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Katana Combo ?Follow

#1 Dec 10 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Just sitting at work and brain storming a bit, going to get my Nin back up to par. I lvoe War but a lot of my stuff is solo so the Nin is just awesome DD and solo guy.

Anyway I have always been extremely interested in the OAT2-3 weapons, I guess from coveting the Ridill on my War that I would never of been able to get. So I am a fan boy of swinging insanely fast.

I want to build for my main DD build on Nin a Crit Hit build so just wanted to shoot a few ? to the experts here.

I was thinking the Kamome in the mainhand instead of the offhand, because I would also really like the Enchu+1-2 in the offhand. Basically non-stop swinging. My theory behind that is that if I have a high Crit % build and swinging fast it should be a pretty competetive build. I am still working on getting the RR atma for when I am in Abys.

Now for non-Abys areas I was thinking with high Acc and high emnity, having the multiple swings of the offhand would be helpful for DD tanking when playing around and such.

I would also lke to here what combo's you guys are using and why to try to get some ideas going on.
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#2 Dec 10 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Tobi and Kamome using Blade: Hi, will crush Kamome, Ench, and Blade: Jin.

If you don't have the time for Tobi, I'm sure those katanas will suffice until you do.
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#3 Dec 10 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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I would love ot get Blade: Hi but from the looks of it that might be out of my reach for a bit. I don't have a hhuge amount of play time and to get enough people to take down all those fights might a real chore. Definately going to start to work in that direction though. thanks for the input.
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#4 Dec 10 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Low damage Enchu path isn't really a viable weapon. Reduced multihit frequencies and the appallingly high delay keep the increased TP gain from outweighing its abysmal base damage, even as an offhand weapon.

I'd strongly recommend getting a Tobi+2 to use Blade: Hi. For your offhand, you should probably still be using Kamome. A non-Magian option that should be pretty strong is Oirandori/Kamome; the low delay on each weapon makes for great TP gain with strong DoT.

EDIT: Given the above, Sekka/Kamome or Oirandori/Kamome. If you're up to doing the DA path, that's another option for mainhand.

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 6:36pm by Beleren
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#5 Dec 10 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Which Sekka are you talking about?

And I tried using Wiki and the database her ebut I couldn't find anything on Oirandor?

And you also mentioned the DA path, it would have the same delay as the OA2-3 katana but higher damage of course. You would chose DA 9% over OA2-4 times? THey did extend the enchu+2 to OA2-4 times right?
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#6 Dec 11 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Techsupport wrote:
Which Sekka are you talking about?

Probably STR path, DEX if you need accuracy for whatever reason.

Quote:
And I tried using Wiki and the database her ebut I couldn't find anything on Oirandor?


http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19291/oirandori

Quote:
And you also mentioned the DA path, it would have the same delay as the OA2-3 katana but higher damage of course. You would chose DA 9% over OA2-4 times? THey did extend the enchu+2 to OA2-4 times right?

I would, and yes. Partly for the vastly improved base damage and partly for the fact that DA procs on WS whereas OAX does not. OA2-4 path's increased TP gain doesn't even come close to compensating for the loss of damage.
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#7 Dec 12 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is Uzura +1 a decent enough placeholder for Tobi with its +10%dmg on WS ?
It seems easier than the elemental road, being less dependent on day and weather.

Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:12am by SeeYouTaru
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#8 Dec 12 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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SeeYouTaru wrote:
Is Uzura +1 a decent enough placeholder for Tobi with its +10%dmg on WS ?
It seems easier than the elemental road, being less dependent on day and weather.

Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:12am by SeeYouTaru


I was using uzura+1 w/ ws dmg+10% at 85. But now I'm not entirely sure which direction to take with it, and i think i'm going to leave it at the 85 til we see what future ninja weaponskills hold. Essentially it splits off into a higher base damage ws+10% or a TP Bonus +100. Right now tp bonus means almost nothing for ninja, but if a new weaponskill comes along with a great ftp bonus, i don't want to have to redo the katana.

As it is I'm going to upgrade my 3 sekka +1s (2x agi and 1x dex). and try to get my hands on that katana listed above. To answer your question, I'm pretty sure a Tobi is better than uzura+1 by leagues if only because of blade: hi.


Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:50am by yonderleaf
#9 Dec 12 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Hello fello NINs. I'm currently working on the kannagi+1/enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) as my katana combo. Imo this would be the best or atleast one of the best DD katana combos out there.From what I've heard Blade: Hi is the official Blade: Jin killer.The enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) is the joytoyish weapon nins have been waiting for imo. The nms needed to recieve the katanas I mentioned don't seem that tought to take down. I'm curious as to what your opinions are for this combo? I have yet to see anyone else mention this combo in this or previous threads.
#10 Dec 12 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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yonderleaf wrote:
SeeYouTaru wrote:
Is Uzura +1 a decent enough placeholder for Tobi with its +10%dmg on WS ?
It seems easier than the elemental road, being less dependent on day and weather.

Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:12am by SeeYouTaru


I was using uzura+1 w/ ws dmg+10% at 85. But now I'm not entirely sure which direction to take with it, and i think i'm going to leave it at the 85 til we see what future ninja weaponskills hold. Essentially it splits off into a higher base damage ws+10% or a TP Bonus +100. Right now tp bonus means almost nothing for ninja, but if a new weaponskill comes along with a great ftp bonus, i don't want to have to redo the katana.

As it is I'm going to upgrade my 3 sekka +1s (2x agi and 1x dex). and try to get my hands on that katana listed above. To answer your question, I'm pretty sure a Tobi is better than uzura+1 by leagues if only because of blade: hi.


Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:50am by yonderleaf

It is possible but improbable that they'd release a sufficiently powerful Damage varies with TP WS for katana to justify the TP Bonus path. Bear in mind that fTP is only applied to the first hit of a weaponskill; since you're always DWing a TP Bonus WS would only partly (albeit the more significant part) benefit from TP Bonus. Any additional hits would reduce the benefit further. Think of it in terms of GAxe weaponskills: you didn't King's Justice with a Martial Bhuj at 75, you used your trusty Perdu Voulge.

Also, I have my doubts that they'll release stronger WS than those tied to the Empyrean/WoE weapons (barring dagger, staff, and club).

LeifeiOfSiren wrote:
Hello fello NINs. I'm currently working on the kannagi+1/enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) as my katana combo. Imo this would be the best or atleast one of the best DD katana combos out there.From what I've heard Blade: Hi is the official Blade: Jin killer.The enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) is the joytoyish weapon nins have been waiting for imo. The nms needed to recieve the katanas I mentioned don't seem that tought to take down. I'm curious as to what your opinions are for this combo? I have yet to see anyone else mention this combo in this or previous threads.

High delay means Kannagi aftermath procs less often and OAT doesn't affect your mainhand. I'd recommend either using a low delay weapon for more hits with Kannagi over time or switching to the DA path.
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#11 Dec 13 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It is possible but improbable that they'd release a sufficiently powerful Damage varies with TP WS for katana to justify the TP Bonus path. Bear in mind that fTP is only applied to the first hit of a weaponskill; since you're always DWing a TP Bonus WS would only partly (albeit the more significant part) benefit from TP Bonus. Any additional hits would reduce the benefit further. Think of it in terms of GAxe weaponskills: you didn't King's Justice with a Martial Bhuj at 75, you used your trusty Perdu Voulge.


This has been discussed before, and lets be honest - The only Ws's that benefit from TP-Bonus's are 1 hitters. Only weapons worth goingthe TPbonus route in game are GKT and GS. Both have high dmg weapons with strong 1 hit ws's via high FTP or high WSC or a combination etc.

For NIN to ever get a 1HIT WS that does massive dmg with a 'damage varies by tp' score, you need either a high DMG weapon (like a 2H) or a FTP multiplier like Blade:Hi's that scales up still with maybe STR or DEX for WSC. Basically, its not going to happen.

For the guy undecided on which path to take, the weapon DMG+ keepingthe WSDMG+10% is best option for nin.

TBF, theres way to many katana to chose from atm, I do aggree thatthe high dmg OA2X is a nice offhand, but so is the Kamome, and easy to get IF your in a NM abyss group. The answer i guess is multiple katana's for the occasion, but in abyss with RR/VVorSA I'd like Kamome offhand.
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#12 Dec 13 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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So I am going to start to dedicate some time to try to get one of the Blade: hi katanas. Honestly I shouldn't see that happening anytime soon but I will definately work towards it.

I also understand that the Kamome is a great offhand, shooting for that one as well.

In the mean time what combo would you suggest? I just came back so I have the standard (or used to be) Senji/fudo mix. I was thinking of going to the multi hit or DA offhand and keeping the senji in mainhand since I tend to do a lot of solo stuff but want a good DD setup as well. I was thinking the EVA ones but that is a lot of time to dedicate just for solo stuff.

I plan on doing a lot of seal hunting for AF3 gear so I was looking for a good solo/DD katana setup as I will be going /dnc for most of the times when I can't get the LS to farm with me.

Any input would be appreciated, at least until I can get the better katanas that have already been mentioned in this thread.
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#13 Dec 13 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I am working on the OA2-4 path for /dnc purposes of tp gain and being able to recover quickly if needed. I may be making a mistake but I think it will be a nice benefit to e able to fully use the /dnc tools we now have available to us.
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#14 Dec 13 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
It is possible but improbable that they'd release a sufficiently powerful Damage varies with TP WS for katana to justify the TP Bonus path. Bear in mind that fTP is only applied to the first hit of a weaponskill; since you're always DWing a TP Bonus WS would only partly (albeit the more significant part) benefit from TP Bonus. Any additional hits would reduce the benefit further. Think of it in terms of GAxe weaponskills: you didn't King's Justice with a Martial Bhuj at 75, you used your trusty Perdu Voulge.


This has been discussed before, and lets be honest - The only Ws's that benefit from TP-Bonus's are 1 hitters. Only weapons worth goingthe TPbonus route in game are GKT and GS. Both have high dmg weapons with strong 1 hit ws's via high FTP or high WSC or a combination etc.

For NIN to ever get a 1HIT WS that does massive dmg with a 'damage varies by tp' score, you need either a high DMG weapon (like a 2H) or a FTP multiplier like Blade:Hi's that scales up still with maybe STR or DEX for WSC. Basically, its not going to happen.

For the guy undecided on which path to take, the weapon DMG+ keepingthe WSDMG+10% is best option for nin.

TBF, theres way to many katana to chose from atm, I do aggree thatthe high dmg OA2X is a nice offhand, but so is the Kamome, and easy to get IF your in a NM abyss group. The answer i guess is multiple katana's for the occasion, but in abyss with RR/VVorSA I'd like Kamome offhand.

I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.

That said, weapon base damage has very little impact on the value of TP bonus. That only changes the difference in damage on the offhand hit (assuming there is a discrepancy to begin with), which is minor (especially due to WSC). Since it's essentially (weapondmg+WSC)*fTP*pDIF, altering fTP (ie introducing TP Bonus into the equation) impacts damage at the same rate for any non-zero values of base damage and pDIF.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 5:55pm by Beleren
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#15 Dec 13 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Techsupport wrote:
So I am going to start to dedicate some time to try to get one of the Blade: hi katanas. Honestly I shouldn't see that happening anytime soon but I will definately work towards it.

I also understand that the Kamome is a great offhand, shooting for that one as well.

In the mean time what combo would you suggest? I just came back so I have the standard (or used to be) Senji/fudo mix. I was thinking of going to the multi hit or DA offhand and keeping the senji in mainhand since I tend to do a lot of solo stuff but want a good DD setup as well. I was thinking the EVA ones but that is a lot of time to dedicate just for solo stuff.

I plan on doing a lot of seal hunting for AF3 gear so I was looking for a good solo/DD katana setup as I will be going /dnc for most of the times when I can't get the LS to farm with me.

Any input would be appreciated, at least until I can get the better katanas that have already been mentioned in this thread.


Well, if you want an immediate boost for your solo/DD work, you can buy an Ich-an from the AH. Its Lv. 87, 46 Dmg, 227 delay, +4 STR +4 EVA. They arent terribly expensive, and you can get two. I'm not a math-wiz, so maybe someone will say the difference is marginal at best and save your money. I would like to pick one up, and use it until I finish my Kannagi, or at least a WS ToM and off hand Kamome.
Not sure I want to do too many ToM katanas that serve the same purpose(DD). Kannagi/Kamome is my current goal, so if I ToM anything else, its probably gonna be MABs or AGL/EVA katanas.
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#16 Dec 14 2010 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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LeifeiOfSiren wrote:
Hello fello NINs. I'm currently working on the kannagi+1/enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) as my katana combo. Imo this would be the best or atleast one of the best DD katana combos out there.From what I've heard Blade: Hi is the official Blade: Jin killer.The enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) is the joytoyish weapon nins have been waiting for imo. The nms needed to recieve the katanas I mentioned don't seem that tought to take down. I'm curious as to what your opinions are for this combo? I have yet to see anyone else mention this combo in this or previous threads.


Obviously main Kannagi would be the best. 95% of players won't be having the playtime or the friends/LS to get them this as its a substantial hourly investment [inb4 bg.] The WoE katana mentioned previously is less work to upgrade, can be largely completed solo, and gives access to the same WS. There would be literally no difference aside slight delay, and the aftermath, ODD proc.

Kamome would be a better offhand than Enchu IMO.
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#17 Dec 14 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Default
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One thing to bear in mind regarding Kamome: if you're using Atma of the Sanguine Scythe for whatever reason, critdmg+ will be capped from your atmas alone. In that situation, you'd be better off not using Kamome.
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#18 Dec 14 2010 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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RR+VV+Alpha-Omega
???
Profit
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#19 Dec 14 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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HP-: Major vs HP+: Major... Migawari is great and all but there are still situations where that HP spread will get you killed. I'm not saying it's the best choice in all situations, only that there are situations where you may want to use Sanguine Scythe and in those situations Kamome, Loki's Kaftan, and Qirmiz Tathlum should be swapped out for something else.

Also... If you're talking straight DDing, that should be RR + VV + GH for non-Hi NINs. Not sure what the best DPS combo is for Kannagi/Tobi wielders, but the above would make a nice general-purpose setup for them as well since the regain is nice for speeding up !! procing.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 2:17pm by Beleren
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#20 Dec 15 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Good
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Beleren wrote:
I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.


Lol, just re-read over those posts, Sat night I was so drunk, after I wrote the first sentance I forgot what i was replying too and just went with the flow.



Also - so crit+dmg caps?
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#21 Dec 15 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Beleren wrote:
HP-: Major vs HP+: Major... Migawari is great and all but there are still situations where that HP spread will get you killed. I'm not saying it's the best choice in all situations, only that there are situations where you may want to use Sanguine Scythe and in those situations Kamome, Loki's Kaftan, and Qirmiz Tathlum should be swapped out for something else.

Also... If you're talking straight DDing, that should be RR + VV + GH for non-Hi NINs. Not sure what the best DPS combo is for Kannagi/Tobi wielders, but the above would make a nice general-purpose setup for them as well since the regain is nice for speeding up !! procing.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 2:17pm by Beleren


Forgot about Gnarled Horn. Yea that would be hot.

I think you mean GH FOR Hi nins, and not for non-Hi nins? The crit rate and 50 agi and all.
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#22 Dec 15 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Beleren wrote:
I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.


Lol, just re-read over those posts, Sat night I was so drunk, after I wrote the first sentance I forgot what i was replying too and just went with the flow.

Also - so crit+dmg caps?


Crit DMG appears to cap at 50%.

Crit hit rate FROM ATMAS also appears to cap at 50%. Crit rate itself appears to have no cap, as rogue's roll and thunder staff, and capped dDex get almost 100%.




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#23 Dec 15 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Beleren wrote:
I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.


Lol, just re-read over those posts, Sat night I was so drunk, after I wrote the first sentance I forgot what i was replying too and just went with the flow.



Also - so crit+dmg caps?

That would explain it lol. Yeah, as mentioned it caps at +50%.

Palides wrote:
Beleren wrote:
HP-: Major vs HP+: Major... Migawari is great and all but there are still situations where that HP spread will get you killed. I'm not saying it's the best choice in all situations, only that there are situations where you may want to use Sanguine Scythe and in those situations Kamome, Loki's Kaftan, and Qirmiz Tathlum should be swapped out for something else.

Also... If you're talking straight DDing, that should be RR + VV + GH for non-Hi NINs. Not sure what the best DPS combo is for Kannagi/Tobi wielders, but the above would make a nice general-purpose setup for them as well since the regain is nice for speeding up !! procing.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 2:17pm by Beleren


Forgot about Gnarled Horn. Yea that would be hot.

I think you mean GH FOR Hi nins, and not for non-Hi nins? The crit rate and 50 agi and all.

GH would definitely be the second atma for Hi NINs, with VV being the one you'd potentially swap out in most situations. Non-Hi NINs would still benefit from Gnarled Horn as a third atma, but if I had to swap out an atma in this situation I'd probably swap out GH first rather than VV.
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#24 Dec 15 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for all the input. I think I have decided to get the DA as mainland until I can get blade: hi, which might be a while. It shouldn't take me a ton of time to get the kamome so hopefully I will have that soon. The way I figure it having a high DA rate and low delay offhand might help a crit hit build.

Now in the future when I get blade: hi, naturally that will go mainhand. Will the increased DA rate outweigh the low delay of the kamome? Because with the aftermath Proc and the crit factor (both of which can go on a DA round) it seems to me that might make up for just the low delay. Any of you math guys know how that might work out?
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#25 Jan 18 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Instead of starting a new thread - what Katana combo's are you using now, theres so many to chose from.

Im betting there are plenty of ppl using non-magian katana's too (im still recovering from near burn-out from other weapon trials) but there are some decent R/Ex options.

Which two would you use out of Ichi-an +1, Kanome, Kogara, Sekerei, and Toki?

I got all of the above, and was wondering if Kogara/Kanome would be a good combo. The only thing its lacking is Ichi-an+1's WS DMG. I'm not overly fond of the Sekerei and have never tried the Toki.
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#26 Jan 20 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I haven't had too much time to parse official results... Because I have been lvl'n other jobs, and I'm generally told to go other jobs to events. Since we got like 20 nin's, 20 war, 30 mnk, and only 2 brd's -.-;

BUT

I had been using Ichi-an, and off handing Twilight Knife.. and I have noticed a big diff in tp gain vs. other nin's. I just Got Kamome last night, so I will start doing some more official testing soon. However I really feel Twilight Knife is going to win as the off hand weapon of choice.

Also since I finally got GH last night, I will be testing it out as well.

Usually roll with Ichi-an + Twilight Knife >> RR-VV-Apoc
Will try out several combo's:
Ichi/Twilight >> RR-VV-Apoc
Ichi/Twilight >> RR-GH-Apoc

Ichi/Kamome >> RR-VV-Apoc
Ichi/Kamome >> RR-GH-Apoc

Kamome/Twilight >> RR-VV-Apoc
Kamome/Twilight >> RR-GH-Apoc
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