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Enemy Ranged Attack vs. Ninja ShadowsFollow

#1 Jun 24 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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If I remember correctly, before the update, any ranged attack would cause the loss of a shadow, regardless of what level the mob was. Last night in Sacarium, fighting fomor rangers, I evaded many ranged attacks with shadows up. Is it possible that SE ninja fixed ninja shadows (hehe)?

1. Am I remembering correctly? Did ranged attacks always take a shadow prior to the update?

2. If the answer to 1. is "yes" then has anyone else noticed this or done any testing?
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#2 Jun 24 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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drunktexan wrote:

1. Am I remembering correctly? Did ranged attacks always take a shadow prior to the update?

2. If the answer to 1. is "yes" then has anyone else noticed this or done any testing?


1. Yes

2. Well, testing when i get home. Sounds like good news.
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#3 Jun 24 2010 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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If I remember correctly there was always something weird with the CoP fomors where they wouldn't always take shadows with ranged attacks.
#4 Jun 25 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nakahito wrote:
If I remember correctly there was always something weird with the CoP fomors where they wouldn't always take shadows with ranged attacks.


ack, i think you're right. either way, it's like a 5min test. just find lowby goblin ranger, voke it (or steal from it, etc), and see if you can evade his shots.
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#5 Jun 25 2010 at 3:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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The reason for this is because most enemy ranged attacks are not standard ranged attacks. In reality, they are really a JA/WS called Ranged Attack. This is the kind that you would see Goblin RNGs use.

Like JA/WS, they work instantly. Even before you see their animations complete, the attack has already been performed and damaged you (unless it missed). Additionally, just like any other physical TP attacks, if you have shadows up, these will ALWAYS be absorbed by your shadows and will never miss.

The ranged attacks used by fomors are actually standard ranged attacks (they are not called Ranged Attack). As such, they only fire and hit/damage when their animation is completed up to the "firing" point, instead of hitting/damaging immediately as the animation begins. Additionally, just like when using our own ranged attacks against enemy mobs with shadows, they CAN still miss and leave shadows intact.
#6 Jun 25 2010 at 3:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
The reason for this is because most enemy ranged attacks are not standard ranged attacks. In reality, they are really a JA/WS called Ranged Attack. This is the kind that you would see Goblin RNGs use.

Like JA/WS, they work instantly. Even before you see their animations complete, the attack has already been performed and damaged you (unless it missed). Additionally, just like any other physical TP attacks, if you have shadows up, these will ALWAYS be absorbed by your shadows and will never miss.

The ranged attacks used by fomors are actually standard ranged attacks (they are not called Ranged Attack). As such, they only fire and hit/damage when their animation is completed up to the "firing" point, instead of hitting/damaging immediately as the animation begins. Additionally, just like when using our own ranged attacks against enemy mobs with shadows, they CAN still miss and leave shadows intact.


physical TP attacks... ??? your explanation makes sense up until you seem to imply that mob WS always take shadows instead of being possible to dodge. that's never been the case... what do you mean "physical TP attacks"?
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#7 Jun 25 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
physical TP attacks... ??? your explanation makes sense up until you seem to imply that mob WS always take shadows instead of being possible to dodge. that's never been the case... what do you mean "physical TP attacks"?


Uhh, ya it is. If you have 3+ shadows up and you get hit by Goblin Rush (a physical TP attack), it *will* eat 3 shadows guaranteed. Doesn't matter how weak the goblin is, or how much of an evasion god you are. The same thing applies for mobs that use "Ranged Attack". The game treats it as a JA/WS, and therefore if you have a shadow up, it will always kick in and absorb the attack; you will not be able to actually evade it.

I think confusion sets in in cases where you have fewer remaining shadows than 3; in such an event Goblin Rush will still eat up those remaining shadows, but it is still possible to naturally evade the rest of the hits that aren't taken by shadows. When this happens, everyone's chat log will display "The Goblin uses Goblin Rush, but misses <player>" without giving any sort of indication that any shadows were consumed (except for the person who casted those shadows; on their log they will also receive a "<player>'s Copy Image effect wears off" message), making it seem like they took no damage from Goblin Rush solely due to their evasion. While they did evade at least one hit, shadows may still have helped absorb some of the other hits.
#8 Jun 25 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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^What he said

If you solo Bluestreak the mechanic is very obvious you can start to recast shadows much earlier because the rangedattack/ja is instant the shadow will be gone a split second before the animation goes off, this makes mobs like that pretty annoying because every now and then they will damage you even if a cast was finished before the RA animation went off.

#9 Jun 25 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
physical TP attacks... ??? your explanation makes sense up until you seem to imply that mob WS always take shadows instead of being possible to dodge. that's never been the case... what do you mean "physical TP attacks"?


Uhh, ya it is. If you have 3+ shadows up and you get hit by Goblin Rush (a physical TP attack), it *will* eat 3 shadows guaranteed. Doesn't matter how weak the goblin is, or how much of an evasion god you are. The same thing applies for mobs that use "Ranged Attack". The game treats it as a JA/WS, and therefore if you have a shadow up, it will always kick in and absorb the attack; you will not be able to actually evade it.

I think confusion sets in in cases where you have fewer remaining shadows than 3; in such an event Goblin Rush will still eat up those remaining shadows, but it is still possible to naturally evade the rest of the hits that aren't taken by shadows. When this happens, everyone's chat log will display "The Goblin uses Goblin Rush, but misses <player>" without giving any sort of indication that any shadows were consumed (except for the person who casted those shadows; on their log they will also receive a "<player>'s Copy Image effect wears off" message), making it seem like they took no damage from Goblin Rush solely due to their evasion. While they did evade at least one hit, shadows may still have helped absorb some of the other hits.


huh. i could have sworn i'd tanked things and had shadows after multihit mob WS, but i must have been mistaken. wiki has it the same way you describe, and--not to inflate wiki's credibility--i don't think people would let something that would be such common knowledge especially to NINs stay up if false. (shrug)

in any case, yeah, this about answers OP's question.
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#10 Jun 25 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Well, you could still have one shadow left after Goblin Rush if you're NIN main and just used Ni. >_>

Better (and more commonly encountered) example would be a colibri's Pecking Flurry; this is a 4-hitter so even a NIN's Utsu Ni will not remain up after being hit by it.
#11 Jun 25 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, did some testing on goblin ambushers in the dunes... Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up.
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#12 Jun 25 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Would have been so nice. Ranger mobs irritate me to no end as NIN and THF. The game mocks you for making a decked out evasion build.
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