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When to use PolearmFollow

#1 Jun 04 2009 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey guys, sorry if this has come up before but I checked stickies and recent posts and couldn't find the answer.

Just started levelling my SAM and was wondering in what situations does using a Polearm beat out GK? As my main is DRG I have 8/8 Polearm merits which will certainly help a lot, but in general which weapon is better for which situations, on the way and at 75?

Obviously Polearm has an advantage on Piercing weak mobs, but at 75 for Colibri would a Polearm SAM beat out a GK SAM? I was doing a ODS run a few days ago on my DRG/WHM with a friend on his SAM and I noticed that while my WS were doing well over 1k on average without Angon, his WS were tending to do a lot less; is Polearm likely to be better on weaker/lower level mobs like this?

Just looking for a general idea on when to use Polearms, any input is much appreciated.
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#3 Jun 04 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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weak eva/def mobs + piercing weak mobs = win for polearm

exp wise:
never 1->54
definitely 55->60
optionally 60->w/e you stop fighting colibri
optionally @75 when at colibri camp and you have the acc to pull it off, if you don't have the build for it polearm's performance drops off quickly
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#4 Jun 04 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Correction
1-32 weapon type doesn't really matter, but skill level does, with merits it does not really make a difference
33-36 bats are weak to piercing, though without merits accuracy from skill diff could still win out
37-42 on past birds polearm wins. polearm wins with E skill on paladin, polearm will win with sam and war.
43-53 GK prolly better, though same as 1-32
53-66 on lesser and normal colibri, polearm wins, before yukki 100% win every time, all the time, GK should only be used to skill up on lessers IMO
66-75 on bugs or non-piercing weak mobs GK
75 greater colibri camp or fighting anything weak

Also, when fighting weak mobs, polearm will win from the fact that penta thrust easily owns any single hit. In nyzul I generally out do hagun on ramparts.

If it is flying, stab it.
If it is very weak, stab it.

I tried soboro/sidewinder, which was fun, but polearm will out damage it with less effort. I didn't have archery merits, so it might have skewed my results. If you want to use it, you really ought to have a corsair in the party for hunter's, because with a bard you don't want to sacrifice a melee song for a WS song.
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#5 Jun 04 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
exp wise:
never 1->54


Disagree. East Ronfaure S bird camp with polearm merits easily makes Polearm and Double Thrust better. Same skill(with merits), same fTP as Enpi, same secondary mods.

Personally, I think it can work at other camps too (i.e. anywhere exping you'd be encountering fliers). Garliage maybe?

Honestly, you can't really go too far wrong with either weapon and carrying one of each is a great bet.
#6 Jun 04 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Honestly, you can't really go too far wrong with either weapon and carrying one of each is a great bet.
GK at that level have better DPS and lower hit builds than polearms(that SAM can use), so it's really a wash yeah.

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 6:47pm by shintasama
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#7 Jun 05 2009 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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You got the idea

Polearm when either

A: You are fighting piercing weak mobs ( anything that is a bird of flies really )

B: When you have Penta Thrust but not Yuki. That should be ~51 to 60, depending on merits


Yes, even on crabs at 51 polearm will do better. Penta is just *that* much better than Jinpu.
#8 Jun 07 2009 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Greater colibri def. w/o PA merits, use crab sushi (don't make your pt eat madrigal). W/ capped PA merits and good gear, you can easily support a meat build. I used usu mask (ace's for those of u who have), haub+1, usu gloves, kitty pants, usu shoes before getting full usu (which actually lowered my acc from current build). Cuch mantle also helps. With meat you want to bypass most str/attack and go straight for the acc, but the numbers will prove higher. Btw, to the guy who commented on Jinpu, while it may not be the best for exp mobs, it really excels on weak mobs or if you're super buffed. Go ahead and try using Jinpu on the early floors of any salvage zone and it beats out polearm easily.
#9 Jun 08 2009 at 5:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Regarding a Polearm setup at Colibri, taking into account my 8/8 Polearm merits what kind of build do I want to aim for assuming that I don't have Madrigal coming in?

Presumably it would be worth going for a 5 hit build, but this only seems viable if you use Sushi as you'd need to drop a few ACC pieces for +Store TP pieces. If not would it be better to eat meat and go for a full ACC setup, although doing so would lose you some Haste which might make it less effective.

Is there a consensus on the best build to aim for with Polearm on Colibri or is it somewhat down to preference?
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#10 Jun 08 2009 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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I don't want to make a new thread for what would be a 1 answer /thread, so I'll ask here. Does Overwhelm work on Polearm WS too, or just GKT? Wiki says nothing about it besides a mention of Archery in the discussion tab.
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#11 Jun 08 2009 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dudester wrote:
I don't want to make a new thread for what would be a 1 answer /thread, so I'll ask here. Does Overwhelm work on Polearm WS too, or just GKT? Wiki says nothing about it besides a mention of Archery in the discussion tab.
It works on all melee WS.
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#12 Jun 08 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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It works on all melee WS.


Awesome, thanks. The archery discussion made me believe it was GKT only. Kind of explains why the SAM with 5/5 Overwhelm was doing ridiculous Penta Thrusts over me today ; ;
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Same sorta thing with Watusa. I saw him fishing on the ferry one time. It felt like a hollywood celebrity sighting.
#13 Jun 09 2009 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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KalessinMC Sage wrote:
Regarding a Polearm setup at Colibri, taking into account my 8/8 Polearm merits what kind of build do I want to aim for assuming that I don't have Madrigal coming in?

Presumably it would be worth going for a 5 hit build, but this only seems viable if you use Sushi as you'd need to drop a few ACC pieces for +Store TP pieces. If not would it be better to eat meat and go for a full ACC setup, although doing so would lose you some Haste which might make it less effective.

Is there a consensus on the best build to aim for with Polearm on Colibri or is it somewhat down to preference?


I have a similar dilemma except I don't have any merits in Pole Arms.

This is 5 hit, 22% haste build.
WS ~ 402 Accuracy.

I have 385 Accuracy T_T ~ 79% accuracy on lvl 82 birds. If I had max Pole Arms merited I would have 86%.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 2:37am by Marou

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 2:39am by Marou
#14 Jun 09 2009 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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You don't really need polearm merit, really. In fact, I advise everyone to eat crab sushi so that:
- You can control your own accuracy instead of relying to BRD's madrigal which might be off at the time you want to penta.
- You don't need the BRD to sing the extra madrigal for you or forcing other competent DD in party eat madrigal.
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