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Atma and Tanking AdviceFollow

#1 Jul 26 2012 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere but I couldn't find anything on this. Which atma are best for mnk? Currently I've only concentrated on offense with RR, VV, and GH. Is this the standard while working on Apoc? And when I do get Apoc, which should I sub it for, VV?

After I get better gear for tanking, which ones should I get? Also what's the best approach for tanking nowadays? Should I just /war and counter tank?
#2 Jul 29 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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RR GH VV till you can RR GH Apoc
same atmas for tanking, counterstance always.
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#3 Jul 29 2012 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I use SS instead of apoc sometimes. If im reasonably sure i wont need the reraise. Quick cast does nothing for my monk, which is usually /war or /dnc. If im tanking something i need shadows for ill just tank it on ninja usually. Which btw, AoA is perfectly suited for.
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#4 Jul 30 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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'scuse my only just came back ignorance, but could you give me the full names of all those Atmas?
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#5 Jul 30 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Atma of the:

Razed Ruins
Voracious Violet
Sanguine Scythe
Apocalypse
Gnarled Horn

AoA... Atma of Ambition? Not sure on that one.
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#6 Jul 30 2012 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Diamondis wrote:
Atma of the:

Razed Ruins
Voracious Violet
Sanguine Scythe
Apocalypse
Gnarled Horn

AoA... Atma of Ambition? Not sure on that one.


Yeah those are the staples (AoA= Atma of Apocalpyse ;) )

VV is nice for /dnc as it has tp regain.
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#7 Jul 30 2012 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Ohhh, I see lol.
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#8 Jul 30 2012 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks much Smiley: thumbsup
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#9 Jul 31 2012 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Roaring laughter is ok too if you don't have gnarled horn yet.
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#10 Jul 31 2012 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Sanguine Scythe will give you significantly higher DPS than Gnarled Horn, with a little icing on the side with +enmity (useful in low man or MNK+WHM duos) and +HP. Even without Shadows for insta-cast, Apoc's TA puts it above Gnarled Horn and Alpha/Omega as a DD Atma.

If you're tanking, you're either killing outright or procing blue. For killing, you really should go for pure DPS killing speed, which you'll want RR, SS, Apoc. For procing, you'll definately want the accuracy from RR and the TA from Apoc to quickly build TP. Add SS for DPS, and you have a good atma set for procing and then killing.

The AGI (for evasion and subtle blow) and +Counter on GH is nice, but it's only really necessary if you're super paranoid about taking damage, such as having a subpar healer. Counterstance and Perfect Counter provide plenty of countering for nearly any Abyssea NM.

So basically for most situations, I'd use RR, SS, Apoc. Special cases like skilling up or severe special damage from NMs are different.
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#11 Jul 31 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Did someone test SS against GH for DPS? Not saying you're wrong at all, and I've been out of the game a while, but +30% Crit DMG seems a little lackluster compared to +20% Crit Hit Chance, +10% more chance to proc Counter (and therefore another shot at a critical hit). SS adds nothing to your DPS if you don't crit whereas GH gives you more chance to crit as well as more attempts at a crit with the added Counter %. Just curious if anyone has done the maths behind it.

Edit: SS wins!

Edited, Aug 1st 2012 7:10am by Diamondis
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#12 Jul 31 2012 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Lets also keep in mind a few things:

1. Its difficult to judge atmas in a void. Its best to compare sets of atmas. Increased crit dmg > Crit rate if your crit rate is high enough. To be sure, im no mathlete and idk if youre realistically going to be in that situation much.

2. Counter isn't just for defense. Im not saying that this makes GH the "better atma". Just more counter=more dps.

3. sh*ts situational. I think we all get that one by now though.

4. GH actually IS the best atma! AGI for guard!*





*sorry. I just miss the old guard debates.


Edited, Jul 31st 2012 10:10pm by Llester
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#13 Aug 01 2012 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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Diamondis wrote:
Did someone test SS against GH for DPS? Not saying you're wrong at all, and I've been out of the game a while, but +30% Crit DMG seems a little lackluster compared to +20% Crit Hit Chance, +10% more chance to proc Counter (and therefore another shot at a critical hit). SS adds nothing to your DPS if you don't crit whereas GH gives you more chance to crit as well as more attempts at a crit with the added Counter %. Just curious if anyone has done the maths behind it.

I didn't sit down and do a long, equation by equation write up, no. But it wasn't a parse or eyeball, I just compared the two on Kinematics' DPS Spreadsheet, which is about as accurate as you can get. You are, of course, more than welcome to compare them as well and let me know if I was wrong.

What happened was GH used to be better until an update a year or so back changed the crit formula, raising the crit damage cap, and put SS ahead. There's posts on the MNK forums about it if I can dig them up.

Spreadsheet was latest download. Gear is good, but not top of the line. Target was Buhkis, good upper-range NM. WS was Victory Smite, Ascetic's won't be that different. Taru MNK/WAR: 16 H2H, 6 STR, 5% Crit, 5 Counter, 5 Kick merits, Bison Steak, Impetus.
TP: 
Vere 90   |          |           | Protestas 
Tantra +2 | Rancor   | Brutal    | Aesir 
Tantra +2 | Melee +2 | Rajas     | Epona 
Atheling  | Black    | Tantra +2 | Tantra +2 

WS: 
Vere 90   |          |           | Thew 
Aias      | Rancor   | Brutal    | Kemas 
Tantra +2 | Heafoc   | Rajas     | Epona 
Atheling  | Black    | Hachiryu  | Tantra +2 


DPS for each Atma setup:

RR, SS, Apoc : 517.115
RR, SS, Alpha/Omega : 511.578
RR, SS, VV : 498.988
RR, GH, SS : 488.971
RR, GH, VV : 467.303
RR, GH, Apoc : 484.869

RR, SS, and Apoc is the best DD Atma setup, and SS+Apoc offer salient tanking bonuses while RR+Apoc offer salient procing bonuses.

Edited, Aug 1st 2012 4:24am by jlejeune
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#14 Aug 01 2012 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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That's fair enough then ^^ completely forgot about his spreadsheet. Now all I have to do is work out if my character had SS, and if not, how much of a pain it will be to gather people to proc/kill the doom-inducing NM that drops it -.-
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#15 Aug 04 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow that's a pretty significant jump. Time to change things up.
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MNK: "OK we're gonna go in and get those items."
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MNK: "Plan? I was going to walk through the front door and start punching people."
#16 Aug 04 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Killed the NM for SS with three ls mates. A WHM, NIN and BLM with me on my WAR for the proc. Wasn't too bad, I was the only one to get KO'd.
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#17 Aug 04 2012 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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That's cos u suck bro!
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#18 Aug 05 2012 at 5:15 AM Rating: Excellent
I despise Bukhis, and I hate any time I need to go out there to kill it for one reason or another (new person needing the Atma, or friends needing stones/Bukhis wings). It's not so much that he's difficult...just exceedingly annoying cause of all the AoE shadow wipes and Dooms.

Grats on getting Sanguine Scythe.

Edited, Aug 5th 2012 7:19am by Vlorsutes
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#19 Aug 05 2012 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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I need to kill him at least two more times with yellow procs for my WAR. Smiley: glare
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#20 Aug 05 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah hes super annoying.

In other news, ls started farming chloris again this week. 4/50 buds. Baby steps to the verethragna.
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#21 Aug 06 2012 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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I despise Bukhis, and I hate any time I need to go out there to kill it for one reason or another (new person needing the Atma, or friends needing stones/Bukhis wings). It's not so much that he's difficult...just exceedingly annoying cause of all the AoE shadow wipes and Dooms.


I won't go fight Bukhis unless I get to use NIN (can usually Utsusemi away the Lethal Triclip) or PLD (it has Ochain, and shield blocking prevents cruor buff loss from Lethal Triclip)

I actually hate Quasimodo the most out of all those NMs, to be honest. Out of nowhere Shock Spikes for way more than enough damage to 1-hit kill anyone is not only extremely annoying (and most likely a remnant from the time when Tristitia used to have the same occasional overpowered Shock Spikes, except only Tristitia got fixed and Quasimodo seems to have been overlooked), it probably makes certain Gungnir owners very bitter.
#22 Aug 06 2012 at 1:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I despise Bukhis, and I hate any time I need to go out there to kill it for one reason or another (new person needing the Atma, or friends needing stones/Bukhis wings). It's not so much that he's difficult...just exceedingly annoying cause of all the AoE shadow wipes and Dooms.


I won't go fight Bukhis unless I get to use NIN (can usually Utsusemi away the Lethal Triclip) or PLD (it has Ochain, and shield blocking prevents cruor buff loss from Lethal Triclip)

I actually hate Quasimodo the most out of all those NMs, to be honest. Out of nowhere Shock Spikes for way more than enough damage to 1-hit kill anyone is not only extremely annoying (and most likely a remnant from the time when Tristitia used to have the same occasional overpowered Shock Spikes, except only Tristitia got fixed and Quasimodo seems to have been overlooked), it probably makes certain Gungnir owners very bitter.


Wait...was that a quip about my Gungnir? That was a bit of a jolting comment there.

As for his Shock Spikes, they aren't "out of nowhere". When he goes into his resting mode, where he sits with his head in his hands, he'll gain the Shock Spikes effect, and when he comes out of the resting position, he'll lose them. It's not much different than some of the other stances that NMs (especially Abyssea NMs) have where there's a moment or phase where you just can't attack them. When he chooses to sit down tends to be random, but the Shock Spikes always come up when he sits down.

Edited, Aug 6th 2012 3:47am by Vlorsutes
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#23 Aug 06 2012 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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As for his Shock Spikes, they aren't "out of nowhere". When he goes into his resting mode, where he sits with his head in his hands, he'll gain the Shock Spikes effect, and when he comes out of the resting position, he'll lose them.


Yes, I know that, but when he goes into resting mode IS pretty much out of nowhere. There is no warning of any kind that he'll do it, he just sometimes does it before doing Shadow Burst, and not always. The only real way to prevent death against it is to turn around after every melee hit+WS when you think he has TP, and that's just annoying to have to do for what's supposed to be a lesser tier NM. I've been killed by Quasimodo more than Bukhis, I think, solely because of those spikes.


Quote:
Wait...was that a quip about my Gungnir? That was a bit of a jolting comment there.


Yes, yes it was. Consider it part of my stunning personality.
#24 Aug 06 2012 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
As for his Shock Spikes, they aren't "out of nowhere". When he goes into his resting mode, where he sits with his head in his hands, he'll gain the Shock Spikes effect, and when he comes out of the resting position, he'll lose them.


Yes, I know that, but when he goes into resting mode IS pretty much out of nowhere. There is no warning of any kind that he'll do it, he just sometimes does it before doing Shadow Burst, and not always. The only real way to prevent death against it is to turn around after every melee hit+WS when you think he has TP, and that's just annoying to have to do for what's supposed to be a lesser tier NM. I've been killed by Quasimodo more than Bukhis, I think, solely because of those spikes.


Quote:
Wait...was that a quip about my Gungnir? That was a bit of a jolting comment there.


Yes, yes it was. Consider it part of my stunning personality.


That's odd actually. I solo farmed Quasimodo for my Black Mage and Red Mage feet seals (chose him cause he could drop both) and I never had an issue with him and his resting mode. There was always plenty of time between him starting to go into resting mode and actually bringing up shock spikes to turn around before I struck them, even with my Ninja's attack speed.
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