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Returning SAM with a build question...Follow

#1 May 10 2009 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
Hi all. I am coming back to the sam job and would like some help on a equipment build im working on for gaining tp. I did lurk several pages back on this forum and even the stickies to try to find some answers but simply cant. The gears listed below i have except for the ring and chivy so far so i havent been able to test it. B4 i attempted this build i thought i would ask here to see if it was viable anyway.

Main: Soboro
Grip: Sword Strap...im gonna explain why
Ranged: Lightning bow+1
Head: Walahra
Neck: Chivalrous chain
Body: Hauby
Hands: hachiman
Ring 1: Woodsman
Ring 2: that one with acc+4 and store tp+1, amnesia curing thingy
Back: Amement+1
Waist: Swift
legs: im lookin to get b haidate but for now im tryin to decide ah-able
Feet: Fuma

Now heres my question. And please excuse my grammer as i suck apparently at it according to my other posts. I did a little research and read that you have to add +4 store tp to retain a 6 hit while using a sword strap so i figured i would use (on top of full merits btw).. hachiman hands, chivy chain and ring for store tp along with carbonara for food for a total of 15 store tp. im doin 15 because 11 is needed for 6 hit after merits and 4 extra for the sword strap.
I would like to use the sword strap but im just confused whether something else is better or not, because it is like 3% haste amirite?

Like i said previously ive looked around for a post discerning the sword strap but cant find any. Ty for the help. I dont mean to sound like a noob if i do, its just been a very long time since i played the job.

#2 May 10 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Terrasella wrote:
I would like to use the sword strap but im just confused whether something else is better or not, because it is like 3% haste amirite?


Please use a Mythril Grip+1 or a Platinum Grip+1 with soboro and a Pole Grip with everything else. Sword Strap is not equivalent to 3% haste. 3% haste would increase your attack speed by 3% and decrease your recast timers by 3%; however, Sword strap decreases your weapon delay by 3%.

This decrease in delay as you've noticed, changes your TP gain. By not using this strap, this solves your Store TP problem, and you're good to go with only +11 STP in gear with merits.
#3 May 10 2009 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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Part1:
450*.97 = 436.5 delay = 11.1 tp/hit
16.7/11.1 tp/hit = 51 total sTP needed if you keep the same gear for WS
(which you have btw 8+1+1+6=16 not 15)

Part2:
If you wanted to get trade up ring or neck for better gear (15sTP total), this could still be workable
working the other way:
11.1*1.5 = 16.6
16.6*5= 83 aka 17tp needed on WS
17tp/11.1 = 55sTP needed on WS

so you could still make it w/15sTP if you gained 5 more sTP when WSng (WS in hachiman body + flame ring maybe?)

Part3:
Next we need to look at if this is worth it though, if you're willing to blow money on Carbonara for sTP, you could use shinimusha haidate for legs (instead of RK), trade sword strap for pole, and loose hachiman hands for dusk.

You'll end up with slightly more haste (sword isn't as good as 3% haste), and ~+1.28% WS dmg, at the cost of ~5str 1%acc.

Alternatively, you could use shinimusha haidate for legs, and use couerl subs instead of carbonara for a net gain of -1STR -1%acc +10atk.

Alternatively still, you could scrap a 6-hit until you get rajas, use dusk+sword strap, better rings/earrings/legs, and subs.
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#4 May 10 2009 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
Excellent. ty guys for the responses. also 1 more question i have is the second poster said to use mythril or platinum grip, however would using pole grip be better for overall DoT? only because the DA could proc on a ws?? And also the DA on hachiman is my second question.. would that 2 % DA kick in on the ws after latent or thats a no no
#5 May 10 2009 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
however would using pole grip be better for overall DoT?
I wanna say yes, but the more I think about it, probably not (I think I overvalued DA in some previous maths I did). Acc increases melee DoT, which also increases #WS/time even though acc itself is worthless on WS. If you were using Hagun or some other normal GK, pole would be slightly better though. (going to re-evaluate tmw when I'm not tired, really, the difference between grips is pretty negligible though)

Quote:
And also the DA on hachiman is my second question.. would that 2 % DA kick in on the ws after latent
no, as far as latents are concerned all WS are done at 0% TP, and the bonus on hachiman is 100%+
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#6 May 10 2009 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
ok Shinta ill look back thx again
#7 May 11 2009 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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tailoring to your gear /WAR (say 83%acc)

Pole + soboro:
increase melee hits= 1.001x
increase WS count = 1.001x
increase WS dmg= 1.0128x
overall= 400*1.001+600*1.0128*1.001= 1008.1 1008.7

Mythril+1 + soboro
increase melee hits landed = 1.012x
increase melee dmg = ~1.01x
increase WS count = 1.012x
increase WS dmg = 1.007x (~1WSC)
overall= 1020

Plat+1 + soboro
increase melee hits landed = 1.018x
increase in WS count = 1.018x
overall = 1018

soooo, it looks like Mythril+1 is your best bet, although really for the difference in dmg I'd recommend Plat+1 for the stun

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need space to work something else out:

Hagun + /DRG + brutal + WS gorget, ~160 WS STR 91.5acc

Pole:
increase melee hits= 1.019x
increase WS count = 1.019x
increase WS dmg= 1.0099x
overall= 400*1.019+600*1.0099*1.019= 1013 1025

Mythril+1:
increase melee hits landed = 1.0109x
increase melee dmg = ~1.01x
increase WS count = 1.0109x
increase WS dmg = 1.005x (~1WSC)
overall= 1018

This is one of the best cases for pole, so I'm actaully kinda shocked, I think I need to go re-pick up Mythril+1

whoever feel free to relook over this

EDIT: finally figured out what I missed. Go pole for Hagun and Mithril+1 for Soboro

Edited, May 11th 2009 9:31pm by shintasama

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 6:29pm by shintasama
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#8 May 11 2009 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Oooh, that's interesting. If I wasn't between rounds in l4d I'd look more closely at that. Good thing I still have my mythril +1.
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#9 May 11 2009 at 8:40 PM Rating: Default
Hey Shinta thx for replyin. And ill def look into that for sure ;D

Edit: As you can guess from my first post i was tryin to aim for a little boost to a speed build with soboro trying to squeeze in a sword strap. Eh guess by the looks of your math it tosses it out the window though. No biggie though as stun can help the party out. ty again

Edited, May 12th 2009 12:45am by Terrasella
#10 Jun 15 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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*BUMP*

finally realized what I messed up, edited
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Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#11 Jun 16 2009 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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Simplyfying it completely,

The ACC+2 is an extra 1% hit rate

The STR+2 guarantees to increase your WSC by 1.



To Shinta - if you had replied to my question last week like above, we wouldn't have had a problem >.>
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#12 Jun 16 2009 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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sand wrote:
Simplyfying it completely,
The benefit of Mith+1 was never in question, the relative worth of pole was. (w/ pole's increase != straight +2%)

Quote:
To Shinta - if you had replied to my question last week like above, we wouldn't have had a problem >.>
and had you asked something that required an answer above the level covered in the first paragraph of the top sticky I might have.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
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