque/Bushi/Brutal
Askar/Dusk(+1)/Rajas/Toreador's
Cuchulain's/Swift/Byakko's/Fuma

This build is 405 acc on lv 82 birds(which require 409 to cap) assuming you're Galka/Hume/Taru, less for elvaan and capped for mithra. Acc will also drop an additional 1.5% when swapping from swift to Vbelt

Assuming you're anything except for mithra, you will not cap acc in askar body on birds.

Swapping Dusk for askar or fuma for enkidu? Then you're no longer +3 haste because swapping for haub and to turban and keeping dusk/fuma over enkidu/askar hands will make askar anywhere from +0-2 haste instead of +3

But all that aside, lolgkt on birds. I was just calling BS on your 95% hitrate claim. If you want STP on your body slot, get usukane or gtfo



Edited, Jun 7th 2009 11:26pm by Veggeto
#11 Jun 07 2009 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,144 posts
I use this:
TP-
input /equip head "Askar Zucchetto";
input /equip l.ring "Rajas Ring";
input /equip l.ear "Fowling Earring";
input /equip neck "Chivalrous Chain";
input /equip body "Haubergeon";
input /equip hands "Dusk Gloves";
input /equip r.ring "Sniper's Ring";
input /equip r.ear "Brutal Earring";
input /equip waist "Swift Belt";
input /equip legs "Byakko's Haidate"
input /equip feet "Usukane Sune-Ate";
input /equip range "Lightning Bow";
input /equip back "Amemet Mantle +1";
input /equip sub "Pole Grip";

WS-
input /equip l.ring "Rajas Ring";
input /equip l.ear "Fowling Earring";
input /equip head "Maat's Cap";
input /equip neck "Snow Gorget";
input /equip body "Kirin's Osode";
input /equip hands "Pallas's Bracelets";
input /equip r.ring "Ruby Ring";
input /equip r.ear "Brutal Earring";
input /equip waist "Warwolf Belt";
input /equip legs "Usukane Hizayoroi";
input /equip feet "Creek M Clomps";
input /equip range "Lightning Bow";
input /equip back "Amemet Mantle +1";

I dont see any askar body there do you?
____________________________
75BLM 75PLD 75RDM 75WAR 75MNK 75NIN 75THF 75SAM 75BRD 75RNG 75DRK 75SMN, 75DRG 75DNC 75WHM 75COR 75BST 75BLU 75PUP 75SCH - # of summoner burns = 0

http://sizedd.freeforums.org/

Quote a few months before the mass salvage banning:
couerlmaster wrote:
And stfu with the banstick, this is hardly traceable and so widespread throughout the EG community there's nothing SE can do w/o banning half the EG community on every server


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0O8qb58bHY
#12 Jun 07 2009 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,423 posts
I'm pretty sure turban beats out askar for TP and that smild+1 beats out am+1 for ws

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 2:28am by Veggeto
#13 Jun 07 2009 at 11:45 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
284 posts
Askar > All for best looking thing you can put on your head. The fact that it has pretty good stats is just a side benefit.
____________________________
Ruuz - Elvaan of Hades
MNK75
#14 Jun 08 2009 at 12:35 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,209 posts
Veggeto wrote:
I'm pretty sure turban beats out askar for TP and that smild+1 beats out am+1 for ws

The difference is too little to fuss about which one is the winner.

2008 - the year we talk about how a certain equip win due to something that you can't replicate with the smallest unit in game.
____________________________
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
int stands for int.

#15Deboro, Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 12:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow once again Rated down for having an opinion! Awesome, I cant cap Acc with Askar? do you not know of the mithical Pizza? Also I like how your "Perfect Gear" Setup had wasted spots of Expensive over-used gear, Who would use Ancinet torque over Justice? or Why do Dusk +1 Even matter? ANYWAYS, Haub is not the end all be all of bodies, get over it. And I too am still waiting on mr. Pahn to get a better console / pc to use so we can enjoy some parses, But as you would know if you were reading the thread it has nothing to do with Askar / Hauby. It is a question of /drg vs /war
#16 Jun 08 2009 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
Deboro wrote:
Wow once again Rated down for having an opinion! Awesome, I cant cap Acc with Askar? do you not know of the mithical Pizza? Also I like how your "Perfect Gear" Setup had wasted spots of Expensive over-used gear, Who would use Ancinet torque over Justice? or Why do Dusk +1 Even matter? ANYWAYS, Haub is not the end all be all of bodies, get over it. And I too am still waiting on mr. Pahn to get a better console / pc to use so we can enjoy some parses, But as you would know if you were reading the thread it has nothing to do with Askar / Hauby. It is a question of /drg vs /war


better PC, just haven't been playing much. and yeah, /DRG vs /WAR is the point, though at the moment i don't remember who was going to sub which to be honest. i also need to get kparser on this laptop, i hope it works with vista.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#17 Jun 08 2009 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,107 posts
If you're debating between getting Osode vs other gear, it can be more up in the air, but Osode is the best GK WS piece you can get. If you are a pld first, neuvo isn't really an option.

The difference will end up being 5 str and you prolly won't need the stp from the body with merits or some hachi. Depending on your current gear I might put off the osode for things like brutal, dusk/fuma, pcc, or whatever else you might be lacking. I'm a huge fan of my pcc since I can use it on all my jobs, and looking at your jobs listed you could gain from it to.

There's a lot of other gear that can easily negate the 5 str difference, so get that first. Better to have a pretty solid 6 hit setup with hagun then some mediocre 7 hit with an osode.

tl:dr 10 str > 5 str, but other gear > osode for immediate improvements
____________________________
80 Pup Brd, 75 War Rdm Drg Sam Mnk Pld Bst Thf Whm Nin Smn Blm Rng, 72 Drk, 63 Cor, 50 Blu, 40 Dnc Sch
#18 Jun 08 2009 at 4:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,423 posts
Deboro wrote:
Wow once again Rated down for having an opinion! Awesome, I cant cap Acc with Askar? do you not know of the mithical Pizza? Also I like how your "Perfect Gear" Setup had wasted spots of Expensive over-used gear, Who would use Ancinet torque over Justice? or Why do Dusk +1 Even matter? ANYWAYS, Haub is not the end all be all of bodies, get over it. And I too am still waiting on mr. Pahn to get a better console / pc to use so we can enjoy some parses, But as you would know if you were reading the thread it has nothing to do with Askar / Hauby. It is a question of /drg vs /war


Yes, because we all eat pizza on birds, brilliant!

Who would use Ancient Torque over justice? I would. Ancient torque is 12 acc on a hander. Justice torque is 6 acc 5 str 7 attack provided you have a bushi and capped gkt merits. Sam gets about 70% of total dmg from WS. 6 acc is going to increase ws frequency, which is going to be a better boost in damage than adding to hagun's very crappy DoT.
Think about it, really. 6 acc vs 5 str 7 attack on a job that gets the majority of it's dmg from WS. 5 str 7 attack will increase TP dmg. 6 acc will increase TP dmg AND WS dmg.

Dusk+1 don't matter I used the() to show that it could be either one. Dusk(+1) is dusk or dusk+1 If i meant dusk+1 only, i would have said dusk+1. The point being, using askar body so you could use haste gloves and shoes instead of a piece of hachiman

I never said it was, but it is still better than askar in a lot more situations than askar would be beter than it. If you want stp on the body, get ACP body 10 acc 4 stp or Usu body, and you're going to be better off than askar body.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 8:05am by Veggeto
#19 Jun 08 2009 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
milich wrote:
Deboro wrote:
Wow once again Rated down for having an opinion! Awesome, I cant cap Acc with Askar? do you not know of the mithical Pizza? Also I like how your "Perfect Gear" Setup had wasted spots of Expensive over-used gear, Who would use Ancinet torque over Justice? or Why do Dusk +1 Even matter? ANYWAYS, Haub is not the end all be all of bodies, get over it. And I too am still waiting on mr. Pahn to get a better console / pc to use so we can enjoy some parses, But as you would know if you were reading the thread it has nothing to do with Askar / Hauby. It is a question of /drg vs /war


better PC, just haven't been playing much. and yeah, /DRG vs /WAR is the point, though at the moment i don't remember who was going to sub which to be honest. i also need to get kparser on this laptop, i hope it works with vista.


Milich wrote:
let's have a nyzul mamool party and compare my SAM/DRG to your elite SAM/WAR with askar.
I assumed from the context that your SAM/DRG would be using Haub+1, it's "fairer" if you use the same gear, but I have faith that you're going to cream him so I don't care either way.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#20 Jun 08 2009 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Deboro wrote:
Wow once again Rated down for having an opinion! Awesome, I cant cap Acc with Askar? do you not know of the mithical Pizza? Also I like how your "Perfect Gear" Setup had wasted spots of Expensive over-used gear, Who would use Ancinet torque over Justice? or Why do Dusk +1 Even matter? ANYWAYS, Haub is not the end all be all of bodies, get over it. And I too am still waiting on mr. Pahn to get a better console / pc to use so we can enjoy some parses, But as you would know if you were reading the thread it has nothing to do with Askar / Hauby. It is a question of /drg vs /war
You use pizza on birds? lol
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#21 Jun 08 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
****
7,106 posts
ITT: how to have capped ACC without gimping your damage output to do it.

On a related note, I bet even the backline jobs could reach capped ACC on birds if they used ACC food.
#22 Jun 08 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
**
502 posts
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.
____________________________
Trotter / Sylph / Galka / Bastok
all my gear is crap now ... oh well
#23 Jun 08 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,209 posts
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.
____________________________
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
int stands for int.

#24Ennoyvl, Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 11:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) saevellakshmi
#25 Jun 08 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
Silent But Deadly
*****
19,999 posts
Caesura wrote:
ITT: how to have capped ACC without gimping your damage output to do it.

On a related note, I bet even the backline jobs could reach capped ACC on birds if they used ACC food.
We might be able to, but we'd have to gimp our damage output to do it.
____________________________
SUPER BANNED FOR FAILING TO POST 20K IN A TIMELY MANNER
#26 Jun 08 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
393 posts
Ennoyvl wrote:
None of the above?! WTF are you referring to?! Im asking a question about the 3 main gears in the game, and you say none of the above?!

My god!!.. did you even read what I wrote?!! I said nothing about tp gain or specs on gear and how to friggin use it! I was clearly asking which one should I use. I know that I should use Hauby to tp in, its what im using now. I also use my friends Osode in salvage, so i know to macro swap it out when ws'ing. But now that im working on my sam, im putting time into it to want to get an osode, or something good as far as the body piece goes. I am unable to get Usukane atm, so ill settle for the next best thing. What you wrote clearly shows that you didn't even comprehend what I was asking.

I dont mean to be so upset, but **** man, it sucks when asking for help on something opens a f'kn gateway to criticism. Please read correctly before you respond to a post!


After reading your reply, even I have no idea what exactly you are asking. The topic is called "Osode or Askar", it sure sounds like you are picking one over the other. And then you go on about Usukane Body and Haub+1 and so on, as though if all 4 of them are interchangable. I'll just give you an answer to what I think your question is/was. As a sam you have usage for 4 bodies, Osode/Askar/Haub+1/Usukane, where Usukane is an upgrade of both Askar and Haub. If you do not have Usukane Body, you should have Osode/Askar/Haub as each have their uses. Haub+1 for regular monsters and Askar for when you're farming and whatnot since the evasion+ helps and you don't really need the extra acc on lower level monsters. Osode should always be used for WS(unless you're using multi-hit ws) as it gives the most str out of any body that's currently available. The total amount of store tp you have also determines what you should be using. If you have Usu Feet, you should be using haub+1 and haste gloves(if you don't have usu body), if you don't have Usu Feet, then Askar+haste gloves is a viable option. I know people argue about whether askar+haste is better than haub+hachiman kote for those that don't have usu feet, but in my opinion it depends on what you fight and the food that you use. Either way the difference shouldn't be that much for most cases.

Hope this helps, and don't get too upset if it doesn't.
____________________________
Makochin, Bahamut Server
http://undefeatable-ls.com
http://makochin.livejournal.com
#27 Jun 08 2009 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,567 posts
milich wrote:
i also need to get kparser on this laptop, i hope it works with vista.

I'm using Kparser on a Vista laptop right now and don't have any issues, so it should be fine.
____________________________
Chatokun 90DRG | 75RDM | 82BRD | 90THF | 90NIN | 75SAM | 90BLU
Valefor Server
Linkshell: Heresy
#28 Jun 08 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
**
502 posts
VZX wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.


Pretty sure I'm going to continue using GKT.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 3:22pm by TrotterOfSylph
____________________________
Trotter / Sylph / Galka / Bastok
all my gear is crap now ... oh well
#29 Jun 08 2009 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,423 posts
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.


Pretty sure I'm going to continue using GKT.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 3:22pm by TrotterOfSylph

That's your choice, but you're doing it wrong. Enjoy going out of your way to do less damage.
#30Ennoyvl, Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 1:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thanks, now alot of the messages to this post i read helped alot, but His had no info at all on what I needed. I guess the tp part kinda annoyed me, its as if he were assuming I was using a certain gear setup when i wasnt.
#31 Jun 08 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
**
502 posts
Let me get this straight. A SAM, using a Great Katana, is now wrong? Well slap me silly and call me Susan, because this is news to me.
____________________________
Trotter / Sylph / Galka / Bastok
all my gear is crap now ... oh well
#32 Jun 08 2009 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
****
9,209 posts
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
Let me get this straight. A SAM, using a Great Katana, is now wrong? Well slap me silly and call me Susan, because this is news to me.

Well I don't know, Susan. Does dealing less damage is wrong to you ?
____________________________
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
int stands for int.

#33 Jun 08 2009 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
**
502 posts
Alright, that was a good one.

Seriously though, lets stop for second and pretend we didn't post a couple snarky things. I'll ask a serious -ish question. At what point does doing more damage, force a player out of a desired play style? I'm not talking unique snowflake type of difference here either, but simply a choice of using your signature weapon.

The idea that a SAM can't use GK for birds seems to push min/max a bit to the extreme, no? I don't know, but honestly it appears to me that a sad state has been reached when a SAM can't use his GK.

Is there no room to give on that? Or is it simply, min/max or bust?

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 4:55pm by TrotterOfSylph
____________________________
Trotter / Sylph / Galka / Bastok
all my gear is crap now ... oh well
#34 Jun 08 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
Veggeto wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
VZX wrote:
Don't use GKT on birds.


I'm using my GKT on birds.

Don't.


Pretty sure I'm going to continue using GKT.

That's your choice, but you're doing it wrong. Enjoy going out of your way to do less damage.
In his defense, I've never had a polearm SAM/WAR do more than 2/3 of my soboro SAM/DRG dmg. It's better to stick with GK than to do polearm wrong like every dumbass I find seems to.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#35 Jun 08 2009 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,209 posts
TrotterOfSylph wrote:
Is there no room to give on that? Or is it simply, min/max or bust?

Your game, man.

The choice of using polearm in bird camp is more obvious than dozens of gear alternatives in various threads (togi vs hauby, askar vs hauby, osode vs hachiman domaru for GK ws, Dusk+Hachi sune-ate vs Hachi kote+Fuma, etc).

25% damage multiplier under full benefit of attack buff (songs, rolls), berserk, and warcry is a clear advantage vs GK.

EDIT:
OK, let me get this straight what you want:
Right or wrong is definitely not the thing I want to answer. That's your deal with other PT members.

But if we're discussing about the fact, then, again, polearm /WAR has more potential than GK /DRG in bird camp. Even if you don't get attack+ songs/roll, you can easily do on par with GK /DRG (I have parse showing my penta on /DRG have very close number to Kasha's number). Assuming that person has the same quality gear as yours.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 4:31pm by VZX
____________________________
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
int stands for int.

#36 Jun 08 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,107 posts
If you're 8/8 GK and 0/8 polearm, then GK can win. Polearm builds (when geared/merited properly) can do better since you get a 25% piercing bonus and a stronger WS (because 5 hits > 1 hit on weak mobs).

That being said, your GK can have 36-57 more skill than your polearm. If your polearm is merited (skill dif min 20) and you have penta thrust gear (don't ws in pure str like YGK) it can succeed even with the skill difference. Also if you are in a party that has a mix of one and two handers, swapping to polearm will probably do better than a GK with acc overkill.

Most people jumping on the polearm bandwagon do not have merits, do not change their gear swap macros, and are generally clumsy with the combo.
____________________________
80 Pup Brd, 75 War Rdm Drg Sam Mnk Pld Bst Thf Whm Nin Smn Blm Rng, 72 Drk, 63 Cor, 50 Blu, 40 Dnc Sch
#37 Jun 08 2009 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,423 posts
Crab sushi,5hit, ect. You'll still outdo Y/G/K on average with a min and march and crab sushi +no merits and have a 5hit as opposed to a 6hit.
#38 Jun 08 2009 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,890 posts
On the argument of Polearm vs GKT on Birds as SAM.

If both are played to their full potential, and all other things considered the same, Polearm will win.

Now having said that, if I see another noob SAM pull out a Stonesplitter I'm going to punch them in the face. It takes a specific build with appropriate merits / gear / food to outdo a GKT build. A generic level 75 SAM can not just go grab a polearm and suddenly do more damage then a Hagun/Oni.

Also I have yet to have a Tomoe SAM/WAR beat out my Soboro SAM/DRG at birds. But my own Tomoe SAM/WAR build is impressive in its own right. And if your ever in a double BRD pt and get a Madrigal, immediately switch to Polearm.

Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#39 Jun 08 2009 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
saevellakshmi wrote:
On the argument of Polearm vs GKT on Birds as SAM.

If both are played to their full potential, and all other things considered the same, Polearm will win.

Now having said that, if I see another noob SAM pull out a Stonesplitter I'm going to punch them in the face. It takes a specific build with appropriate merits / gear / food to outdo a GKT build. A generic level 75 SAM can not just go grab a polearm and suddenly do more damage then a Hagun/Oni.

Also I have yet to have a Tomoe SAM/WAR beat out my Soboro SAM/DRG at birds. But my own Tomoe SAM/WAR build is impressive in its own right. And if your ever in a double BRD pt and get a Madrigal, immediately switch to Polearm.

Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdnn13r2Nm0
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#40 Jun 09 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
milich wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
On the argument of Polearm vs GKT on Birds as SAM.

If both are played to their full potential, and all other things considered the same, Polearm will win.

Now having said that, if I see another noob SAM pull out a Stonesplitter I'm going to punch them in the face. It takes a specific build with appropriate merits / gear / food to outdo a GKT build. A generic level 75 SAM can not just go grab a polearm and suddenly do more damage then a Hagun/Oni.

Also I have yet to have a Tomoe SAM/WAR beat out my Soboro SAM/DRG at birds. But my own Tomoe SAM/WAR build is impressive in its own right. And if your ever in a double BRD pt and get a Madrigal, immediately switch to Polearm.

Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdnn13r2Nm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqLz6LqMsU (blame the Faramir)
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#41 Jun 09 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,567 posts
saevellakshmi wrote:
Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


I'm not sure what that is since my company blocks it, but if it's NSFW please specify, so some of us don't get ourselves embarrassed in our open cubes everyone can see into :P
____________________________
Chatokun 90DRG | 75RDM | 82BRD | 90THF | 90NIN | 75SAM | 90BLU
Valefor Server
Linkshell: Heresy
#42 Jun 09 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
**
712 posts
Trotterofsylph wrote:
The idea that a SAM can't use GK for birds seems to push min/max a bit to the extreme, no? I don't know, but honestly it appears to me that a sad state has been reached when a SAM can't use his GK.


The only sad state is limiting your sam, to a weapon you think that a "true" sam can only use. What I mean by this, is that you seem to imply that you dont feel like a SAM b/c you have to use a polearm rather than a GK, something that should be left to drags since they are the polearm job.I know you havent said it but it feels that you are implying it.

Just remember the history of a samurai. Sams are skilled users in katanas, bows and polearms. Funny enough, throughout FF sams have used all of these weapons. Using a polearm in other areas would probably be a bad idea, but vs birds, it isnt provided you do it smart/right.
____________________________
SERVER: IFRIT
WHM/BRD: Triangulum
PLD
MNK
SAM
BLM
DRK

#43 Jun 09 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
**
619 posts
Use whatever weapon you want to when you merit: Hagun, Soboro, Tomoe. 4 hours meriting can get f*cking boring.

That said, if you choose to use a certain weapon, make sure you are doing the correct things to maximize it. Use the correct sub jobs for each weapon. Use the correct food for each, wear TP and WS gear that benefits each. Maintain a 6-hit [5-hit on pole.] Be aggressive on Gear swaps, WS, and use Overwhelm. Ride your abilities [Hasso, Medi, Zerk, warcry, jumps if available.]

These things will make you maximize your Sam more than using one weapon type at all times.

As for the question is Polearm good on SAM? For reference at colibri camp,

2187 Penta on my SAM/WAR, using mithkabob, minx2, no cor, no dia2, no angon
1946 Penta on my DRG/SAM, using mithkabob, min+march, no cor, no dia2, no angon
2534 Drakesbane on my DRG/WHM, no food, no brd, chaos+hunter's, no dia2, no angon
____________________________
BANNED
#44 Jun 09 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
**
502 posts
hitoseijuro wrote:

The only sad state is limiting your sam, to a weapon you think that a "true" sam can only use. What I mean by this, is that you seem to imply that you dont feel like a SAM b/c you have to use a polearm rather than a GK, something that should be left to drags since they are the polearm job.I know you havent said it but it feels that you are implying it.


Well, I wasn't trying to imply that, and I apologize if it came across that way. I've been using polearm on my SAM for years now and I do sometimes still use it.

What I was taking exception to was the line in the sand statment, making it mandatory at birds, instead of an option. It seems to push the min/max mentality(in my opinion) too far, when your GK will do fabulously well on birds.

Again, I stress that we aren't talking about arriving to camp and busting out a sword. We're saying "don't use GK at bird camp" (paraphrasing). If I'm in the minority, I'll just shut up about, be dang it seems like a such a hard stance to take on this particular matter.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 10:49am by TrotterOfSylph
____________________________
Trotter / Sylph / Galka / Bastok
all my gear is crap now ... oh well
#45 Jun 09 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
no double march is gimp
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#46 Jun 09 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
Souji wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


I'm not sure what that is since my company blocks it, but if it's NSFW please specify, so some of us don't get ourselves embarrassed in our open cubes everyone can see into :P


you know better than to click my youtube links at work, right? also, you probably don't want to open "coedmagazine.com" in the situation you described, though my link is not coed.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#47 Jun 09 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,107 posts
Min/max mentality is about min'ing and max'ing. No **** people are absolutist about it.

No one was making the argument for wanting to play good and have a nice attitude.

Do your best or don't pretend you are. Well geared polearm seems to out do well geared GK. If you are playing by min/max, use polearm.
____________________________
80 Pup Brd, 75 War Rdm Drg Sam Mnk Pld Bst Thf Whm Nin Smn Blm Rng, 72 Drk, 63 Cor, 50 Blu, 40 Dnc Sch
#48 Jun 09 2009 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,567 posts
milich wrote:
Souji wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
Ohh yeah, in an attempt to appease both sides of this argument. I offer the following.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/20/miss-coed-alicia-whitten/462d7c8384ff6/

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 5:26am by saevellakshmi


I'm not sure what that is since my company blocks it, but if it's NSFW please specify, so some of us don't get ourselves embarrassed in our open cubes everyone can see into :P


you know better than to click my youtube links at work, right? also, you probably don't want to open "coedmagazine.com" in the situation you described, though my link is not coed.

Yes, I agree I opened it before really reading the link. However, youtube isn't a big deal, I watch it(and have these game sites open, as well as manga) with my supervisor right behind me. As long as I get my work done, he doesn't mind that stuff. The coed thing would probably have been a red flag though :P
*clicks it*
Yes, that definitely would have gotten me in some trouble :P
____________________________
Chatokun 90DRG | 75RDM | 82BRD | 90THF | 90NIN | 75SAM | 90BLU
Valefor Server
Linkshell: Heresy
#49 Jun 16 2009 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
*
212 posts
LOL yea im not gonna open this link in fear of getting a tojan or something, maybe to be an a$$ ill open it at a friends house. LOL nah that would just be bad. Im sure hed get me back.
____________________________
Keiyoshi **77PLD>** <80SAM> <51THF> <50RNG> <40WAR> <40BLU> <42RDM> <42WHM> <42NIN> <41BLM> <52MNK> <76PUP>. <43BST> <25COR> <76SMN> <39DNC> <SCH38>
Zilart- completed
CoP- completed
Toau- completed
WoTg- (Sandy nation)- in progress
ACP- completed
MKD- completed
ASA- completed
Kayle is no more....
To quit before you start would make the start of something poor. Your only as good as the effort you put in.
#50 Jun 19 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
****
6,964 posts
I didn't use polearm on SAM until just recently when I got Tomoe. Popping off a 2301 penta ensures I'll never use GK at g.colibri ever again....also makes me want to merit my polearm for drg and sam.
#51 Jun 20 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,245 posts
Question.

The only merits I have at the moment are 5/5 stp, and 2/8 great katana. I TP in Hauby (duh), and have etc gear for every other slot depending on situation; including things like askar legs (no byakko or shura yet), dusk gloves and noritsune kote, Bushi/Brutal/Fowling, etc etc.

Should I still use polearm at bird camp?

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 2:36pm by Salodin
____________________________
Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 14 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (14)