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#1 Sep 03 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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- Elemental ninjutsu will receive a damage increase.




So it seems a big part of ninja's future is in spells. Between elemental ninja spells getting a boost in damage and ninjas gaining two more unique spells this update, it seems that the future may very well hold a prominent place for spells when using nin.


Part of me thinks its a good thing. There aren't many ninjas who even have their ninjutsu skill merited, let alone the laughable T1 and 2 merits. Perhaps this could bring about more specialization. Any time I'm in a highly buffed situation with bard rotations (ein, woe, etc) I realize how much of a pipe dream it is to have ninja competing with 2h dd so this might be the inevitable direction we needed to go.


Of course there are problems. For one, how to manage using katanas while using ninja nukes/enfeebles. A large part of macc is found in ele staves or magian staves for other magic users, but using ele staves on ninja means no more weapon skills ever. Perhaps the MACC or MAB katanas are a possibility, but that would mean forsaking things like Enchu which doesn't sit too well with me personally.

Also, if they make the damage balanced at 85 with the buff its just going to suck again at 99 the way spells were awesome 40-50 but are terrible now. And if they make them where they are viable at 99 they will be out of this world broken at 85. The whole thing screams future adjustment.

But I guess there is more hope today than there was yesterday and that's something.
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#2 Sep 03 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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I have to wonder if your Ninjutsu Effect merits will get a boost too. Would be very interested in seeing how a merited Hyoton: San (is it too early to say :Yon is coming?) stacks up against Blizzard. If it does pretty respectable damage, has a quick cast time, and you have endless MP in the form of tool-based nukes, NIN could be pretty solid nuking / magic bursting support in low-downtime situations.

Enchanted, ninjutsu/MAB boosting katana and gear sounds realistic in the near future if things keep going this way. We'll see!
#3 Sep 03 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Problem is NIN needs MAB first and foremost, then some way to enhance M.Acc / Direct Boost damage. Possible some NIN only version of the elemental stave's that can be equipped. I still hope they give you guys another tier of DW and higher DPS Katana's to go with them.
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Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#4 Sep 03 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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So, possibility of NIN/BLM and NIN/RDM high level?
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#5 Sep 03 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Problem is NIN needs MAB first and foremost, then some way to enhance M.Acc / Direct Boost damage. Possible some NIN only version of the elemental stave's that can be equipped. I still hope they give you guys another tier of DW and higher DPS Katana's to go with them.


Ninjutsu skill items help M.Acc. More enhances ninjutsu damage items like Koga head would help too. Perhaps the Empyrean Armor sets will provide some options here.

And yeah, there's /RDM. I'm thinking it's time for me to get that sub up to 49. Fast Cast II, Dispel is nice if we're pushed into a more support role, refresh keeps our MP up, 96NIN/48RDM Haste...
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#6 Sep 04 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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2,890 posts
Yeah but the NQ stave's are +20 M.acc and +10% damage. HQ's are +30 M.acc and +15% damage. There pretty bad a$$ for any sort of magic damage.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#7 Sep 04 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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well... There's Sekka x2 for +24 M.Acc (and +90mp lol) and you could probably make up and exceed the +15% damage from melee/WSs....

And of course... the nature of the elemental wheel already lowering enemy resistance for the next element by -30....

Edited, Sep 4th 2010 1:07pm by DreamerGuy
#8 Sep 04 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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130 posts
I hope this boost or change to elemental ninjutsu will result in at least a 10% damage increase. I'm looking forward to it though, as i've always owned a set of Int/mab gear for ninja :)
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#9 Sep 04 2010 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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894 posts
Maxtokens wrote:
I hope this boost or change to elemental ninjutsu will result in at least a 10% damage increase. I'm looking forward to it though, as i've always owned a set of Int/mab gear for ninja :)

Me too, i hope they make INT matters more than 1~2DMG per INT aswell as boost the base DMG to respectable levels.
~250DMG Ni without an elemental staff is going to own, we'll be able to tank by just spaming our spells not our sub's spells. woot
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DRG75 | BST75 | RNG75 | THF75 | PUP75 | NIN75/WS | BLM75
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Sequdaz @Ragnarok
#10 Sep 04 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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Sequ wrote:
Maxtokens wrote:
I hope this boost or change to elemental ninjutsu will result in at least a 10% damage increase. I'm looking forward to it though, as i've always owned a set of Int/mab gear for ninja :)

Me too, i hope they make INT matters more than 1~2DMG per INT aswell as boost the base DMG to respectable levels.
~250DMG Ni without an elemental staff is going to own, we'll be able to tank by just spaming our spells not our sub's spells. woot
...That's actually a really good way of looking at the damage adjustment. I wasn't too impressed with the update notes until I read your post.

If I understand right, using Kanican's enmity table and assuming no enmity modifying equipment, doing even 150 damage against a level 90 target would be approximately 200 CE (which is what we're lacking more than VE). Assuming no resists (for the sake of this example), that's about 1200 CE in 35-40~ seconds to spam the entire wheel, then it's back up again. Paladin can get about 980~ CE from a 750 Atonement against the same target, not to mention the CE gain from melee hits (granted, I have no idea how hard paladins would hit against a level 90 target), not counting hate gained from cures.

I have honestly never bothered with an INT/Ninjutsu setup (I just didn't use ninja enough to justify the inventory), so I have no idea how much they do now or how bad resist rates are. Can someone chime in on this?
#11 Sep 05 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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1,996 posts
I just hope ninja can find a place in the game similar to say scholar. One where we can choose to be a nuker or a melee or a tank and do reasonably well doing just that one thing for that fight. Because its going to be a major pain if we are expected to do more than one thing at once. Being a half-time nuker/half-time melee will cripple our weapon choice. Either melee or nuking will always be done with a weapon that is not optimal. Also, our subjob will always be less than optimal for half of these duties.


However, if they make a nuking ninja viable on its own we will have something. Being able to nin/rdm when you have 3 lacovie sets would be great. Being able to nin/war when your group needs 9 pair of poise shoes would be great. But having to mix nukes in with melee would mean one of them would be severely hurt by weapon and subjob selection.


If ninja could sub rdm and be adequate as a back line job (especially if the new spells are some kind of useful enfeeble) and if they got a respectable weapon skill for melee time I'd be more than happy even if I never ever was able to beat a greatly equipped 2h in a parse.
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#12 Sep 08 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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just look at the gear and lolupdates for ninja released in the past year or so. it's clear that SE is slowly pushing NIN towards nuking/enfeebling as an option for players. Much like they did with MNK and Footwork.

Someone should do some extensive theorycrafting once the potency of this elemental ninjutsu dmg update is tested. If 14 doesnt swallow my soul, i may just try to get my nin/rdm up to speed with as much INT/macc etc. gear as i can. just for something to do. like MNK and Footwork. lol.
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#13 Sep 08 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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af3+2 head:
Dex 10
Haste 6%
'enhances Dual Wield'
augments innin
set: augments dual wield


legs:
acc 8
katana skill: 5
haste 7%
augments yonin


feet:
STR 5
Dex 5
Haste 4%
enhances tactical parry
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#14 Sep 08 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Augments dual wield? I'm intrigued by this.
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#15 Sep 08 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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The feet also have a "Enhances Utsusemi" effect.
#16 Sep 08 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
Augments Dual Wield I think could be one of the following:
-Tri-Wield? (lol)
-Auto-double attack on each swing?
-Replaces all dual wield's "Delay Reductions" with a special Attack Speed reduction thus you swing as fast as you used to but gain TP equal to the base delay of your equipped weapons?
-Adds an extra hit to weapon skills so you gain TP equal to 3 normal hits instead of just 2 with dual wield+1 for additional hits?
-Gain full TP return on every single hit in WS like pre-Penta Thrust nerf?
-Dual Wield 2h weapons?(lol)

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 2:45pm by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus
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DRG75/RDM75/PLD75


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high
up in the sky
to the still land.
Veiling the moon with the light of eternity
it brings another promise to mother Earth
with a bounty and mercy.
#17 Sep 08 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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TheHolyDragoonSeraphus wrote:
Augments Dual Wield I think could be one of the following:
-Tri-Wield? (lol)
-Auto-double attack on each swing?
-Replaces all dual wield's "Delay Reductions" with a special Attack Speed reduction thus you swing as fast as you used to but gain TP equal to the base delay of your equipped weapons?
-Adds an extra hit to weapon skills so you gain TP equal to 3 normal hits instead of just 2 with dual wield+1 for additional hits?
-Gain full TP return on every single hit in WS like pre-Penta Thrust nerf?
-Dual Wield 2h weapons?(lol)

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 2:45pm by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus


you are a dumbass.

it's probably 5% delay reduction.
#18 Sep 08 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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619 posts
Quote:
af3+2 head:
Dex 10
Haste 6%
'enhances Dual Wield'
augments innin
set: augments dual wield


legs:
acc 8
katana skill: 5
haste 7%
augments yonin


feet:
STR 5
Dex 5
Haste 4%
enhances tactical parry


Almost capped haste with dusk and swift. Capped with Goading. With V belt or Bullwhip, change out the hands for acc/atk depending on the mob. And there's still hands and body left. Or use Usu feet, Bullwhip, above two, and dusk for capped haste.

Capped haste and 3 enhance dual wield equipped? No INT or mab? I love you SE.

F*cking win.



Edited, Sep 8th 2010 5:21pm by Palides
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#19 Sep 08 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it just me or did they actually decrease the damage on elemental ninjutsu...?

Last night I went out and did a few nukes on Sauromugue Skinks outside Jeuno; was getting 201 dmg per nuke. Then to day when I get on I'm getting 189 dmg per nuke. Same gear/subjob as last night, no changes at all.

#20 Sep 08 2010 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Ni seems to have dropped in DMG, SAN increased anyone tested to see if ninjutsu skill+ affects damage now?
#21 Sep 08 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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894 posts
302DMG Hyoton: San vs a rabbit at Cape terrigan, HQ ice staff and INT+43/MAB+13, it would deal ~362DMG if i had Hyoton: San fully merited, ~472DMG if i used innin and was behind the mob. now if i go that far to add a MAB+30 atma it would deal ~612DMG. pretty amazing if :San wasn't so slow to cast /sigh.

Melee is the way to go, this change is welcomed for nuke-kiting/pinning solo NIN.

Oh why i never thought of this, physical resistant NMs do exist. :o
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Ranger Slugwinder
Leathercraft99
DRG75 | BST75 | RNG75 | THF75 | PUP75 | NIN75/WS | BLM75
{SCH} {Can i have it?}
Sequdaz @Ragnarok
#22 Sep 09 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
you are a dumbass.

it's probably 5% delay reduction.




AF3+2 head:
Dex+10 Haste 6%
'Enhance Dual Wield'
'Augments Innin'
Set: 'Augments Dual Wield'

Enhance =/= Augments

'Enhance' =Increases the strength or duration of the effect, reduces it's negative effects or reduces recast.
Augments= adds a new trait or property to the effect.

Example:
1) 'EnhanceCover' = Increased Duration
2) 'AugmentsCover' = Adds a 'Convert damage taken into MP' effect to Cover.

So 'Enhance Dual Wield" = Probably 5% reduction, but 'Augments Dual Wield' must adds another trait to dual wield that dual wield previously did not have.

Another example:

'Enhance Jump effects'= Increases Jump damage
'Augments Jump' effects= Adds a 'critical hit +100%' effect to Jumps.

I'm feeling generous so here's a third example.

''Enhance Reward' = Increased HP restored to pet when using reward depending on pet food.

'Augments Reward' = Adds a 'remove status ailment' effect to Reward.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:06am by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:07am by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:08am by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus
____________________________
DRG75/RDM75/PLD75


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high
up in the sky
to the still land.
Veiling the moon with the light of eternity
it brings another promise to mother Earth
with a bounty and mercy.
#23 Sep 09 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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324 posts
My guess would be augments possibly allows Ninja to offhand all weapons with no penalties, though this would really only apply to offhanding weapons like relic/mythic/emp so if it is while somewhat nice isn't very useful to 99% of Ninjas.

Only other thing I could think of would be something to do with TP adjustment... should be interesting to see what it does though.
#24 Sep 19 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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846 posts
I was thinking "occasionally deals doubles damage"
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