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What Yonin/Innin should have beenFollow

#1 Jun 07 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I was in a EXP party the other day and was asked to DD on my NIN (kinda weird but not complaining, I got quite a powerful NIN dd build if I can focus on DDing) and was using one of the two abilities to increase my accuracy and decrease my enmity.

A thought struck, I think Yonin/Innin should have been one class ability, that decreases your accuracy by 30, raises your enmity by a large amount, reduces the amount of others enmity, and give them a accuracy bonus proportionate to the amount of accuracy lost by the NIN divided along the members. Some may be thinking, if you give ACC to the DD then they're going to do more damage, that's why NIN get a huge enmity boost. I think taking ACC away from NIN is stupid in the first place for using that ability, may aswell put it into the party mates for faster kills.
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#2 Jun 07 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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What they should have been is on the same 1 minute reuse time like Hasso/Seigan, with no positioning requirements.
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#3 Jun 07 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I figure the timer issue is to prevent nins from abusing their enimty levels.

I agree there shouldnt be any posistioning requirements tho
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#4 Jun 08 2010 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Isiolia wrote:
What they should have been is on the same 1 minute reuse time like Hasso/Seigan, with no positioning requirements.


This, and they should only work with one handed weapons.

Edited, Jun 8th 2010 9:17am by drunktexan
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#5 Jun 08 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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drunktexan wrote:
This, and they should only work with one handed weapons.

Are there any good reasons why you want to lose the accuracy and crit bonus on your ranged attacks, hand to hand and great katana? Or are you just suggesting Yonin/Innin should be dual-wield's equivalent of Hasso/Seigan?

I'm pretty happy that I can use a GK with Innin and skill up that way.

I must be the only ninja actually happy about Yonin and Innin. I miss them so much when I sync pre 40.
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#6 Jun 08 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Lianda wrote:
Or are you just suggesting Yonin/Innin should be dual-wield's equivalent of Hasso/Seigan?


Yeah this was my thinking. Don't get me wrong, I like Yonin/Innin, they just get used by me on a very limited basis. Contrast that with when I am WAR/SAM... Either Hasso or Seigan is up all the time.
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#7 Jun 08 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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I agree should be more like Hasso/Seigan; for one thing please make them seperate recast timers so you can switch between either instead of having to cancel and wait 5 min. for it to come back up again... nothing like pullng hate with Innin shortly after using it.

What it really should be is a 1 min. recast on seperate timers, get rid of the directional crap please because trying to position yourself on a mob that turns more than a freak'n record is not fun... not to mention it decays over time to boot which Hasso/Seigan does not; and anyone saying that be overpowered it's really not any more so than Hasso/Seigan. Also since it's going to be used /NIN in the upcoming future (why not, everything else good we have peolpe can just sub...), they should really nerf if /NIN like they did Hasso/Seigan and also only make it work with one handed weapons since Hasso/Seigan only work with two handed weapons I think that is fair enough.
#8 Jun 08 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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KelgarVlondett wrote:
Also since it's going to be used /NIN in the upcoming future (why not, everything else good we have peolpe can just sub...)

During interviews, Square explicitly said that Afflatus Solace/Misery and Yonin/Innin would not be usable from subjobs. I hope they went back on that decision, and we'll see soon (TM)...

Mnk/Nin would finally had gotten something decent other than shadows out of /nin if they did that. Sorry monks, better luck next time, I suppose?
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#9 Jun 08 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Totally agree about the separate timers and removing the directional BS, at least for Innin.

Personally would be content if they just made it a ninja version of hasso/seigan without decay. SE probably added the decay factor to make the abilities slightly more unique, except in a game this heavily influenced on gear swapping it's stupid.

Honestly haven't experimented enough with them, but if innin's accuracy/critical bonus decreases over time it just makes it that much more worthless. For a game where people have multiple accuracy sets for focus/aggressor/diabolic eye/etc, a non-consistent accuracy bonus isn't helpful. Hopefully innin's accuracy bonus is static, though I doubt it.

Supposedly there was an interview where they said WHM and NIN stances would be trademark, which is pretty silly. WHM's afflatus solace could just be 1/8 stoneskin and not be overpowering, plus misery isn't useful for non-WHMs since esuna/sacrifice etc are all 50+ spells. And considering how little use innin/yonin get from NINs it is doubtful it would make much of a difference if it could be subbed.

It would be nice to get more than just shadows (& DW for THF/BLU/DNC/BST) out of /NIN. A small enmity decrease with some accuracy and critical hits would be awesome for THF, BLU, PUP, MNK, DNC and BST. Really the only issue that I could see being heavily exploited is PLDs using yonin, but you could just nerf the enmity bonuses/( and/or minuses) and have everyone happy.

Two hander's get 10 hasso accuracy on top of their ~20 dex acc bonus, having a subbable ability that could give you a constant 10-30 accuracy with a moderate critical hit bonus wouldn't be overpowering in the least.
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#10 Jun 08 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Requim wrote:
misery isn't useful for non-WHMs since esuna/sacrifice etc are all 50+ spells

Cura is WHM40, and with Misery is a hate-free cure with pretty beefy amount of HP (175 hp x 6 targets) for 30 mp. It rivals with healing breath in efficiency, and that's saying a lot.

That spell alone makes Misery WHM exclusive a good thing for balance.
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#11 Jun 08 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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I use my NIN for Limbus mostly. I go /WAR for first voke on farm runs and /DRK for Omega/Ultima runs. Its really easy to cap accuracy in Limbus, so I ride Yonin almost full time. I pop it off for mobs which have particularly high evasion, like some of the birds in Apollyon or Carby in one of the Central Temenos's. I really like both abilities. They don't detract from anything NIN could do before, and add situational utility. My only wish for it would be to be on shorter timers so I can switch between modes, or reapply in the event I need to click Yonin off for a mob.
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#12 Jun 09 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Cura is WHM40, and with Misery is a hate-free cure with pretty beefy amount of HP (175 hp x 6 targets) for 30 mp. It rivals with healing breath in efficiency, and that's saying a lot.

That spell alone makes Misery WHM exclusive a good thing for balance.


While it can definitely be an awesome anti-aoe spell, it's not like you can willy nilly cast it. You need to be hit by a strong aoe to get that potency and it inhibits you from making use of solace's stoneskin effects. Plus if they did introduce it, it would likely be limited to your SJ level and make it ~half as potent (since cura is affected by WHM's level).

The ability to cast 25% or weaker stoneskinning cures and a half potent cura aren't even in the same league as healing breath's efficiency.

Similarly, innin/yonin are interesting stances that could have turned out much better if you could easily swap between the two, they didn't decay, and they didn't have directional conditions. Again it goes back to the fact that if you can't rely on a consistent buff then you can't macro gear changes for it and subsequently can't make full use of it. While it is a buff, it's inconsistent. Hell, even thief is as minimally location/direction based as you can get and it still misses a good portion of the time.

If they make it harder to successfully DD on a job, you will encounter resistance for having that job DD.
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