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NEW NINJA UPDATEFollow

#1 Jul 03 2009 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/4666/detail.html

Quote:
A host of job adjustments and additions are in the pipes for the upcoming version update, including formidable new abilities for ninjas. Other jobs, too, are scheduled to benefit from myriad adjustments to magic and abilities. In this, the first part in the job adjustment series of articles, we cast the spotlight on ninjas, Vana'diel's agents of stealth and deception.

New Job Abilities

Accomplished in both offense and defense, the art of ninjutsu has over the years proven to be a favorite among adventurers across the land. Now, with the addition of the following two new abilities, ninjas can further enhance either their efficiency in offense or aptitude in defense as befits the situation.

- Yonin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Increases enmity and enhances "ninja tool expertise" effect, but impairs accuracy. Grants a bonus to evasion and critical hit rate when in front of target.

- Innin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Reduces enmity and impairs evasion. Grants a bonus to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking target from behind.

- Yonin
Strengthens one's ability to fend off blows from the enemy.
While in effect, Yonin increases enmity and enhances the effect of "ninja tool expertise" in exchange for reduced accuracy. Further bonuses are granted to evasion and critical hit rate when engaging your target from the front.
The potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.

- Innin
Strengthens one's ability to deal damage to the enemy.
While in effect, Innin lowers enmity in exchange for reduced evasion. Further bonuses are granted to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking your target from behind.
As with Yonin, the potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.

*Notes
The effects of both Yonin and Innin are mutually exclusive. Activating one while the other is in effect will result in the nullification of the one originally in effect.
Yonin and Innin have a shared ability delay. For example, a ninja who uses Yonin must wait for five minutes to elapse before either ability becomes usable again.

In implementing these new abilities, the development team has taken into consideration character positioning during party play and many other factors. To ensure a smooth gaming experience for all, testing and adjustments will be carried out to the fullest extent that time permits.

Mijin Gakure

Up until now, ninjas who were revived after using the job ability "Mijin Gakure" would find themselves alive and standing, but in a weakened state. The July version update will see self-sacrificing ninjas restored to battle-ready fitness with a generous 50% of HP in the tank.

In light of the above changes, the latent effect granted by the ninja mythic weapon will also be adjusted. In place of the effect whereby users of Mijin Gakure are spared being revived in a weakened state, a special new effect will be introduced that will activate after using Mijin Gakure.

Other magic and job abilities scheduled to be on the receiving end of improvements will be introduced in the very near future, so stay tuned!
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#2 Jul 03 2009 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
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Oh.My.Science.

This is the best update ever!

I'm really looking forward to the new JAs. I can see Yonin being especially awesome for NIN/DRK tanking. Maybe we'll finally be able to keep up with PLD's enmity generation.

Also, Innin will be excellent for Merits! Assuming you merit with DDs who can rip hate from your initial 'voke, that is.

edit: I wonder if everyone will stop whining about Mijin now?

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 7:49am by Nilatai
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#3 Jul 03 2009 at 3:54 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
- Yonin
Strengthens one's ability to fend off blows from the enemy.
While in effect, Yonin increases enmity and enhances the effect of "ninja tool expertise" in exchange for reduced accuracy. Further bonuses are granted to evasion and critical hit rate when engaging your target from the front.
The potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.


Possibly good for parties and solo, other than the reduced accuracy. Dunno if everything else will make up for it and make it easier to tank/kill or not.

Quote:
- Innin
Strengthens one's ability to deal damage to the enemy.
While in effect, Innin lowers enmity in exchange for reduced evasion. Further bonuses are granted to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking your target from behind.
As with Yonin, the potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.


Only useful if you're in a party and not tanking. How often does that happen, anyway? Usually if you're trying to improve your damage it's for the sake of being able to hold hate better, but this damage-improving ability only functions when you don't have hate. Seems self-defeating.

Completely useless for solo.

Quote:
Up until now, ninjas who were revived after using the job ability "Mijin Gakure" would find themselves alive and standing, but in a weakened state. The July version update will see self-sacrificing ninjas restored to battle-ready fitness with a generous 50% of HP in the tank.


Changes nothing; Mijin is still only going to be used to avoid imminent EXP loss, deathwarp, or to kill Kirin when he's at 1%. In any of those cases, the fact that you're weakened upon Raise hardly matters. Methinks the only reason they are doing this is because they realized the mythic effect was a joke and they needed to give it something else. In which case, you've still got a lot of other ones to work on, SE.

Overall, not terribly impressed, but in order to know for sure we'd need to get some actual numbers. Despite having the appearance of "stance" JAs, these can't even really be called stances because we will not be able to freely switch between the two (at least every minute at the most like with all other stance JAs) due to the fact they are both tied into the same 5 minute recast.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 7:56am by Fynlar
#4 Jul 03 2009 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

- Yonin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Increases enmity and enhances "ninja tool expertise" effect, but impairs accuracy. Grants a bonus to evasion and critical hit rate when in front of target.


/drk tanking really. But i bet idiots will try to use it to tank in XP, as most dont understand ninja still want the DoT to tank effectively.

Quote:

- Innin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Reduces enmity and impairs evasion. Grants a bonus to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking target from behind.


This one actually sounds good. Its the DD power ninja was missing, if it is made right.

Still skeptical about the ninjutsu damage update. Unless it is major, it will be too weak. If its major, ninja will become a monster on 40 or 50 cap stuff.

Quote:

Mijin Gakure

Up until now, ninjas who were revived after using the job ability "Mijin Gakure" would find themselves alive and standing, but in a weakened state. The July version update will see self-sacrificing ninjas restored to battle-ready fitness with a generous 50% of HP in the tank.

In light of the above changes, the latent effect granted by the ninja mythic weapon will also be adjusted. In place of the effect whereby users of Mijin Gakure are spared being revived in a weakened state, a special new effect will be introduced that will activate after using Mijin Gakure.


About time they did something about that stupid 2hr. As i understand, ninja is the new ninja NM - you dont die when you mijin, so its free ~600 damage. If you still die, its still useless except as warp. If you dont die, its a step towerds making it usable.
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#5 Jul 03 2009 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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As i understand, ninja is the new ninja NM - you dont die when you mijin,


That's not what I got. You'll still need a raise, just that if you get raised your weakness will not be as severe. (This was the effect that NIN's mythic weapon had, except that it prevented weakness from Mijin entirely.)

They probably realized that mythic effect was total crap, and they needed to replace it with something better.
#6 Jul 03 2009 at 4:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm really looking forward to the new JAs. I can see Yonin being especially awesome for NIN/DRK tanking. Maybe we'll finally be able to keep up with PLD's enmity generation.

Nin/drk has never had trouble keeping hate capped.
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#7 Jul 03 2009 at 5:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:


- Yonin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Increases enmity and enhances "ninja tool expertise" effect, but impairs accuracy. Grants a bonus to evasion and critical hit rate when in front of target.


Until we know just how much ACC is lost, this restriction changes nothing. It's obviously going to be good for NIN/dnc soloing. If /dnc's ACC trait can counter balance the -ACC, it's very much worth it. This setup is ideal for /drk tanking and the wheel spam from 40-60. (well 40-50 now thanks to colibri unless you sync)


Edit: You know I just totally had a thought. What's the difference between NIN and PLD tanking for the most part? NIN's DD to hold hate for the most part. But what if the increased enmity is high enough to offset the lack of ACC? Imagine if Blind and Slow tools worked like hate spikes for NIN/war comparable to Flash/cures. Think about it. NIN's can't hold hate anymore with their DD when you have these monster DD's like SAM ripping huge WS numbers at will. It all makes sense to me now. Why else would they give us enhanced "tool expertise"?

Quote:

- Innin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Reduces enmity and impairs evasion. Grants a bonus to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking target from behind.


Sounds like a DD build to me. What people fail to realize is NIN will have better evasion even with this ability compared to most jobs. It only makes sense for a THF or any /TA job to trick hate on the NIN balancing hate better instead of a WAR or something that doesn't evade at all. If NIN can DD and yet shed hate better than say a hardcore DD, that's a benefit. Let's face it, most DD's hold back regardless of who is tanking.

Quote:

Mijin Gakure

Up until now, ninjas who were revived after using the job ability "Mijin Gakure" would find themselves alive and standing, but in a weakened state. The July version update will see self-sacrificing ninjas restored to battle-ready fitness with a generous 50% of HP in the tank.


It doesn't say if the NIN requires a raise or not. I have self-destruct on my BLU and it could be the same as this now except you retain 50% life upon faking your death. Because it's a 2hr, it can't be exploited. I should mention that self destruct does make you weak, but this sounds similar for the most part.


I'm very pleased with the update. Good job SE.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 8:10am by ShadowedgeFFXI
#8 Jul 03 2009 at 5:05 AM Rating: Default
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well i see the new ability a different way.

nin never have problem holding hate or any enimit problem, because back in the old days before CoP, we already use nin to tank sky god, and never seem to have issue or problems.

however the new ability "Yonin" would help tank better, and enimity gain from the ability is seem to be a bonus.

nin have A+ in evasion, and with the ability "Yonin" when in front of the mob, it boost the evasion even higher, making the mob it tank have chance of missing more.

When you fighting something hard hitting, this is one less things u want to get is getting hit, so higher eva with shadow can make the shadow last abit longer, before need recast.

Also if u need eva gear to tank mob that are hard hitting, doesn't seem any reason u need acc when u do that. e.g. tanking hmn and etc

The other new ability "Innin" i think SE try to make nin able to focus more on DD, rather than just tanking. As SE first release nin, they are ideally want nin to be a DD, it just the player of ffxi getting more creavtive that make use of shadow and eva to make nin into tanker.

So i think SE give nin the ability "Innin" is try to enhance the melee side of nin and want them able to take up DD role as well rather than just tanker role.

the new change of Mijin Gakure is ok, not the best but that 50% hp things with no weakean seem to be good for emergery situration. Where u need a tanker and no other tanker is available. so raise nin, cure and tank again with no downtime of wait for weakean.

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#9 Jul 03 2009 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
- Innin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Reduces enmity and impairs evasion. Grants a bonus to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking target from behind.



The enmity reduction has to be huge to make this JA work properly. Otherwise this will be the same as lolambush for thfs.
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#10 Jul 03 2009 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Xellith wrote:
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/4666/detail.html

Quote:
A host of job adjustments and additions are in the pipes for the upcoming version update, including formidable new abilities for ninjas. Other jobs, too, are scheduled to benefit from myriad adjustments to magic and abilities. In this, the first part in the job adjustment series of articles, we cast the spotlight on ninjas, Vana'diel's agents of stealth and deception.

New Job Abilities

Accomplished in both offense and defense, the art of ninjutsu has over the years proven to be a favorite among adventurers across the land. Now, with the addition of the following two new abilities, ninjas can further enhance either their efficiency in offense or aptitude in defense as befits the situation.

- Yonin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Increases enmity and enhances "ninja tool expertise" effect, but impairs accuracy. Grants a bonus to evasion and critical hit rate when in front of target.

- Innin (Lv.40 Ability Delay: 5 min. Duration: 5 min.)
Reduces enmity and impairs evasion. Grants a bonus to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking target from behind.

- Yonin
Strengthens one's ability to fend off blows from the enemy.
While in effect, Yonin increases enmity and enhances the effect of "ninja tool expertise" in exchange for reduced accuracy. Further bonuses are granted to evasion and critical hit rate when engaging your target from the front.
The potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.

- Innin
Strengthens one's ability to deal damage to the enemy.
While in effect, Innin lowers enmity in exchange for reduced evasion. Further bonuses are granted to accuracy, critical hit rate, and ninjutsu damage when striking your target from behind.
As with Yonin, the potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.

*Notes
The effects of both Yonin and Innin are mutually exclusive. Activating one while the other is in effect will result in the nullification of the one originally in effect.
Yonin and Innin have a shared ability delay. For example, a ninja who uses Yonin must wait for five minutes to elapse before either ability becomes usable again.

In implementing these new abilities, the development team has taken into consideration character positioning during party play and many other factors. To ensure a smooth gaming experience for all, testing and adjustments will be carried out to the fullest extent that time permits.

Mijin Gakure

Up until now, ninjas who were revived after using the job ability "Mijin Gakure" would find themselves alive and standing, but in a weakened state. The July version update will see self-sacrificing ninjas restored to battle-ready fitness with a generous 50% of HP in the tank.

In light of the above changes, the latent effect granted by the ninja mythic weapon will also be adjusted. In place of the effect whereby users of Mijin Gakure are spared being revived in a weakened state, a special new effect will be introduced that will activate after using Mijin Gakure.

Other magic and job abilities scheduled to be on the receiving end of improvements will be introduced in the very near future, so stay tuned!

Quote:
- Yonin
Strengthens one's ability to fend off blows from the enemy.
While in effect, Yonin increases enmity and enhances the effect of "ninja tool expertise" in exchange for reduced accuracy. Further bonuses are granted to evasion and critical hit rate when engaging your target from the front.
The potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.

Quote:
- Yonin
The potency of the above effects gradually decreases over time.

{Too Weak}
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#11 Jul 03 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
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At first I was like OMG NINJA UPDATE

Then I was like AWESOME ninja seigan/hasso.

Then I was like GUH from behind only? ; ;

Unfortunately most of my uses of Ninja also happen to be when I need to be provoking, but maybe they'll let me come ninja to limbus and not be first-voke :X.

Well, we don't know how potent each of the effects is, and these 2 two abilities have alot of effects. Is SE making up for not giving us any abilities until now by packing our abilities with absolutely everything related to ninja? Lots of different effects, and lots of uncertainty as to how potent each effect will be. Who knows what the future of NIN will hold!

Also the Mijin Gakure boost was alright, I like it. I know I've been in the situation where I could blow up but I don't wanna be weakened for the next 5minutes after raise. Or, a whole lotta links on the way to camp, boom. "Aw now we have to wait 5minutes for ninjas weakness to wear". "Not anymore!" etc. It's far from useless, but it's not terrifically useful either.
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#12 Jul 03 2009 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
Quote:
I'm really looking forward to the new JAs. I can see Yonin being especially awesome for NIN/DRK tanking. Maybe we'll finally be able to keep up with PLD's enmity generation.

Nin/drk has never had trouble keeping hate capped.
I was more referring to the speed of enmity generation, rather than keeping it capped.

Iirc, NIN/DRK can keep hate capped easier than PLD can, but PLD can grab initial enmity more efficiently. I could be mistaken of course.
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#14 Jul 03 2009 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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won't know til we see the actual enmity/ACC/crit rate numbers, but looks like a solid buff that won't break the game to me. NIN in merit party: increased ACC full time, increased crit rate when other DD pulls hate away from your initial voke with a WS. lolevasion. NIN/DRK: holds hate well, now holds hate better. sounds good (shrug).
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#15 Jul 03 2009 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, PLD has the edge in zerg fights, where we had nothing to match up to Sentinel + Invincibility. I doubt Yonnin will be potent enough to really change that, but I guess we can hope the effect is big enough initially.

What NIN really needs is some gear or JAs that allow them to survive on par with PLD against stuff like AV and PW. I'm not really holding my breath for that though, Square seems to have a niche for NINs in my mind, and this update was just a carrot to shut us up.
#16Guranimol, Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 6:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nin/Drk is usually used in kited fights from my experiences. Nins gain hate easier in these situations. When face tanking Plds hold hate better from doing dmg and curing themselves. I'm hoping this will give Nins a chance to tank more Hnms.
#17 Jul 03 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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IMO potentially a great update.

Now we should be able to do a true DD build that holds us on par w/ the other DD's ... finally take nin to limbus instead of my rng w/ a true DD build?

Now we are a much better tank in that we evade more and hold hate better. What's not to like?

ALlowing us to DD and tank at the same time would break the game. As it is, what other job can serve two primary roles as well as us? We are a primary tank or a primary DD.

I'm cautiously optimistic. THe disclaimer that they reserve the right to adjust this implies to me that they fear it's too good.....

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 10:56am by Herecumzthepain

One other note, it would seem to me the update is intended to improve our abilities and give us a role in endgame events that we don't have consistently today, NOT to improve our role in meripo, which is understandable. Currently most nin dont have an endgame role that isn't better served by another job, whereas after brd, rdm, and sam nin probably gets meripo invites as fast or faster than any other job.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 10:58am by Herecumzthepain
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#18 Jul 03 2009 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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I am skeptical about the two JA, not sure how much this will help Nin in any situation.

Come on, Nin got 269 Throw skill, just give us affordable Shurikens and we will do fine. This trade-off btw evasion and accuracy seems mostly a 0 sum game to me, along with this restriction of attack from front or behind.

I liked my whm and smn update better.
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#19 Jul 03 2009 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, if you put up reraise beforehand, it's like... you find yourself in a situation where you're about to die during a big important fight! 5 HP left, next hit will surely be your demise! Boom, explode. Get up from your reraise, you'll have half your HP, have a WHM toss a Cure V and you're ready to go good as new!


This is kind of what I am thinking, great for endgame, or solo. Wish my npc would wait for me to reraise before jetting. This update is just in time, and will keep me from selling off all my NIN gear alittle longer.
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#20 Jul 03 2009 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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I read the Mijin change as giving the NIN Reraise also :x
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#21 Jul 03 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
ALlowing us to DD and tank at the same time would break the game. As it is, what other job can serve two primary roles as well as us? We are a primary tank or a primary DD.



you mean like pld can? atonement > blade: jin assuming of course you even get to use katanas instead of an earth staff. even then the new ability lowers your acc so that makes katanas even more useless on big NMs. on anything that isn't a big NM you are probably going to have hate stolen right after you voke from an overzealous sam anyway.

imo they should increase the dmg and enmity generation from san nukes instead of giving us more 'ninja tool expertise'. we dont use san nukes cause they suck, not because they cost gil.

if the -acc is more than 10acc it may be more beneficial not to use the ability. i understand they need more 'game balance' with the abilities but giving a -acc trait to a job that already has a tough time in the acc department is just a slap in the face.

idk, maybe im just grumpy but these abilities dont look good right now. more enmity for nin/drk, a combo that doenst have any problems getting hate in the first place? more dmg from behind? for innin to be useful the playerbase would have to allow nin to go in a DD role and last i checked, they dont consider nin a DD anymore than they consider bst a DD. maybe this ability will close the gap, maybe it wont.

if anything, i can see a bunch of dumbasses running around as nin/thf with **** ass gear making nin DD look even worse.
#22 Jul 03 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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If they were on 1 minute timers these would be so much better. But potency decreases over time and you can only have max 1 up, which means they will probably not be overly helpful after 3 minutes, but we'll wait to see.

Yonin might be great to pop it off right as engaging to get hate up faster, so at the very least for end game it looks like a mini-sentinel to assist in speed of gaining hate.

Innin, at first glance, looks shoddy. You have some weird ninja ambush that decreases over time, but it really depends on how much accuracy and critical hit bonuses you get. I mean, how often do you guys find yourself on ninja facing the back of a mob? Maybe in merits, though mobs twirl til they die half the time.

If the numbers are huge when you use them it has promise, but I think the fact you need to be behind or in front really limit them, on top of the shared 5 minute timer.

Maybe they'll add the timer in your merits! Then you'll have a decent merit option...
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#23 Jul 03 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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As was mentioned, I'll reserve judgement until we know the actual numbers but I already hate the fact that I have to be behind the mob for the full bonus from Innin though. It's already annoying enough trying to get in front of the mob for Overwhelm on SAM, and that's only when I want to WS. I hope it doesn't decrease in potency too rapidly over time.

SE wants to solve all their problems with stance-dancing.
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#24 Jul 03 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Potency decreasing over time and having to face the back of the mob are really putting me off from what i tought it was the best part of this update: Innin.

I dont tank on nin, so there is very little gain from Yonin for me.

Actually, to tell the truth, i dont do much on nin anymore. If Innin does bring NIN back on par with 2 handers for DD purposes, it will be good, but every time i think about the ability, the 5 min cooldown and the fact that you must be behind the mob it puts me down. It just has too many constraints.

The attacking from behind is particularly cruel. It is unusable in many places. Even on many NMs that dont have back attacks, the simple fact that they are big can put you far enough from the mages or other melee that you cant get targets by a cure or brd spell unless your mage drives right into AoE range.
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#25 Jul 03 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Well Saber Dance for dnc has a decrease over time, but it's still very strong going from 50%~10% DA iirc. So an accuracy and crit bonus might be very, very substantial and you'll just need to rework macros so that after a certain amount of time you might swap more acc gear in. If it is decreasing effectiveness it should at least have an awesome starting point to justify having to average its worth over 5 minutes.

Both look interesting for quick fights at the very least.
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#26 Jul 03 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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I think after this update, I'm going to do have one of our members switch to NIN and go:

Nin/war
Nin/war
Blu/thf
Sam/thf
Thf/nin
..insert mages here.

And let the people SATA to their heart's content... with the added bonus of having each NIN be able to switch roles on the fly depending on the facing of the mob.

Just to try it out.
Though I'm sure the timers will **** us.

hmm..


Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 3:25pm by johnnykrysys
#27 Jul 03 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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That would work great except that they share an ability timer which makes no sense to me.

I'm glad to see the boosts to all the things but I would have liked to see them swappable like Hasso/Seigan or the Afflatuses.
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#28 Jul 03 2009 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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Wouldn't the plural form of Afflatus be Afflatii?
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#29 Jul 03 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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NIN/drk had no problem holding hate before, this just makes it easier. Even to generate hate fast at the beginning of a fight, equip full enmity stuff, then souleater, last resort and weapon bash with a staff or something. The evasion buff is the real meat here.

Innin is a real boost to DD capability of NIN. If you're complaining this is useless because the mob faces you all the time with a single provoke, then why do you need a damage boost anyway? Seems like you're already outdamaging all of your melees. The thing is, you have to choose. You either choose to tank or you choose to damage deal and not bother with tanking. NIN has already been an excellent balance of tanking and DD, wanting a boost to both at the same time is greedy.

The Mijin Gakure update is amazing. There are many situations where a wipe is inevitable because your mages have died, or have no mp with you at red HP and the mob is readying a huge ability etc. Many situations where you can foresee death. Having operational tanks is one of the most important things in big fights, and being able to get the tank back up immediately ready is immensely helpful.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 4:19pm by Deswolf
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#30 Jul 03 2009 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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Filian wrote:
Wouldn't the plural form of Afflatus be Afflatii?
Just one i at the end, actually.
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#31 Jul 03 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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im just happy that the ninja job ability list is finally getting something other than mijin gakure lol
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#32 Jul 03 2009 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I've said it once and I'll say it again. The increased enmity increases all hate tools, not only melee or /drk builds. I can truly see Ninjitsu being used for hate at all levels plus Provoke/Warcry gain a boost too for /war. I believe the +enmity will be huge at first and lessen off to existing enmity levels as timer cools to zero. For trading a bit of ACC, for guaranteed extra hate and evasion and 'tool expertise', that's pure gold by SE. You'll also notice SE didn't extend recast timers for Ninjitsu. That should sum up the the logic behind that considering pretty much all stances **** recast nowadays. Composure, Hasso/Segain, and Light/dark arts.

For low-manning, I can see NIN/dnc as a powerhouse. DNC voke is kinda meh right now, but with increased enmity, it might be worth it plus healing. Plus the ACC/evasion bonus traits.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 4:40pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#33 Jul 03 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Innin is completely and utterly useless. When are you on NIN and not facing the enemy? The striking from behind requirement is complete BS. The shared timer is complete BS. The reduced effect over time will be insanely annoying, it means you have to swap your gear around to compensate for the accuracy change as time passes.

I don't know why they couldn't have just made it like Hasso/Seigan.

Yonin seems like it will probably be useful for solo or low-man, or tanking in general for that matter. I don't know why they threw the ninja tool expertise in there, I mean, who gives a crap.

The Mijin update is about 4 years overdue, but I'm glad for it. Seems unclear if you get an auto-RR or not. I'm not sure if that would be a good thing or not, if it is auto-RR you can't use it for warping anymore.

This is probably the last update ninja well ever see. Hopefully it turns out to be better than it appears at first glance.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 5:53pm by Lothiriel
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#34 Jul 03 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default
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Innin is completely and utterly useless. When are you on NIN and not facing the enemy?

Meriting?
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#35 Jul 03 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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if it is auto-RR you can't use it for warping anymore.


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#36 Jul 03 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Honestly, If I get a very high enmity boost at the beginning of use allowing me to use a very high enmity producing voke and stun I'll be happy. As for the DD increases from these job abilities, Im still expected to be first voke in merits, basically useless as far as DD goes.
#37 Jul 03 2009 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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harrybob wrote:
Honestly, If I get a very high enmity boost at the beginning of use allowing me to use a very high enmity producing voke and stun I'll be happy. As for the DD increases from these job abilities, Im still expected to be first voke in merits, basically useless as far as DD goes.

First voke doesn't mean tank.
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#38 Jul 03 2009 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Innin is completely and utterly useless. When are you on NIN and not facing the enemy?


When you use Innin?
#39 Jul 03 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Guess what Mr. Sam/war with seigan/thirdeye/overwhelm..........you are now the first voke in merit pts. Ima be on autoattack/ws/afk mode like other DD have been for years......
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#40 Jul 03 2009 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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If I first voke in a merit party, the monster is facing me-that is until another DD weaponskills, but at that point the monster is dead anyway.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 9:18pm by harrybob
#41 Jul 03 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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that fact that we got new ja is awesome. yea they could have been better here or there. but honestly i think nin is already awesome soloer, i just hope that these ja would not bring nin so far ahead to a broken state that ppl complain and get nin nerfed. also im sure that there will be time before these are truely set in. ive notice se gets nothing right, right at the begaining of an update. it will prob be adjusted either tuned up or down some. i personally can't wait to try these out. hopefully the acc nerf with the ja on isnt like your -50 acc and basically blind lol.
#42 Jul 03 2009 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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I have NIN75 though I admittedly rarely use it but I have tried to keep it decently geared anyway. Yonin seems like it might be pretty useful and exceptional for soloing if the acc loss isn't too severe.

Innin sounds good too... until "when striking target from behind."

as I read it, you get the reduced enmity and evasion full-time. Yet you only get the good stuff "from behind" More acc and higher ninjutsu dmg means that you are less likely to remain behind the mob because you'll just get hate. Needing to be behind makes it 100% worthless while soloing. and if it's a SAM you're hoping to pull hate off you... guess where he's going to be lol. Right behind you making sure overwhelm procs.

I can only see innin being useful for NINs when a PLD or someone else is the designated tanker. It would allow a NIN to be a pure DD... provided you stay behind the mob full time. I guess it's a step toward taking NIN away from tanking and back to just DDing. I'm not sure if that makes inviting a NIN to a merit pt or event more or less desirable to other people though. I know NINs (even when tanking) are beasts when it comes to DoT so maybe this will move them higher up the DD ladder when tanking is removed from the equation.

As for mijin, if the NIN is playing a strcitly DD, no tanking role, I could see it being used a little more often. But if SE wanted to make it sexy, they shoulda let mijin be magic-burstable after an SC lol.



Edited, Jul 4th 2009 12:47am by TDGSW
#43 Jul 03 2009 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Am i the only one seeing potential for ninja solo with the adjustment to mijin gakure? say the mob you're fighting is about to kill you, you've got RR on... Mijin Gakure, hurt it a little, RR with 50% hp and finish the fight.
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#44 Jul 03 2009 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Aluus wrote:
Am i the only one seeing potential for ninja solo with the adjustment to mijin gakure? say the mob you're fighting is about to kill you, you've got RR on... Mijin Gakure, hurt it a little, RR with 50% hp and finish the fight.


If it's any significant mob or NM, reraising near it with 50% HP and no shadows sounds like a death wish; letting it wander out of range would let another camper take the claim.

Personally, I'm interested in seeing if it removes the weakness status effect. If your NIN/DRK wipes on an HNM or boss, having them pop Mijin Gakure and be up and tanking again 5 minutes sooner sounds great.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 1:33am by jprvoices
#45 Jul 03 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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i tried some unibroue 15 today and it was **** awesome. last bottle in the store. think about that when you consider these new JAs for NIN.
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#46 Jul 03 2009 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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jprvoices wrote:
Aluus wrote:
Am i the only one seeing potential for ninja solo with the adjustment to mijin gakure? say the mob you're fighting is about to kill you, you've got RR on... Mijin Gakure, hurt it a little, RR with 50% hp and finish the fight.


If it's any significant mob or NM, reraising near it with 50% HP and no shadows sounds like a death wish; letting it wander out of range would let another camper take the claim.

Personally, I'm interested in seeing if it removes the weakness status effect. If your NIN/DRK wipes on an HNM or boss, having them pop Mijin Gakure and be up and tanking again 5 minutes sooner sounds great.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 1:33am by jprvoices
I beleive they are implying that Nagi's effect is being put on Mijin Gakure normally (no weakness). Not much point in saying raised with 50% hp and weakened, as that's what normally happens with R3 no?

So approximately when do we anticipate this update will arrive? Itching to test new abilities. :o
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#47 Jul 04 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I think what he meant was can you "cheat?" Say the NIN/DRK dies normally, raises, can he pop mijin gakure and then raise unweakened at 50% hp? kinda doubt it. more willing to bet that the "double weakness" effect overrides ninja two hour.
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#48 Jul 04 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:
Well, if you put up reraise beforehand, it's like... you find yourself in a situation where you're about to die during a big important fight! 5 HP left, next hit will surely be your demise! Boom, explode. Get up from your reraise, you'll have half your HP, have a WHM toss a Cure V and you're ready to go good as new!

Except the WHM is now tanking, since your hate has been reset on the mob. ;)
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#49 Jul 04 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Quote:
Innin is completely and utterly useless. When are you on NIN and not facing the enemy?

Meriting?


Those abilities are useless in merits. Unless other DD starts WS at the very beginning of the fight and NIN just starts to build TP, Nin can hold hate quite well, at least until someone WS, and if NIN WS at about the same time, there is a very good chance for the NIN to continue to hold hate for a couple more second, if not, it matters not at all because mob surely dies quick by then.

Attack from behind in merit party is a joke. Hate flies, mob turns around at all directions if dds surround it. But most times DDs fight on the same side for auto-target, making attack from behind utterly useless in merit.

Would Innin turn NIN into a purely DD in long time fights in some HNM situations? That really remains to be seen, and I kinda doubt it would happen. If Innin would make NIN on par with other first class DD on HNM, I'd be really happy. I'd so enjoy being a pure DD NIN.

Use Yonin in merit? That makes no sense. Does Yonin transfer from one mob to the next? Even so, reduce damage is not a good thing in merit.

PS: if SE removes the restriction of attack from front or behind for the new JAs, I'd be more enthusiastic about the nin update. Maybe 2 hour gonna end up as the best update for NIN.


Edited, Jul 4th 2009 11:15am by icebabyisme

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 11:16am by icebabyisme
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#50 Jul 04 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
zelduh wrote:
Well, if you put up reraise beforehand, it's like... you find yourself in a situation where you're about to die during a big important fight! 5 HP left, next hit will surely be your demise! Boom, explode. Get up from your reraise, you'll have half your HP, have a WHM toss a Cure V and you're ready to go good as new!
Except the WHM is now tanking, since your hate has been reset on the mob. ;)


at least then the nin will have a chance to use Innin since they will be behind the mob.... o wait... it lowers enmity generation...

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#51 Jul 04 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I can see Yonin potentially being a huge boost to /DNC. Depending on how large the enmity boost and accuracy penalty is, the Animated Flourish and cures can be enough to hold hate, potentially better than /WAR.
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