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An unfortunate monk (me) with lots of questionsFollow

#1 Dec 30 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Default
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I, like many others, chose to level monk after Abyssea came out. Being an 8 year veteran of the game I'm not crazy about the new super fast way to level up by key leeching or doing grounds of valor and getting 20+ levels in one day for one simple reason: Most people don't learn how to play the job this way and often fall short of expectations. This being said, I understand that's simply how it's done these days.

Because of this, I feel I have not learned the finer points of being a monk very well as I have not grown with the job the way I grew with my pre-abyssea jobs. Having admitted this I ask everyone to refrain from the flames and shouts of "noob monk" etc etc etc but rather, give me the helpful advice I seek here so that I may meet expectations in game.

Finally know that I am reading other topics and some guides on MNK so while it's true some answers to my questions may be found else where, I AM looking elsewhere but would like some more direct responses and discussion on my inquiries.

First is a question of gear

where I sit currently

MNK99
weapon: hades sainti
ranged: thew bomblet
Head: tantra +1
neck: Agasya's collar
Ear1: ethereal earring
Ear2: Brutal earring
Body: Tantra +2
hands: Tantra +1
Ring1: rajas
Ring2: ulthalam's
back: atheling mantle
waist: brown belt
legs: tantra +1
feet: Tantra +1

questions:
-which pieces of my gear are most abysmal and need to be upgraded/changed out first?
-which pieces should I be aspiring to get (of course the rest of my tantra +2 and the black belt but what else)
-feel free to throw in any other comments about my gear that I should know

Subjob questions
NIN and DNC seem to be the most common sub jobs.
-Should I stick with just these?
-what other subjobs are needed?
-In what situations might I use "xxx" sub job?

random mnk ?s
-What is the point of footwork and when should I use it (I know what it does, I can read ability descriptions, that's not what I'm asking here)
-Counterstance seems to be more detrimental then helpful, when should I use it, can I improve it's functionality or practicality?
-I can think of a few situations in which formless strikes is useful, but when should I generally be using it?
-are there any guides anywhere or just a list of general tips and areas for leveling the guard skill
-what merits should I focus on? what merit set ups are most common
-is shijin spiral worth a 5/5 meriting
-what are some useful macros I should be making?


-any other comments are tidbits about mnk that I should know please feel free to throw at me =)

appreciate all the help!

also, has anyone done the quest Aphmau's vacation in Kazham?

Thanks again
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DRG99|BLM99|MNK99|PLD91|SMN90|NIN75|
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Just trying to enjoy playing the game
#2 Dec 30 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Just quickly running through some of your things.

Hades Sainti you'll want to upgrade as soon as you can since that's a very outdated weapon. If you have no immediate aspirations for the Empyrean or the WoE version, I'd say do the fire path h2h Trial of the Magian weapon, or at least try to get a pair of Taurine Cesti from Indrik in Abyssea - Uleguerand.

When you can, upgrade your Ulthalam's to the Epona's Ring, since that is arguably the best ring to TP in for all the jobs that can equip it.

Ethereal you can upgrade to either an Aesir Ear Pendant or, if it manages to bump you up a tier of h2h skill, the Bruiser's Earring.

In place of Agasaya's, if you can get a Faith Torque or a Rancor Collar (you'll need to build your Tonberry hate for that one), they are both better to TP in (Faith will also need to bump you into another damage tier to push past Agasaya's I believe)

Nowadays /War is by far the most often used subjob for Monk, with /Nin and /Dnc having their uses here and there, but nowhere near as common as before.

Basically Footwork was only good for those that had a Tornado Kick setup, since for a time there it with Footwork was the best WS combo for Mnk. However, nowadays, between the Empyrean weaponskill and Shijin Spiral, Tornado Kick, and by extension Footwork, are largely unnecessary.

I don't do enough with Mnk to really say when the best time to use Counterstance would be, so that's more of a by feel situation. If you have the support though, generally any time you're fighting something where you'll be holding hate and acting as the main tank.

Formless Strikes you'll essentially want to use whenever it's a mob that takes little to no real damage from physical attacks but would take more from magic attacks (Elementals for example). There aren't a lot of mobs that you'd need it on, but every now and then you will run into that mob.

It's an older video, but Elmerthepointy made this showing the basic way to skill up, and gives you the general formula to work with as far as determining how to decide of a mob is sufficient level for you to be able to gain skill ups off them. Now, if your skill is generally high enough (around the 200's or so at least), you could probably throw on a bunch of the good +Regen atmas and just gather up some Fear Dearg (Mandragora types) near Conflux #6 in Abyssea - Altepa and just position yourself as best you can to let them attack you from the front. You'll want to watch out for the NM cactuar Cuijatender in the area, but other than that it's probably one of the better places to skill up your Guard if it's already decently high.

What I did for my Mnk merits (and what I believe is still the most common method) is 5/5 into Counter and 5/5 into Kick Attacks for your Tier 1s, 5/5 into Penance, 4/5 into Invigorate, and then 1/5 into Formless Strikes for your Tier 2s.

Shijin Spiral is pretty much the best WS for those that don't have an Empyrean or Mythic, so in your case it'd be well worth meriting.

You'll probably want a weaponskill macro, gear swap macros for TP and WS, and macros for job abilities and any gear to augment them (i.e. Temple Gloves for Boost, etc). If you plan to use multiple subjobs for Mnk, you may want to have different palettes for each subjob, so that you could have their particular job abilities and/or spells macroed as well.
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#3 Dec 31 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,236 posts
Filling in a few bits aside from what Vlor already said:

questions:
-which pieces of my gear are most abysmal and need to be upgraded/changed out first?

As Vlor answered: weapon. Grotesque Cesti off of AH are also a good option.

-which pieces should I be aspiring to get (of course the rest of my tantra +2 and the black belt but what else)

AF3+2 and Black Belt are pretty much the only major options on the TP side, but there's tons more situational gear. You'll want a heavy dex build if you merit Shijin Spiral, plus good PDT and MDT gear sets, and a fair amount of vit gear for Chakra.

Subjob questions
NIN and DNC seem to be the most common sub jobs.
-Should I stick with just these?
-what other subjobs are needed?
-In what situations might I use "xxx" sub job?

War: pure DD
Dnc: solo (if mobs are vaguely difficult; otherwise Chakra is usually more than enough) or when proc'ing in Dynamis
Nin: when you want to proc grellow in Abyssea and you don't trust the other fools to bring tools (if you even have anyone else nin or /nin); anything you want to be at least somewhat cautious about when fighting
Thf: farming
Nothing else of any notable use except standard warps/teleports

random mnk ?s
-Counterstance seems to be more detrimental then helpful, when should I use it, can I improve it's functionality or practicality?

Use Melee Gaiters. Use when the mob doesn't have high-damage TP moves that have a high chance to kill you. Mostly learn this through experience, so for a new mnk, use Counterstance as often as possible so you can learn your limits. Do NOT use against rng's (you can't counter ranged attacks, and ranged attacks get far more of a boost against low-def targets than melee attacks).


-any other comments are tidbits about mnk that I should know please feel free to throw at me =)

Mnk is like thf in the "I laugh in your general direction" attitude. With Counterstance and Perfect Counter, decent evasion + Dodge + good evasion gear, solid options for both PDT and MDT, a lot of HP to absorb attacks and Chakra for occasional bursts of instant recovery, it takes a lot for a mob to actually threaten a well-prepared mnk. A good mnk will not only be tanking simply due to damage output, but prefer to tank over many other DD jobs simply because it's so much easier to stay alive.

#4 Dec 31 2011 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like to add to what Kine said, that when tanking mobs and using conterstance, remember you can also throw up Berserk. Since Counterstance lower your defence so much, further lowering it with Berserk won't matter at all.

Monk tanking in essence (abyssea);
- Counter
- PDT/MDT sets
- Raw dmg to keep hate

Outside of abyssea I would take more caution with using Counterstance, remember that mages do not have infinite mana here.
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#5 Dec 31 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Just adding stuff in

Get Melee gaiters from Dyna Sandy. Macro in with Counterstance. Countering ~60% of attacks is worth the increased damage you take. Also if you have a decent whm along. They can cure you for nearly anything short of a 1 shot nowadays.

/war is my default subjob now. I spent some time getting the "All jobs" type weapons for procing red in abussea. Always amusing to us Red Lotus Blade on mnk with my Shanai or if I have to /nin using my Wooden Katana. I only regret I never got the Pitchfork so I could do Raiden Thrust.

There are quests in the past for getting all job weapons that have + 1 (skill) - theres a knife, katana and club maybe (but I normally just use a warp cudgel for that)

I do a lot of stuff in duos so I don't do the recommned tier 1 merits as listed above. I did 5/5 chakra recast and 5/5 counter. Tier 2 - going be to dropping my Formless Strike as I havnt needed it in the last year at all, and going 5/5 penance and 5/5 invigorate.


#6 Jan 01 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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RalosDrg wrote:
I, like many others, chose to level monk after Abyssea came out. Being an 8 year veteran of the game I'm not crazy about the new super fast way to level up by key leeching or doing grounds of valor and getting 20+ levels in one day for one simple reason: Most people don't learn how to play the job this way and often fall short of expectations. This being said, I understand that's simply how it's done these days.

Because of this, I feel I have not learned the finer points of being a monk very well as I have not grown with the job the way I grew with my pre-abyssea jobs. Having admitted this I ask everyone to refrain from the flames and shouts of "noob monk" etc etc etc but rather, give me the helpful advice I seek here so that I may meet expectations in game.

Finally know that I am reading other topics and some guides on MNK so while it's true some answers to my questions may be found else where, I AM looking elsewhere but would like some more direct responses and discussion on my inquiries.


It makes me happy to see this mentality exists, so I will answer fully. I know others replied so some will be repeat information(read: correct, wonderful information) some may not be. I've been a career Monk, up until recently, since 2006 so I've seen it all and done it all. I'm not the best by any means but I've known the best ~.^

Quote:
First is a question of gear

where I sit currently

MNK99
weapon: hades sainti -> As said get Taurine. Fire Path is annoying but apparently the new +4 item beats Tuarine so get!
ranged: thew bomblet -> Great, but Tantra is better and easy. Almost any mage can solo the Atto Ironclad.
Head: tantra +1 -> +2 it, that's it.

neck: Agasya's collar -> Fine until Rancor. Faith is nice but a real PITA.
Ear1: ethereal earring
Ear2: Brutal earring
Body: Tantra +2
hands: Tantra +1 -> +2 it, that's it.
Ring1: rajas
Ring2: ulthalam's -> I prefer Heed. acc, eva, subtle blow? Yes please. But, Epona's is the end all.
back: atheling mantle

waist: brown belt -> I actually would use Twilight over this if you can +2 some pieces before Black Belt. I cap haste without it and 8STR vs Double Attack is an obvious choice for TPing.
legs: tantra +1 -> +2 it, that's it.
feet: Tantra +1 -> I use Fuma. Capping haste is THE single greatest stat gain. There's way better I bet but I've had Fume forever and a half. Haste cap first!

questions:
-which pieces of my gear are most abysmal and need to be upgraded/changed out first?
-which pieces should I be aspiring to get (of course the rest of my tantra +2 and the black belt but what else)
-feel free to throw in any other comments about my gear that I should know


As for "abysmal"? Just the weapon lol. Rest are pretty good and easy to work with until upgraded.

Quote:
Subjob questions
NIN and DNC seem to be the most common sub jobs.
-Should I stick with just these?
-what other subjobs are needed?
-In what situations might I use "xxx" sub job?


A lot of people tank /war, which I can't stand unless you have ZERO threat of big TP moves. For AoE mobs yeah, /war is great but for anything with reg attacks and hard single-target TP, I stick /nin. For exp I /war because hey, WHM's need to earn their place. :P /dnc is awesome for solo fun in and out of Aby.

Quote:
random mnk ?s
-What is the point of footwork and when should I use it (I know what it does, I can read ability descriptions, that's not what I'm asking here)
-Counterstance seems to be more detrimental then helpful, when should I use it, can I improve it's functionality or practicality?
-I can think of a few situations in which formless strikes is useful, but when should I generally be using it?
-are there any guides anywhere or just a list of general tips and areas for leveling the guard skill
-what merits should I focus on? what merit set ups are most common
-is shijin spiral worth a 5/5 meriting
-what are some useful macros I should be making?


Footwork is useless thanks to Crit in Abyssea. With RR+GH+Apoc I swing/crit almost nonstop and Ascetic's being so easy to obtain now...
Counterstance is made of all that is win. Don't use on Ironclads. Aside that, with full merits+AF2 Boots+Gnarled Horn atma you are are MONSTER at Countering. Add in an Ultion Mantle and you are destroying things. Make sure to use Perfect Counter with an Utsu: Ichi macro. I've never had an interrupted Ichi on Monk.
Formless I had for years. I unmerited it and put it in Invigorate. I've found next to NO use for it nowdays. Some mobs may Invincible but doing dinky damage for the 30sec to cancel it again is just not worth it to me.
Merits: 5/5 Counter, 5/5 Kicks, 5/5 Penance and either 5/5 Invigorate or 4/5 with 1 in Formless.
Shijin Spiral I can't comment on due to not having it. I went 1 Sword, 4 G.Swd, 5 G.Ktn and 5 Dagger :/ but I HEAR it rocks out of Aby(which is nice because Ascetics and Asuran blow).
Macros? Your Mileage May Vary lol. I put in my AF head for Focus, feet for Dodge, AF2 feet for Counterstance, AFbody+AF2 hands + FULL VIT SET for Chakra(it gets nice). I put Perfect Counter in Ichi to prevent interrupts. If tanking I full-time Ultion, if not, Atheling. I put Chi Blast on <stnpc> so I can snag an add easier.
That aside, not much matters aside the typical WS macros and JA's.

Long post is long but I try to be thorough. Any more questions ask and I'll do my best to look.
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#7 Jan 01 2012 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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Dinishte wrote:
feet: Tantra +1 -> I use Fuma. Capping haste is THE single greatest stat gain. There's way better I bet but I've had Fume forever and a half. Haste cap first!

For the most part true, but not entirely. Full AF3+2 beats 4/5 AF3+2 and Fumas, with Brown Belt.
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