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Faith+tantra+tokon+bruiser+portus ringFollow

#1 Sep 27 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
16 posts
Just curious how this stands up
#2 Sep 28 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Short answer: Faith, Tantra Gloves+2 and Bruiser's Earring are very good, but not that best options at level 95 with full H2H merits. The other 2 are not worth using.

Long answer: "A character's natural hand-to-hand damage is calculated by multiplying hand-to-hand skill by 0.11 and then adding 3." <- (From wiki) So at level 95 the base H2H skill is 396, merits are +16 and those 3 equipments add +7, +7, +3 making 429. 429 * .11 = 47.19 rounded down to 47 then remember the +3 for 50 damage. Taking away any of those pieces would lower the damage. Adding both Tokon and Portus would not increase it again and even if it did Tantra +1/2 and Epona's/Rajas/Oneiros Ring are all better choices. If you really need acc Tokon MIGHT be good as a WS only piece, but I haven't looked into it myself since I have the MKE head piece for that.

Take at look at this to see a comparison of how various neck and ear pieces rate inside and outside Abyssea (TY for that info Kine).
#3 Sep 28 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
16 posts
True, but portus+tokon would add 10. So 7+7+3+5+5 would make 439 with merits. 439*.11+3 would be 48.29 rounded to 48 +3 to 51 taking it up a tier. Does that sound right? Still don't know if that is worth taking out the rajas and using tantra head as macro.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 1:29pm by colonelcaveman
#4 Sep 28 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Re: Tokon Hachimaki -- You'd be giving up 7% haste for 1 base damage. 1 base damage hasn't been worth giving up 7% haste for since about level 25. It would only be worth using if you were miserably under cap for accuracy, since you'd also gain 16-17 accuracy out of it. And if you're under cap for accuracy, you're probably also not capping fStr, which means you're giving up ~2 fStr as well, leaving a net loss of 1 damage.

The only point in using the Tokon Hachimaki is if you desperately need the accuracy. Never use it expecting the skill to mean anything for your base damage.

Edit: miscalculated something.. >.>


Edited, Sep 28th 2011 3:06pm by Kinematics
#5 Sep 28 2011 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Sounds good, thanks
#6 Sep 28 2011 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Kinematics wrote:
The only point in using the Tokon Hachimaki is if you desperately need the accuracy.


Pretty sure you're just talking about TP here, but worth noting that Tokon is a nice WS piece for Asuran in uncapped Acc situations (say, Voidwatch) if you don't have an appropriate Anwig Salade.
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#7 Sep 28 2011 at 11:00 PM Rating: Default
16 posts
Suppose, have boob helm and shura with ws dmg+1 conserve tp+5 at disposal. Been using boob for fury.
#8 Sep 29 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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colonelcaveman wrote:
Suppose, have boob helm and shura with ws dmg+1 conserve tp+5 at disposal. Been using boob for fury.


Translated to English, I assume you're saying that you're using Genbu's Kabuto for Ascetic's Fury. And yes, Genbu is a great piece for Ascetic's because of the huge VIT mod.

But Asuran is still better outside of Abyssea, has low STR/VIT mods, and you really need to ensure you have sufficient accuracy for an 8-hit WS. In that case, Acc+12/H2H skill+5 is a very nice piece, and Conserve TP+5 never hurts on WS. Shura is indeed still a good choice, and would be better than Tokon if you're capped on Acc already, but on stuff like Voidwatch mobs there's a very good chance you're not capped. WS Acc Anwig Salade would be ideal, but not everyone has that so Tokon provides a nice alternative.

I'm really just putting forth a reasonable use for Tokon though, and a solid Asuran WS piece is about the only one.



Edited, Sep 29th 2011 4:48pm by Anza
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#9 Sep 29 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Yea I was just speaking about abyssea really. I will get anwig eventually and probably switch from shura to tokon for the uncapped stuff outside aby.
#10 Dec 17 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Am i correct that the earring no longer pushes you up a tier @99?
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#11 Dec 17 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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@99:

424 (no merits): 49.64
440 (merits): 51.4
447 (+hands): 52.17
454 (+hands+faith): 52.94
457 (+hands+faith+bruiser): 53.27
#12 Dec 17 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
herpa derpa. thanks
#13 Dec 22 2011 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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Kinematics wrote:
@99:

424 (no merits): 49.64
440 (merits): 51.4
447 (+hands): 52.17
454 (+hands+faith): 52.94
457 (+hands+faith+bruiser): 53.27


i.e., if you aren't using Bruiser, don't pair Faith/Tantra hands. You'll only want to use Faith and Bruiser if you're using both of them and hands, and that's certainly a debatable choice.

Obvious upside: base dmg =1.

But it comes with a lot of downside in:
(a) the lost stats on the earring you're giving up,
(b) the other good stats you can get on neck gear (Rancor's crit rate, Calcitrant Stole's Kick dmg and slightly more atk than Faith, etc), and
(c) Subtle Blow -10 from the earring

Personally, I'll stick with Tantra +2 hands and my usual Calcitrant/Moonshade. Other less common setups are conceivable too (e.g. Faith, some non-Tantra hands, no Bruiser). Maybe with stuff like the upcoming new Denali pieces tweaking haste builds this would be more viable, guess that remains to be seen.
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#14 Feb 03 2012 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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This is what I've been using:

input /equip main "Taurine Cesti";
input /equip waist "Black Belt";
input /equip body "Tantra Cyclas +2";
input /equip ammo "Potestas Bomblet";
input /equip back "Atheling Mantle";
input /equip legs "Tantra Hose +2";
input /equip ring1 "Epona's Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Rajas Ring";
input /equip ear1 "Kemas Earring";
input /equip ear2 "Brutal Earring";
input /equip feet "Tantra Gaiters +2";
input /equip head "Ganesha's Mask";
input /equip hands "Brego Gloves";
input /equip neck "Faith Torque";


The other option I was considering is this (only highlighting changes):

input /equip head "Tantra Crown +2";
input /equip hands "Tantra Gloves +2";
input /equip neck "Calcitrant Stole";

So the real question is which setup should produce better results. I'm not sure of the answer. Both attain +7 skill and both have 26% listed gear haste. The second will have more set procs to go with the additional KA damage from the stole, while the first offers significantly more attack (and more base HP for the times that's a concern).

Beyond that, I wonder if I should use my Melee Gaiters +2 when I'm counter-tanking or stick with Tantra +2. I have been assuming the answer is yes. (At such times, the calcitrant stole build takes a slightly larger hit on damage than the faith torque setup.)

If anyone knows the answer to which setup is better, along with why, I'd certainly appreciate hearing about it!
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#15 Feb 05 2012 at 4:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you're using Ganesha's Mask and Faith Torque, Brego Gloves (+54 str, 625 att) should barely outdo Tantra Gloves +2 (+49 str, 629 att), but Tantra+2 hands with Calcitrant (+49 str, 631 att) should be a tiny bit better than Faith + Brego.

Overall best combo seems to be Tantra +2 head, Faith Torque and Melee +2 hands (+56 str, 623 att), slightly edging out Calcitrant neck (+56 str, 625 att). Rancor Collar of course beats both other neck choices if that's an option.

With Brutal, Atheling, Epona's and /war, average hits per punch would be 1.2637; avg punches per round would then be 2.5274, against 0.27 + set bonus worth of kicks. That makes kicks about 1/10 of all attacks per round. The +5 dmg to kicks is thus worth a bit less than +1 damage to all hits.



On the Melee Gaiters +2, you certainly don't want to wear them full-time. The main question is whether to macro them in for Perfect Counter. +10 damage to each counter vs +45 damage to each kick. Assuming you average 2 counters from PC, is that likely to happen in less than the time it will take to get ~0.45 kicks on average? If so, it's worth it. If not, it's not worth it.

Given the above 0.27 kicks per round, that means you'd pass 0.45 after just two rounds, so if it takes 2 or more of -your- attack rounds for the mob to get countered twice, it's not worth macroing in the gaiters. Since you will, on average, use PC halfway between two of your own attack rounds, you're actually looking at 1.5 rounds' worth of delay, or about 6 seconds with no outside buffs.

In general, it does not appear to be a good trade. If you were using it fulltime rather than just for PC, you'd want to be getting a counter more often than once every one of -your- attack rounds just for it to keep up with the damage you could have gotten from kicks.
#16 Feb 06 2012 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
On the Melee Gaiters +2, you certainly don't want to wear them full-time.


Did we ever figure out what the Counterstance enhancement actually was, and if it required full-time wear to keep active instead of just wearing on activation?

*If* the enhancement potency is greater on the +2, I would think it'd be easier now to see how it worked.
#17 Feb 11 2012 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you're using Ganesha's Mask and Faith Torque, Brego Gloves (+54 str, 625 att) should barely outdo Tantra Gloves +2 (+49 str, 629 att), but Tantra+2 hands with Calcitrant (+49 str, 631 att) should be a tiny bit better than Faith + Brego.


With the Mask setup, my Attack is tiny bit over 700 as /war with food and no berserk or any other buffs.
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