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#1 Dec 10 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Just sitting at work and brain storming a bit, going to get my Nin back up to par. I lvoe War but a lot of my stuff is solo so the Nin is just awesome DD and solo guy.

Anyway I have always been extremely interested in the OAT2-3 weapons, I guess from coveting the Ridill on my War that I would never of been able to get. So I am a fan boy of swinging insanely fast.

I want to build for my main DD build on Nin a Crit Hit build so just wanted to shoot a few ? to the experts here.

I was thinking the Kamome in the mainhand instead of the offhand, because I would also really like the Enchu+1-2 in the offhand. Basically non-stop swinging. My theory behind that is that if I have a high Crit % build and swinging fast it should be a pretty competetive build. I am still working on getting the RR atma for when I am in Abys.

Now for non-Abys areas I was thinking with high Acc and high emnity, having the multiple swings of the offhand would be helpful for DD tanking when playing around and such.

I would also lke to here what combo's you guys are using and why to try to get some ideas going on.
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#2 Dec 10 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Tobi and Kamome using Blade: Hi, will crush Kamome, Ench, and Blade: Jin.

If you don't have the time for Tobi, I'm sure those katanas will suffice until you do.
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#3 Dec 10 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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I would love ot get Blade: Hi but from the looks of it that might be out of my reach for a bit. I don't have a hhuge amount of play time and to get enough people to take down all those fights might a real chore. Definately going to start to work in that direction though. thanks for the input.
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#4 Dec 10 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Low damage Enchu path isn't really a viable weapon. Reduced multihit frequencies and the appallingly high delay keep the increased TP gain from outweighing its abysmal base damage, even as an offhand weapon.

I'd strongly recommend getting a Tobi+2 to use Blade: Hi. For your offhand, you should probably still be using Kamome. A non-Magian option that should be pretty strong is Oirandori/Kamome; the low delay on each weapon makes for great TP gain with strong DoT.

EDIT: Given the above, Sekka/Kamome or Oirandori/Kamome. If you're up to doing the DA path, that's another option for mainhand.

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 6:36pm by Beleren
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#5 Dec 10 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Which Sekka are you talking about?

And I tried using Wiki and the database her ebut I couldn't find anything on Oirandor?

And you also mentioned the DA path, it would have the same delay as the OA2-3 katana but higher damage of course. You would chose DA 9% over OA2-4 times? THey did extend the enchu+2 to OA2-4 times right?
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#6 Dec 11 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Techsupport wrote:
Which Sekka are you talking about?

Probably STR path, DEX if you need accuracy for whatever reason.

Quote:
And I tried using Wiki and the database her ebut I couldn't find anything on Oirandor?


http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19291/oirandori

Quote:
And you also mentioned the DA path, it would have the same delay as the OA2-3 katana but higher damage of course. You would chose DA 9% over OA2-4 times? THey did extend the enchu+2 to OA2-4 times right?

I would, and yes. Partly for the vastly improved base damage and partly for the fact that DA procs on WS whereas OAX does not. OA2-4 path's increased TP gain doesn't even come close to compensating for the loss of damage.
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#7 Dec 12 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is Uzura +1 a decent enough placeholder for Tobi with its +10%dmg on WS ?
It seems easier than the elemental road, being less dependent on day and weather.

Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:12am by SeeYouTaru
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#8 Dec 12 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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SeeYouTaru wrote:
Is Uzura +1 a decent enough placeholder for Tobi with its +10%dmg on WS ?
It seems easier than the elemental road, being less dependent on day and weather.

Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:12am by SeeYouTaru


I was using uzura+1 w/ ws dmg+10% at 85. But now I'm not entirely sure which direction to take with it, and i think i'm going to leave it at the 85 til we see what future ninja weaponskills hold. Essentially it splits off into a higher base damage ws+10% or a TP Bonus +100. Right now tp bonus means almost nothing for ninja, but if a new weaponskill comes along with a great ftp bonus, i don't want to have to redo the katana.

As it is I'm going to upgrade my 3 sekka +1s (2x agi and 1x dex). and try to get my hands on that katana listed above. To answer your question, I'm pretty sure a Tobi is better than uzura+1 by leagues if only because of blade: hi.


Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:50am by yonderleaf
#9 Dec 12 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Hello fello NINs. I'm currently working on the kannagi+1/enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) as my katana combo. Imo this would be the best or atleast one of the best DD katana combos out there.From what I've heard Blade: Hi is the official Blade: Jin killer.The enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) is the joytoyish weapon nins have been waiting for imo. The nms needed to recieve the katanas I mentioned don't seem that tought to take down. I'm curious as to what your opinions are for this combo? I have yet to see anyone else mention this combo in this or previous threads.
#10 Dec 12 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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yonderleaf wrote:
SeeYouTaru wrote:
Is Uzura +1 a decent enough placeholder for Tobi with its +10%dmg on WS ?
It seems easier than the elemental road, being less dependent on day and weather.

Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:12am by SeeYouTaru


I was using uzura+1 w/ ws dmg+10% at 85. But now I'm not entirely sure which direction to take with it, and i think i'm going to leave it at the 85 til we see what future ninja weaponskills hold. Essentially it splits off into a higher base damage ws+10% or a TP Bonus +100. Right now tp bonus means almost nothing for ninja, but if a new weaponskill comes along with a great ftp bonus, i don't want to have to redo the katana.

As it is I'm going to upgrade my 3 sekka +1s (2x agi and 1x dex). and try to get my hands on that katana listed above. To answer your question, I'm pretty sure a Tobi is better than uzura+1 by leagues if only because of blade: hi.


Edited, Dec 12th 2010 11:50am by yonderleaf

It is possible but improbable that they'd release a sufficiently powerful Damage varies with TP WS for katana to justify the TP Bonus path. Bear in mind that fTP is only applied to the first hit of a weaponskill; since you're always DWing a TP Bonus WS would only partly (albeit the more significant part) benefit from TP Bonus. Any additional hits would reduce the benefit further. Think of it in terms of GAxe weaponskills: you didn't King's Justice with a Martial Bhuj at 75, you used your trusty Perdu Voulge.

Also, I have my doubts that they'll release stronger WS than those tied to the Empyrean/WoE weapons (barring dagger, staff, and club).

LeifeiOfSiren wrote:
Hello fello NINs. I'm currently working on the kannagi+1/enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) as my katana combo. Imo this would be the best or atleast one of the best DD katana combos out there.From what I've heard Blade: Hi is the official Blade: Jin killer.The enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) is the joytoyish weapon nins have been waiting for imo. The nms needed to recieve the katanas I mentioned don't seem that tought to take down. I'm curious as to what your opinions are for this combo? I have yet to see anyone else mention this combo in this or previous threads.

High delay means Kannagi aftermath procs less often and OAT doesn't affect your mainhand. I'd recommend either using a low delay weapon for more hits with Kannagi over time or switching to the DA path.
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#11 Dec 13 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It is possible but improbable that they'd release a sufficiently powerful Damage varies with TP WS for katana to justify the TP Bonus path. Bear in mind that fTP is only applied to the first hit of a weaponskill; since you're always DWing a TP Bonus WS would only partly (albeit the more significant part) benefit from TP Bonus. Any additional hits would reduce the benefit further. Think of it in terms of GAxe weaponskills: you didn't King's Justice with a Martial Bhuj at 75, you used your trusty Perdu Voulge.


This has been discussed before, and lets be honest - The only Ws's that benefit from TP-Bonus's are 1 hitters. Only weapons worth goingthe TPbonus route in game are GKT and GS. Both have high dmg weapons with strong 1 hit ws's via high FTP or high WSC or a combination etc.

For NIN to ever get a 1HIT WS that does massive dmg with a 'damage varies by tp' score, you need either a high DMG weapon (like a 2H) or a FTP multiplier like Blade:Hi's that scales up still with maybe STR or DEX for WSC. Basically, its not going to happen.

For the guy undecided on which path to take, the weapon DMG+ keepingthe WSDMG+10% is best option for nin.

TBF, theres way to many katana to chose from atm, I do aggree thatthe high dmg OA2X is a nice offhand, but so is the Kamome, and easy to get IF your in a NM abyss group. The answer i guess is multiple katana's for the occasion, but in abyss with RR/VVorSA I'd like Kamome offhand.
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#12 Dec 13 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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So I am going to start to dedicate some time to try to get one of the Blade: hi katanas. Honestly I shouldn't see that happening anytime soon but I will definately work towards it.

I also understand that the Kamome is a great offhand, shooting for that one as well.

In the mean time what combo would you suggest? I just came back so I have the standard (or used to be) Senji/fudo mix. I was thinking of going to the multi hit or DA offhand and keeping the senji in mainhand since I tend to do a lot of solo stuff but want a good DD setup as well. I was thinking the EVA ones but that is a lot of time to dedicate just for solo stuff.

I plan on doing a lot of seal hunting for AF3 gear so I was looking for a good solo/DD katana setup as I will be going /dnc for most of the times when I can't get the LS to farm with me.

Any input would be appreciated, at least until I can get the better katanas that have already been mentioned in this thread.
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#13 Dec 13 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I am working on the OA2-4 path for /dnc purposes of tp gain and being able to recover quickly if needed. I may be making a mistake but I think it will be a nice benefit to e able to fully use the /dnc tools we now have available to us.
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#14 Dec 13 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
It is possible but improbable that they'd release a sufficiently powerful Damage varies with TP WS for katana to justify the TP Bonus path. Bear in mind that fTP is only applied to the first hit of a weaponskill; since you're always DWing a TP Bonus WS would only partly (albeit the more significant part) benefit from TP Bonus. Any additional hits would reduce the benefit further. Think of it in terms of GAxe weaponskills: you didn't King's Justice with a Martial Bhuj at 75, you used your trusty Perdu Voulge.


This has been discussed before, and lets be honest - The only Ws's that benefit from TP-Bonus's are 1 hitters. Only weapons worth goingthe TPbonus route in game are GKT and GS. Both have high dmg weapons with strong 1 hit ws's via high FTP or high WSC or a combination etc.

For NIN to ever get a 1HIT WS that does massive dmg with a 'damage varies by tp' score, you need either a high DMG weapon (like a 2H) or a FTP multiplier like Blade:Hi's that scales up still with maybe STR or DEX for WSC. Basically, its not going to happen.

For the guy undecided on which path to take, the weapon DMG+ keepingthe WSDMG+10% is best option for nin.

TBF, theres way to many katana to chose from atm, I do aggree thatthe high dmg OA2X is a nice offhand, but so is the Kamome, and easy to get IF your in a NM abyss group. The answer i guess is multiple katana's for the occasion, but in abyss with RR/VVorSA I'd like Kamome offhand.

I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.

That said, weapon base damage has very little impact on the value of TP bonus. That only changes the difference in damage on the offhand hit (assuming there is a discrepancy to begin with), which is minor (especially due to WSC). Since it's essentially (weapondmg+WSC)*fTP*pDIF, altering fTP (ie introducing TP Bonus into the equation) impacts damage at the same rate for any non-zero values of base damage and pDIF.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 5:55pm by Beleren
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#15 Dec 13 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Techsupport wrote:
So I am going to start to dedicate some time to try to get one of the Blade: hi katanas. Honestly I shouldn't see that happening anytime soon but I will definately work towards it.

I also understand that the Kamome is a great offhand, shooting for that one as well.

In the mean time what combo would you suggest? I just came back so I have the standard (or used to be) Senji/fudo mix. I was thinking of going to the multi hit or DA offhand and keeping the senji in mainhand since I tend to do a lot of solo stuff but want a good DD setup as well. I was thinking the EVA ones but that is a lot of time to dedicate just for solo stuff.

I plan on doing a lot of seal hunting for AF3 gear so I was looking for a good solo/DD katana setup as I will be going /dnc for most of the times when I can't get the LS to farm with me.

Any input would be appreciated, at least until I can get the better katanas that have already been mentioned in this thread.


Well, if you want an immediate boost for your solo/DD work, you can buy an Ich-an from the AH. Its Lv. 87, 46 Dmg, 227 delay, +4 STR +4 EVA. They arent terribly expensive, and you can get two. I'm not a math-wiz, so maybe someone will say the difference is marginal at best and save your money. I would like to pick one up, and use it until I finish my Kannagi, or at least a WS ToM and off hand Kamome.
Not sure I want to do too many ToM katanas that serve the same purpose(DD). Kannagi/Kamome is my current goal, so if I ToM anything else, its probably gonna be MABs or AGL/EVA katanas.
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#16 Dec 14 2010 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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LeifeiOfSiren wrote:
Hello fello NINs. I'm currently working on the kannagi+1/enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) as my katana combo. Imo this would be the best or atleast one of the best DD katana combos out there.From what I've heard Blade: Hi is the official Blade: Jin killer.The enchu+1(OAT DMG 39 delay 232) is the joytoyish weapon nins have been waiting for imo. The nms needed to recieve the katanas I mentioned don't seem that tought to take down. I'm curious as to what your opinions are for this combo? I have yet to see anyone else mention this combo in this or previous threads.


Obviously main Kannagi would be the best. 95% of players won't be having the playtime or the friends/LS to get them this as its a substantial hourly investment [inb4 bg.] The WoE katana mentioned previously is less work to upgrade, can be largely completed solo, and gives access to the same WS. There would be literally no difference aside slight delay, and the aftermath, ODD proc.

Kamome would be a better offhand than Enchu IMO.
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#17 Dec 14 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Default
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One thing to bear in mind regarding Kamome: if you're using Atma of the Sanguine Scythe for whatever reason, critdmg+ will be capped from your atmas alone. In that situation, you'd be better off not using Kamome.
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#18 Dec 14 2010 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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RR+VV+Alpha-Omega
???
Profit
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#19 Dec 14 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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HP-: Major vs HP+: Major... Migawari is great and all but there are still situations where that HP spread will get you killed. I'm not saying it's the best choice in all situations, only that there are situations where you may want to use Sanguine Scythe and in those situations Kamome, Loki's Kaftan, and Qirmiz Tathlum should be swapped out for something else.

Also... If you're talking straight DDing, that should be RR + VV + GH for non-Hi NINs. Not sure what the best DPS combo is for Kannagi/Tobi wielders, but the above would make a nice general-purpose setup for them as well since the regain is nice for speeding up !! procing.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 2:17pm by Beleren
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#20 Dec 15 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Good
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Beleren wrote:
I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.


Lol, just re-read over those posts, Sat night I was so drunk, after I wrote the first sentance I forgot what i was replying too and just went with the flow.



Also - so crit+dmg caps?
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#21 Dec 15 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Beleren wrote:
HP-: Major vs HP+: Major... Migawari is great and all but there are still situations where that HP spread will get you killed. I'm not saying it's the best choice in all situations, only that there are situations where you may want to use Sanguine Scythe and in those situations Kamome, Loki's Kaftan, and Qirmiz Tathlum should be swapped out for something else.

Also... If you're talking straight DDing, that should be RR + VV + GH for non-Hi NINs. Not sure what the best DPS combo is for Kannagi/Tobi wielders, but the above would make a nice general-purpose setup for them as well since the regain is nice for speeding up !! procing.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 2:17pm by Beleren


Forgot about Gnarled Horn. Yea that would be hot.

I think you mean GH FOR Hi nins, and not for non-Hi nins? The crit rate and 50 agi and all.
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#22 Dec 15 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Beleren wrote:
I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.


Lol, just re-read over those posts, Sat night I was so drunk, after I wrote the first sentance I forgot what i was replying too and just went with the flow.

Also - so crit+dmg caps?


Crit DMG appears to cap at 50%.

Crit hit rate FROM ATMAS also appears to cap at 50%. Crit rate itself appears to have no cap, as rogue's roll and thunder staff, and capped dDex get almost 100%.




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#23 Dec 15 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Beleren wrote:
I'd like to note that I said it was improbable, and noted how multihits/DWing impact TP Bonus. Additional hits of essentially 1.0 fTP definitely dilute its value from what you'd expect at first glace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like you're disagreeing with me when you basically reiterated my statment.


Lol, just re-read over those posts, Sat night I was so drunk, after I wrote the first sentance I forgot what i was replying too and just went with the flow.



Also - so crit+dmg caps?

That would explain it lol. Yeah, as mentioned it caps at +50%.

Palides wrote:
Beleren wrote:
HP-: Major vs HP+: Major... Migawari is great and all but there are still situations where that HP spread will get you killed. I'm not saying it's the best choice in all situations, only that there are situations where you may want to use Sanguine Scythe and in those situations Kamome, Loki's Kaftan, and Qirmiz Tathlum should be swapped out for something else.

Also... If you're talking straight DDing, that should be RR + VV + GH for non-Hi NINs. Not sure what the best DPS combo is for Kannagi/Tobi wielders, but the above would make a nice general-purpose setup for them as well since the regain is nice for speeding up !! procing.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 2:17pm by Beleren


Forgot about Gnarled Horn. Yea that would be hot.

I think you mean GH FOR Hi nins, and not for non-Hi nins? The crit rate and 50 agi and all.

GH would definitely be the second atma for Hi NINs, with VV being the one you'd potentially swap out in most situations. Non-Hi NINs would still benefit from Gnarled Horn as a third atma, but if I had to swap out an atma in this situation I'd probably swap out GH first rather than VV.
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#24 Dec 15 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for all the input. I think I have decided to get the DA as mainland until I can get blade: hi, which might be a while. It shouldn't take me a ton of time to get the kamome so hopefully I will have that soon. The way I figure it having a high DA rate and low delay offhand might help a crit hit build.

Now in the future when I get blade: hi, naturally that will go mainhand. Will the increased DA rate outweigh the low delay of the kamome? Because with the aftermath Proc and the crit factor (both of which can go on a DA round) it seems to me that might make up for just the low delay. Any of you math guys know how that might work out?
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#25 Jan 18 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Instead of starting a new thread - what Katana combo's are you using now, theres so many to chose from.

Im betting there are plenty of ppl using non-magian katana's too (im still recovering from near burn-out from other weapon trials) but there are some decent R/Ex options.

Which two would you use out of Ichi-an +1, Kanome, Kogara, Sekerei, and Toki?

I got all of the above, and was wondering if Kogara/Kanome would be a good combo. The only thing its lacking is Ichi-an+1's WS DMG. I'm not overly fond of the Sekerei and have never tried the Toki.
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#26 Jan 20 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I haven't had too much time to parse official results... Because I have been lvl'n other jobs, and I'm generally told to go other jobs to events. Since we got like 20 nin's, 20 war, 30 mnk, and only 2 brd's -.-;

BUT

I had been using Ichi-an, and off handing Twilight Knife.. and I have noticed a big diff in tp gain vs. other nin's. I just Got Kamome last night, so I will start doing some more official testing soon. However I really feel Twilight Knife is going to win as the off hand weapon of choice.

Also since I finally got GH last night, I will be testing it out as well.

Usually roll with Ichi-an + Twilight Knife >> RR-VV-Apoc
Will try out several combo's:
Ichi/Twilight >> RR-VV-Apoc
Ichi/Twilight >> RR-GH-Apoc

Ichi/Kamome >> RR-VV-Apoc
Ichi/Kamome >> RR-GH-Apoc

Kamome/Twilight >> RR-VV-Apoc
Kamome/Twilight >> RR-GH-Apoc
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#27 Jan 21 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
I've been using Kamone and Twilight Knife (offhand), my dagger skill was pretty low, but once I got it around/over 300 I became a nonstop hitting machine. Throw in haste and march, and to quote someone in my shell: "It looks like you're having a seizure." I imagine there are other/better options that can outparse Kamone/TK, but it's is a pretty potent combo nevertheless and a fairly easy one for any NIN to put together. Another option in the low delay route is Oirandori, higher base damage and would go well with either Kamone or Twilight Knife.

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 1:57pm by twofli
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#28 Jan 23 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Hmmm, The Oriandori looks nice High DMG fast Katana.

Any idea how many ppl are needed to kill Fleshflayer Killakriq? I'm guessin hes a T3 as you get a title for it.
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#29 Jan 28 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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currently use tobi+2/agi+9 sekka+2. I have a uzura+2 stp version which i use sometimes as well cause it gives me 10.5 tp per attack round versus 9 when i off hand something else. Hopfully this week ill get Sobek katana and atma.
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#30 Apr 06 2011 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I figured I post here instead of starting another thread. Anyways, I see the majority of Ninjas here think that the Kamone is the ideal off-hand for Abysea. So my question is how would you rank the DA(10%) Enchu sai with a decent DA build(outside Abyssea)? I'm a huge fan of the sai weapons and would like to pick one to upgrade. I prefer either the OAT Sai or the 10% DA version.

lv 90 DA Enchu=12.6 dps [51 * 60= 3060/242](This is the dps without the DA proc. I'm not sure how to figure in the DA's 10%.)

The OAT Katana for lv90 wasn't listed in Wiki so I don't know the specs. The lv85 version is the following.

39*60=2340/232*1.4= 14.1 dps

Can anyone good with figures explain this further please.
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#31 Apr 07 2011 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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lv 90 DA Enchu=12.6 dps [51 * 60= 3060/242](This is the dps without the DA proc. I'm not sure how to figure in the DA's 10%.)


I can't really explain it further, but to include the DA proc i'd just be lazy and go 12.6*1.1 = 13.86.


Obviously dps is a poor way to rate weapons and the bonus stats are never applied, and things like ws dmg are obviously higer with a high dmg katana even though a low dmg katana might have superior dps.

Question i'd like to know is whether the occ2x stacks with DA? If it doesn't then the answer is easy to make, DA weapon would win. /war+brutal+belt+back+ring will take your DA rate sufficiently high/


Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:00am by Sandmasterr
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#32 Apr 07 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:

I can't really explain it further, but to include the DA proc i'd just be lazy and go 12.6*1.1 = 13.86.


Obviously dps is a poor way to rate weapons and the bonus stats are never applied, and things like ws dmg are obviously higer with a high dmg katana even though a low dmg katana might have superior dps.

Question i'd like to know is whether the occ2x stacks with DA? If it doesn't then the answer is easy to make, DA weapon would win. /war+brutal+belt+back+ring will take your DA rate sufficiently high/


Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:00am by Sandmasterr


I'm thinking the same thing. I don't have any of the new gear, but the DA cape Twlight belt combined with /war's DA and Brutal would be 30% DA or 33% with Epona's ring. Another reason I'm siding with Enchu is because of the high damage and the ability to raise DA's proc on both weapons. Outside of Abyssea, I'd rate Enchu(DA) as a superior weapon over the Kannagi for a main hand weapon because it's only a few damage points lower plus Jins would be much better due to higher DA procing.[The reason I'm saying this is because I heard Hi isn't that great outside of Abyssea., need verification.]I'm not 100% positive exactly though which is why I'm here on the forum to discuss. I know that my BLU's Vorpal blade rocks the house much better than my NIN/dnc's Jins(on average) because BLU has built in DA thanks to spell traits. I'm going to assume my Jins would increase a lot more if I had the cape, belt, and DA sai. If I'm overlooking anything guys, let me know.
#33 Apr 11 2011 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
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For any ninja's thinking about making the AGL/Eva Katana's but keep putting it off becasue you think it'll be slow, I just want to say don't - I've put little bits of work into them (couple of hours here n there when log in, or log off) and they are very very easy and relatively quick to make.

You can also cross trials aswell if you want to make a pair to speed things up even more: these are the trials that cross paths.

Once you finish the 2nd trial (trial 593) pick up a 2nd katana to start the same path. You can do the 1st and 3rd trials at the same time targeting lizards, or as you might be fighting lizards under ice weather, just wait and do the 3rd trial while your killing the Fungars for the 2nd trial.

After you finish Diremites x200 for the first time, get your 2nd katana onto that trial and you can do Diremites and vermin killer during wind weather/day at the same time as Diremites are vermin. Diremites is the most annoying part of the trials due to slow re-pop time but once their done its smooth sailing to the end.

A very easy set of trials, if i'd known earlier I would of made them much earlier. 2x High dmg, low evasion katanas with nearly 50EVA on your weapons. They are a difference maker.

Edited, Apr 11th 2011 7:51am by Sandmasterr
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#34 Apr 11 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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The dilema now is back to combo for dmg or times when Eva isn't needed.

I'm not sure of best between Sekka+2, Kamome, and Twighlight Knife. I'm thinking it has to be Kamome/TK which is nice for many nins, as they are both easy katanas to get (you can turn up in mis coast and a ls will give u a kamome fairly fast - or offer 100k and you'll get one even quicker as its 100% and Sobek is spammed continuously).


I did see a nin Dual Wielding Kanagi/Tobi+2 - now that'd be nice! Presumably you could dual-wield Kannagi+2/Kannagi+1? I'm yet to see that though, wonder if the aftermath occ double dmg stacks lol. I've seen a lvl90 Kikoku / Kannagi+1 too.
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#35 Apr 11 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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I have had very nice results using Oriandori/Kamome with Twilight Belt/Epona's Ring. Within Abyssea I use GH/RR/Apoc. Almost half done with Briareus and have stashed about a dozen Sobek skin.

The high damage/low delay match is a lot of fun.
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#36 Apr 13 2011 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Anybody know if there is a lv90 version of Enchu(OAT) and the specs behind it? Wiki doesn't have it listed and I'm currently at the point where I must either choose the OAT(2x) or the 10% DA enchu. I'd prefer the 10% DA myself because of the increased WS damage and base damage, but I must know if there is a lv90 version first.
#37 Apr 13 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Anybody know if there is a lv90 version of Enchu(OAT) and the specs behind it? Wiki doesn't have it listed and I'm currently at the point where I must either choose the OAT(2x) or the 10% DA enchu. I'd prefer the 10% DA myself because of the increased WS damage and base damage, but I must know if there is a lv90 version first.

I don't know if such a weapon exists. But if you're in game, you can talk to the Magian Moogle and see if the lvl 85 version has a trial. You should be able to look up any subsequent trials and the specs on the rewarded version.
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#38 Apr 13 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:

I don't know if such a weapon exists. But if you're in game, you can talk to the Magian Moogle and see if the lvl 85 version has a trial. You should be able to look up any subsequent trials and the specs on the rewarded version.


Edit: Ok I found it. Here it is for anyone that's is curious.


Enchu +2
41dmg 232 delay
occ. attacks twice
DPS 14.8

So by comparison, that's -10 less base damage and -10 delay to the DA% Enchu.

It seems too close to call. I know the DA Enchu will have higher WS's, but it looks like the OAT Enchu is slightly faster and isn't weak by much. I'm going to assume I'll be subbing /war for both, not solo on /dnc for my last question. I remember how /war did very little for my RDM in terms of the DA proc when used with my Joyuese. Which leads me to the question, would the OAT katana be more of a hindrance and I should just go for stacking DA%?


Edited, Apr 13th 2011 12:40pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#39 Apr 15 2011 at 4:52 AM Rating: Good
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This is just me, but recently all I seem to be subbing is /DNC, but if im not solo i'm with my abyssea friends in a 4man setup. For me now, having the occx2 would be most beneficial, many times more than DA one. Also, inside abyssea the dmg difference in katana's for ws is minimal due to the huge boosts to wsc we get.

Its still very close, but then I start thinking post abyssea, and if /dnc stays my main then occ2x would be the better choice. Also, I'm using 2x Sekka's atm so to me its a wash, but me personally i'd go for the occ2x. It would definately serve its utility, but the main magian katana's imo are still emph/woe/sekka. Blade Hi still does substantially more dmg than jin outside abyssea aslong as the mainhand doesnt miss.

Maybe get some more opinions before chosing.
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#40 Apr 20 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
This is just me, but recently all I seem to be subbing is /DNC, but if im not solo i'm with my abyssea friends in a 4man setup. For me now, having the occx2 would be most beneficial, many times more than DA one. Also, inside abyssea the dmg difference in katana's for ws is minimal due to the huge boosts to wsc we get.

Its still very close, but then I start thinking post abyssea, and if /dnc stays my main then occ2x would be the better choice. Also, I'm using 2x Sekka's atm so to me its a wash, but me personally i'd go for the occ2x. It would definately serve its utility, but the main magian katana's imo are still emph/woe/sekka. Blade Hi still does substantially more dmg than jin outside abyssea aslong as the mainhand doesnt miss.

Maybe get some more opinions before chosing.


I agree with all your points more or less. Can you clarify how much more damage Hi does compared to Jin outside Abyssea? I'm kinda skeptical on that myself. For the most part, very few weapons can come close to the dmg rating of Kannagi. So on that merit alone, I can see Jin losing if the main hand is using a 46dmg weapon compared to a 55dmg. On the other hand, Blade Jin would highly benefit from DA procs. Subbing /war alone makes a huge difference, no zerk/warcry. That same 10% applied to a main hand plus /war sub should easily get 30%+ DA proc.

The other reason why I'm more likely to go with the DA katana is because the Kommone(sp) is an awesome off-hand blade. If I go with the OAT katana, what else could I use in my main hand besides the relic/mythic/empor ?

If Kannagi is so badass outside of Abyssea which I really doubt looking at the mods for it, I might change my mind. I really need more info to make up my mind.
#41 Apr 21 2011 at 2:40 AM Rating: Good
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Kanagi is pretty bad *** outside of abyssea too and s still leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. I can hit Jin's for 800-1.3K norm, my friends hits 1.7K-2.2K Hi's, although as Hi is only a 1Hit ws, if the main hit misses, you'll end up doing just ~300dmg from the off hand hit. That will happen at least 5% of the time. DMG wise though, he just tears through things, especially when he's double damaging his TP hits.

Seriously consider the Eva Sekka, its a very very easy katana to make, and is very effective. You can work on 2 at the same time by crossing certain trials. They really are great weapons. You also have Twighlight Knife for offhand, which drops fairly frequently from Shinryu and easily imo easily beats out Kanome due to the incresaed tp gain and Quad attack.

Even the stage your at now (and I know how long it takes killing all those mobs), but you will easily make 2x Sekka+2's and a grab a Tknife quicker than finishing the final 5 trials you need for the DA weapon. Just throwing it out there neway.
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#42 Apr 21 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
I did see a nin Dual Wielding Kanagi/Tobi+2 - now that'd be nice! Presumably you could dual-wield Kannagi+2/Kannagi+1? I'm yet to see that though, wonder if the aftermath occ double dmg stacks lol. I've seen a lvl90 Kikoku / Kannagi+1 too.
It's not possible to duel wield Kannagi (90) and Kannagi (85) or even Kannagi (80) because they all have the exact same name and are Rare/Ex; it is possible to do Kannagi/Tobi +2 or even Tobi +2/Tobi +1 I believe though.

I'm about 26/50 for Kannagi (85), I also have Kikoku (90) which will go offhand once I finish Kannagi (85) lol; but to your other question offhand weapons like Kannagi and Kikoku (or any onehanded relic/mythic/emp or weapon with weaponskill on it) lose their weaponskill and aftermath when offhanded, Kikoku even loses it's attack and additional effect of paralysis as well as the hidden damage modifier. Granted Blade: Metsu sucks inside Abyssea and the aftermath is a joke now with all the subtle blow gear available, paralysis is ok but can just cast the ninjutsu and the 3x damage modifier is barely noticable anyway at around 5% (which aftermath of ocassionally deals double damage around 30-40% destroys that anyway) so the only thing of worth you lose is the attack and slightly lower base DMG :p

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 10:18am by KelgarVlondett
#43 Apr 26 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Just finished my Kannagi yesterday (well 85 version, 5/75 on 90 lol) and Blade: Hi just simply put... rocks!

One thing I noticed if you offhand it you still get attributes (+ AGI), off course you don't get Weaponskill or the Aftermath but I knew that already but was surprised you got the agility when Kikoku loses Attack offhand :\

I need to play around with it more, most my testing has been /DNC soloing stuff so far; but owning both Kikoku (90) and Kannagi (85) I can say pretty much that Empyrean destroys Relic by a large margin... granted with work my schedule playtime can be somewhat limited so it took me longer than some people but roughly 18 monthes of 4 Dynamis runs a week (2 characters) to do Kikoku (75) and then another 4-6 monthes of mind numbingly boring trials (this was before they reduced them ><); versus 5-6 weeks of working on Kannagi (85) from beginning to now... that's really kind of sad when you think about it lol

I just wish SE would at least give the + attack and paralyze offhand like it used to ;_;


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