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NIN/DNC duo partner...your choice?Follow

#1 Jul 06 2009 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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have a friend with a decked out NIN/DNC, and we're kinda tired of the game, looking to just start duo'ing things and push the limits of our playing. if you could pick a duo partner job what would it be?

he says i should do RDM/NIN, i see his point but at the same time i feel it's a little redundant to NIN/DNC; enfeeble, gravity, absorb/dodge dmg, heal.
#2 Jul 06 2009 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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What jobs/subs do you have might help and what you are trying to duo. Both of those can change the answer.
#3 Jul 06 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Any support job really, with appropriate subs for the occasion. Just tailor your needs to fit the situation, whether that be more DD or more support.

Without any specific targets, yeah, a bit hard to be more specific.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 10:39pm by gaira
#4 Jul 06 2009 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
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oh geez, don't have any real targets in mind of the top of my head. i dunno Charby? Simmy? KA? Sky pop NM's? maybe low man some ZNM's? Hagun ENM, mission NM's....i know most of these can be solo'd, but its usually safer with a partner.

any suggestions?

as for my jobs, all subs, 75brd,sam,drg,blu,rng,mnk ....working on getting rdm/dnc to 75 atm. guess i'm just curious as to if there's just one job that benefits it most of the time. i know things are situational, i'm tired of lvl'ing jobs though, and would just like to lvl one last job if i have too, or retire exp'ing and actually have some fun.

#5 Jul 07 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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Best duo partner I've found is Brd/Whm.
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#6 Jul 07 2009 at 5:07 AM Rating: Good
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For Nin/Dnc, I'd say Rdm/Brd would be a great duo partner. Don't look at this unconventional sub and write it off just yet. We all know that brd songs are terribly gimped when subbed, but you can take advantage of melody earrings (+1) for 10-12 evasion skill in the 2 earring slots. Personally, I'd have the Rdm sing march to activate them. It'll be gimped, but even subbed, it's still 4% haste. So you effectively get 10-12 evasion skill, and 4% haste from his /brd. Not too bad IMO. The Rdm can also get 1 extra mp/tick.

Since you said you're trying to test your limits, I think this combo can push it pretty far. Just remember, this is a more of a defensive duo made for longevity, not a speed killing duo for mass slaughtering VT and under.

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#7 Jul 07 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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I would take a WHM personally. WHM/SCH or WHM/NIN, it doesn't matter. Nothing emboldens my duoing prowess like RR3 and R3 does.
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#9 Jul 07 2009 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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My 1st choice would be a rdm/nin or /whm without a doubt. I have however been duoing with a dnc/nin lately and its been alot of fun, although its a little harder to go after the "big game" with that combo as you lack the enfeebling prowess rdm provides.

Edit: And Haste, guess I thought that went without saying >.>

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 6:46pm by petersghost
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#10 Jul 07 2009 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Haste.


Ahem.


I mean, likely a whm, rdm or brd...
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#11 Jul 07 2009 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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For NMs: i would have to say brd or rdm. brd will buff you better but rdm can save your ass in a pinch. depends which NM basically.

For exp (at 75): drg, plain and simple. you wont get haste, you wont get buffed, but you will ultimately kill faster than with any other duo partner. in this situation you are more support for the drg than the drg is for you.

For exp (trip to 75): blu, rdm, or bst. with blu you will kill faster and keep chains a little easier. they can enfeeble pretty well, STUN, can help cure in 'oh sh*t' situations, and put out great dmg. rdm can buff you, do moderate dmg, and never really have to rest. bst is great to duo with if you can manage your hate.
#12 Jul 07 2009 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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i assumed it would be rdm or brd with maybe dnc following closely. just wasn't sure if any other combinations like pld/nin or sch had some potential. i've gone as drg/blu before to duo some IT ToA mobs, and the short story was that between myself and the wyvern, we just fed too much tp into the mix.

thanbks for the advice though, looks like i'll finish rdm.
#14 Jul 08 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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rdmceypher wrote:
Quote:
For NMs: i would have to say brd or rdm. brd will buff you better but rdm can save your ass in a pinch. depends which NM basically.


Dia2/3, haste, and gravity are better than any combination of buffs a BRD can give you for increasing DD ability. In a trio, however, BRD and RDM work beautifully together and would really increase efficiency, but in a duo RDM will almost always win because BRD really needs a full party to operate at 100% effectiveness, whereas a RDM operates more effectively the less people they have to worry about.
Except duoing is less about killing fast and more about surviving. In this respect a brd supplements a nin/dnc more-so than a rdm will. At best a Rdm brings to the table haste. The most important enfeebles, i.e. blind, and slow, a Nin can do himself. Dia is nice but not a "need". Further, gravity has never been a staple of Nin solo/duoing. For Rdm it works great but for Nin whose primary damage comes from katanas it is counter productive.

Looking at Brd though a Ninja is able to not only use the songs Brd can give he can also enhance them through gear. "Usually" in a solo/duo situation a Ninja is going to be relying on evasion to mitigate a large portion of damage. In this train of thought it is important to remember that Brd can give two exceedingly more potent than /brd evasion songs to a Ninja. Further a Bard can Slow a Mob down with a song that can be planted on a enemy at the same time as Slow the spell (this is an important distinction). Also there is the matter of things like Melody earrings to consider that are opened up in the gear department to help push the evasion element further.

On top of all this there is the base idea of hate, a Brd with his limited MP pool is likely not going to ever produce as much hate as a rdm from cures. This in and of itself will help insure that hate stays planted firmly on the Nin, making the fight a more fluid, and less chaotic event. Also to consider is the fact that if you have a Rdm meleeing and healing, and enfeebling there is going to be times when he pulls hate from the Nin/Dnc. I don't know how many Nin/Dnc's you've duo'd with in full evasion gear but their hate line is very low, almost non-existent. Hate jumping around in a high danger duo situation can be the worst thing to happen and ultimately can be the difference between a successful attempt and failure.

As I said, in my experience brd/whm is hands down the best duo partner going right now for a Nin. True, Rdm is a close second as it does bring some unique things to the table, but in the presence of eledgy and evasion songs and the redundancy of slow and blind between Nin and Rdm line of spells I don't see the absence of haste as being that big of a hurdle.
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#16 Jul 08 2009 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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So are yo suggesting a BRD/WHM has more survivablilty that a RDM/NIN? Because that is not even clsoe to being correct. Slow2 is much more powerful than slow from a NIN, and on things that you would generally duo, NIN is going to have a dificult time landing any enfeebles.


its not that slow2 is better than a nin's slow, its that elegy is 50% slow and can stack with hojo for a nice 75% slow. even if the nin cant land hojo, the elegy would still be more than slow2.

the most important thing about duoing an NM with a nin is to make sure the nin has shadows. no combination of buffs/debuffs from a rdm would give a nin enough room to breath as elegy stacked with marchx2 or mambox2. nin enfeebles on top of the buffs are just icing on the cake.

50% slow debuff + 20% haste buff > 37% slow + 15% haste + blind2

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 12:32pm by iknoweverything
#18 Jul 08 2009 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Personal preference, I'd want a bard. Rdm are nice, but when you stack all those debuffs along with the damage they will pull hate over the nin/dnc.

BRD/WHM (dia 2, mambo, minuet, paeon, march, elegy, requiem)
RDM/NIN (dia 3, gravity, paralyze, haste, blind, melee damage + enspell, shadows, poison II)

NIN/DNC (shadows, paralyze, blind, slow, poison, def down, evasion down, endrain)


Coming from solo'ing a couple jobs to 75, I would go for damage negation vs increased damage. The goal is to get no one to die and the bard has a better shot at it. The rdm might be able to finish off the mob if the nin dies, but the nin stands a higher chance at survival with a brd for most mob types.

Now the times when I'd choose a RDM over a BRD are when I need a silence. At that point RDM would become a huge asset over BRD. The difference is marginal in all other situations with BRD edging out over a RDM on most mobs.

On the note of poisons and other DoTs like that, I would probably slap anyone who casts them while in duo with me... Especially when the job has a sleep spell. I want that emergency sleep/lullaby if the mob can be slept!
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#20 Jul 08 2009 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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Look I'm all for job pride but it's really starting to seem like you're arguing less about what's a better duo partner for Nin and more a better soloer. The reason, as mentioned previously, why Brd is a better duo partner for Nin is that itcompliments the thing Nin is good at when soloing; damage mitigation. If a nin didn't need all these other things, eledgy and evasion songs from the Brd, he'd just solo the mob...there'd be no reason for the Rdm OR the Brd to be there if we're talking about more damage. You'd just have to prepare for a longer solo...

Think about it man, the fight would be abit longer but the things you are saying makes Rdm "win" as a duo partner doesn't do anything more than shorten the length of the fight, it doesn't increase the survivability of the Nin. At most it introduces to the equation a pseudo-Nin. In high danger Duo's I've never looked back and thought "man, haste would have made me win". No, you approach a duo like you do a high danger solo; whore evasion to the point of ridiculousness and hope for the best. The whole reason I even consider a duo partner is to make what I do, do better, Brd does that, Rdm doesn't. You'd be surprised at what Nin can land enfeebles on by the way.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 6:28pm by Bauran
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#21 Jul 08 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
Coming from solo'ing a couple jobs to 75, I would go for damage negation vs increased damage. The goal is to get no one to die and the bard has a better shot at it. The rdm might be able to finish off the mob if the nin dies, but the nin stands a higher chance at survival with a brd for most mob types.


Quote:
I really do not understand the logic behind this. So the mob is slowed a little more, but with a RDM you get both haste and reduced mob acc, and much, much more, with BRD you have only two buffs, two overrated buffs at that.


To explain my logic: If the mob is even slower that means there's more time between attack rounds for the nin to recast shadows. It also means there will be less attacks in the time that the recast counts down. This lets the shadows stay up longer. Couple that with the evasion that a BRD can give and you have a solid duo going. More on evasion in a second...

The BRD can cast resist element spells and songs where the RDM cannot without going /whm. The Bar spells they do have are single target for themselves. You might be thinking LOL-Bar spells. More times than not, they have helped me out of bad situations.

The big question for me at the moment is: Can the RDM give more evasion than the BRD?(RDM Blind vs NIN Blind + Mambo x2 + song gear) The BRD has two huge evasion songs, and things like melody earrings and the like help the ninja achieve a huge evasion build. With the ninja having Blind, the mob acc and evasion + points go to BRD over RDM.

This all goes back to the basic premise of killing things: "Get mob health to 0 before ours goes to 0." If the mob can't hit you fast and you evade often, you don't get to 0 as fast.

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And what is wrong with a RDM/NIN tanking some??

My answer and reason behind not wanting a support to take aggro is simple. I don't want my support that's making this fight so much easier to be the center of attention and possibly die leaving me out to dry. While it's not likely to happen with a RDM because of recast ect... it's still a distinct possibility more so than with a brd/whm who doesn't melee as hard as a RDM. Blind itself is a nice chunk of enmity. The BRD shouldn't pull hate off the nin/dnc especially if the ninja is using debuffs(blind, paralyze, slow, defense down and evasion down), heals, DD, and faux voke.

Both RDM and BRD are great selections to assist a ninja. I wouldn't look beyond those two jobs for a duo partner honestly. It is just my personal preference and play style that leads me to brd over rdm. I hope that explains where I'm coming from in a duo partner choice.
#23 Jul 12 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Another NIN/DNC as skilled as I. Having the same debuff spells just insures that they'll be on 95% of the time, if one of you die the other can hold while you reraise and wait for weakness. It's just personal preference to me, I've duo'd with BRDs and RDMs tons, but doing it with another NIN/DNC is the most fun to me.
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