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Ninja Chainmail +1 vs Loki's KaftanFollow

#1 Jan 01 2012 at 10:06 PM Rating: Default
Just wondering which one is better? I have both. I don't have iga for body yet.
My gear is
Weapons
Main - Hochomasamune
Off hand - Kamome
Head - Iga Zukin +1
Feet - Ballerines
Hands - Iga Tekko +1
Legs - Iga Hakama +2
Ears - Suppa/Brutal
Ammo - Qirmiz Tathlum
Neck - Agasaya's Collar
Rings - Rajas/Epona's
Back - Atheling
Waist - Twilight Belt

Still working on iga feet +2
Still not close to black belt :( Twilight will work til then

What body piece would you recomend for my tp build? And anything else you would change?
Sorry if this has been discussed but I could not find topic anywhere.
Thanks

Lol wow, got my two mains mixed up there monk is other job I play

Edited, Jan 2nd 2012 4:31am by VorondilTheHunter
#2 Jan 01 2012 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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Hate to break it to you but twilight will have to work since BB is monk only.
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#3 Jan 02 2012 at 12:12 AM Rating: Default
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Loki's has no place on a Ninja. Chainmail always wins for TP unless you need accuracy, in which case you're better suited with Koga+2 or Iga+2.

I use:

+2/Rancor/Suppa/Brutal
AF+1/Dusk+1(Koga)/Rajas/Epona's
Atheling/Twilight/+2/Usukane

Not the best at this stage of the game, but still kicks ass. Take note that if you want to use Usukane feet you need 4% Haste from hands, so NQ dusk doesn't cut it.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2012 1:18am by LyltiaofLakshmi
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MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#4 Jan 02 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
Still feeling really dumb for bb thing. It was late for me and just got off of a 4hr monk party.

I can always sell it again but just bought dusk gloves +1

Gonna wear ninja chainmail +1 instead.
Any advise on weapons? Still working on my blade hi but besides that?

I wanna perfect my tp build then gonna try to perfect ws build.
#5 Jan 02 2012 at 11:29 AM Rating: Default
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Weapon comparisons.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#6 Jan 02 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
I have read that one already. Which is why I went and got Kamome. But everywhere says it is the best for offhand. I am trying to get the best reasonable weapon for main. I prefer something from ah or soloable by 99 nin/dnc don't mind a solo challenge. Don't have time for a while for the group stuff I used to do (baby) only get couple hours every night.
#7 Jan 02 2012 at 12:22 PM Rating: Default
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Magian Katana, STR path. Make two while you're at it for outside Abyssea, offhand Kamome inside. AGI path is less damage, but the AGI/Evasion is extremely useful for NIN; there's times I even take my Kannagi off and use two of them. The wind trials are stupid easy too, every NIN needs a pair of these.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2012 1:25pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#8 Jan 03 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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It always seems strange to me that a simple 5% dual wield can outweigh STR +12, DEX +12, Accuracy +17, Attack +17, Critical Hit Rate +5%, and the Dual Wield set bonus that you get from Iga +2. I'm not arguing that it's true; it seems to be a universally accepted fact. I'm just saying that it doesn't "feel" right.
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#9 Jan 03 2012 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It always seems strange to me that a simple 5% dual wield can outweigh STR +12, DEX +12, Accuracy +17, Attack +17, Critical Hit Rate +5%, and the Dual Wield set bonus that you get from Iga +2. I'm not arguing that it's true; it seems to be a universally accepted fact. I'm just saying that it doesn't "feel" right.


i dont do a whole lot on nin but i feel the same way. the 5% is really good but ive seen a lot of people that automatically assume you have capped pdif and acc which may not always be true outside abyssea. inside abyssea, id say most of that is already capped or close and the 5%crit isnt as big of an improvement over your already high crit rate. outside, im sure there is a situation where the +2 would beat the af. im just not sure how often you would be in that situation and how much you want to plan ahead to correct for that. i was wondering how af compared to relic+2. would the additional att and acc offset the 2%less dw?
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#10 Jan 04 2012 at 4:39 AM Rating: Excellent
It's pretty much accepted that the only real time that the Iga Ningi +2 will beat out the Ninja Chainmail/+1 is if you're getting double Marches and Haste. If you're not getting them though, then the overall increase to your attack speed from the 5% Dual Wield on the chainmail is going to help you more.
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#11 Jan 05 2012 at 4:18 AM Rating: Good
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Koga chainmail +2 is only 3% DW? I've been looking for info on that, and now I am sad. By the way, with the 7% DW on koga hakama +2, shouldn't they beat out iga +2? My sketchy napkin math suggests they are, with only 22 haste from gear and 15 from buffs.

41 haste & 50 DW: -70.5% delay. 390 base delay becomes 115.05. 31.29 Attacks per minute.
37 haste & 57 DW: -72.91% delay. 390 base delay becomes 105.651. 34.07 attack per minute, an 8.88% increase.

Am I wrong?
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#12 Jan 06 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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AniRedMage wrote:
Am I wrong?
No,

I'd have to pull up some of our old math discussions I've saved but the amount of acc/str/att etc. you'd have to be "below" cap before additional dual wield, and to lesser extent haste, not winning is crazy when quantified.

I remeber back in the day having to consider the acc % breaking point that ninja chainmail wouldn't be better and it was something like 67% acc (if I recall correct) and below before a acc based chest piece would start winning out... and even then if you got haste or march casted on you DW jumped to the lead again. Att and str was so far removed from the equation is was never considered an option when weighed against DW or haste.
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#13 Jan 12 2012 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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AniRedMage wrote:
Koga chainmail +2 is only 3% DW? I've been looking for info on that, and now I am sad. By the way, with the 7% DW on koga hakama +2, shouldn't they beat out iga +2? My sketchy napkin math suggests they are, with only 22 haste from gear and 15 from buffs.

41 haste & 50 DW: -70.5% delay. 390 base delay becomes 115.05. 31.29 Attacks per minute.
37 haste & 57 DW: -72.91% delay. 390 base delay becomes 105.651. 34.07 attack per minute, an 8.88% increase.

Am I wrong?


Unfortunately yes. But not because of your math. The difference betwen DW and Haste is that Haste increases your attack speed without affecting your weapon delay, which means more TP per swing. DW increases your attack speed by lowering your delay and thus lowers your tp gain as well. Haste also affects magic recast time where as DW does not.

So while the amounts might be the same, you can not compare Haste and DW apples to apples. Haste is always better than DW if you have an option.

Edited, Jan 12th 2012 8:11am by kouter
#14 Jan 12 2012 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It always seems strange to me that a simple 5% dual wield can outweigh STR +12, DEX +12, Accuracy +17, Attack +17, Critical Hit Rate +5%, and the Dual Wield set bonus that you get from Iga +2. I'm not arguing that it's true; it seems to be a universally accepted fact. I'm just saying that it doesn't "feel" right.


I agree with you, and I'm a full haste DW ninja. But I think its a matter of style as well as numbers. I simply feel more powerful when swinging faster and the differenec when you swap out your Af1 is quite significant.

I think where it really affects the numbers is that the AF3 +2 makes each attack do more damage but the AF1 +1 gives your more attacks over time. And when you attack more you have more chances to double and triple attack. I think its this greater chance to proc multiple attacks which eventually outdamages the accuracy/attack/crit bonus from the Af3.

As for the Koga +2, I just can't dig the color scheme so I'm kinda glad its only 3% DW. I wouldn't trade my Af1 for that. Just a matter of style.

I'm also still holding out for an eventual AF1 +2 patch. It seems only logical they would release this as they already have +2 version of Af2 and Af3. Perhaps with the limbus update or something.
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