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Q: H2H @ 90 - Some advice pleaseFollow

#1 Jun 09 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Having recently got MNK to 90, I am currently still wearing my Latent Broken Destroyers.

The obvious choice is of course Relics/Empy etc. But I do no want to invest that much time into any weapons at this stage.

My first thoughts are to obtain Taurine Cesti

So, what would you consider to be, say... the Top 5 H2H for a lvl 90 MNK?

Thanks
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#2 Jun 09 2011 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.zam.com/forum.html?fjob=11&mid=129194485114504914&page=1

    Avg gear:

Destroyers 97.845
Taipan +1 (no mods, old baseline) 102.353
Furor Cesti 105.211
Taipan +2 (no mods, new baseline) 105.697
Barracudas +2 (WS Dmg) 106.446
Barracudas +2 (15 STP) 107.995
Taurine Cesti 109.210
Taipan +2 (fire) 109.500
Taipan +2 (def down, 30% active) 109.771
Ursine +2 (OAT/high damage) 112.297

    mid grade

Destroyers 178.060
Taipan +1 (no mods, old baseline) 182.730
Taipan +2 (no mods, new baseline) 187.804
Barracudas +2 (WS Dmg) 187.747
Barracudas +2 (15 STP) 188.306
Furor Cesti 188.842
Taipan +2 (def down, 30% active) 192.376
Taipan +2 (fire) 193.528
Taurine Cesti 193.971
Revenant +2 w/A.Fury 194.304
Ursine +2 (OAT/high damage) 196.928
Spharai (90) 227.142
Revenant +2 w/V.Smite 234.515
Verethragna (90) 295.990


high end
Destroyers 245.406
Taipan +1 (no mods, old baseline) 251.139
Taipan +2 (no mods, new baseline) 257.716
Taipan +2 (def down, 30% active) 258.077
Barracudas +2 (WS Dmg) 259.175
Barracudas +2 (15 STP) 259.161
Furor Cesti 260.398
Ursine +2 (OAT/high damage) 257.104
Taipan +2 (fire) 262.787
Taurine Cesti 266.090
Revenant +2 w/A.Fury 266.245
Spharai (90) 304.109
Revenant +2 w/V.Smite 327.825
Verethragna (90) 406.036



From a post on the same page of the forum... scroll down and read next time ;)
#3 Jun 09 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Taurine will be awesome until the next level update in August.
#4 Jun 10 2011 at 2:07 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Taipan +2 (fire) 262.787
Taurine Cesti 266.090
Revenant +2 w/A.Fury 266.245
Spharai (90) 304.109
Revenant +2 w/V.Smite 327.825
Verethragna (90) 406.036


Thats interesting, guess i'll switch to Taurine for now from fire taipan

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#5 Jun 10 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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Don't do it Sand! You worked too hard on Fire Taipan to replace it for a measly 4 dps!
#6 Jun 12 2011 at 4:13 AM Rating: Good
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Its still always nice to see what a massive difference Vere has over everythingelse, 55% better than my current weapon is massive.
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#7 Jun 12 2011 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
Taipan +2 (fire) 262.787
Taurine Cesti 266.090
Revenant +2 w/A.Fury 266.245
Spharai (90) 304.109
Revenant +2 w/V.Smite 327.825
Verethragna (90) 406.036


Thats interesting, guess i'll switch to Taurine for now from fire taipan


Well, it still depends on situation and your other gear. On Kine's spreadsheet in my setup, I actually get Fire Taipan +2 slightly edging out Taurine. But let's look at it a little more:

Fire Taipan +2: DMG+29, Delay+61, STR+9, Atk+20
Taurine: DMG+28, Delay:+48, STR+6, Subtle Blow+10, Enhances Boost

Points in favor of Fire Taipan+2:
From a WS perspective, they're better than Taurine with a DMG+1/STR+3/Atk+20 advantage. So if you're not meleeing the target full time and focusing on WS (for example, not tanking an Abyssea NM or feeding it TP, but building TP with Regain and on other mobs, moving in to WS the NM), you'd probably be better off using Fire Taipans. Taurine's Boost enhancement is the wild card, giving ~5% attack bonus to Boost. If you can hit Boost every time before you WS that pulls them closer... but sometimes it can be tricky to time it just right, and even then you slow down DoT a bit just through JA use lag.

Points in favor of Taurine:
1) They're a nice piece to cap Subtle Blow for when that comes in handy. Could cap SB (50%) in many setups - say, Job Trait (+20), Taurine (+10), Tantra Crown +2 (+10), Rajas (+5), Agasaya (+5). Heed Ring and Tantra Crown +1 are in the mix of possibilities here too.

2) High crit rate (from Atma, gear, whatever) benefits Taurine a little more than it does Fire Taipans, just due to the lower delay/more chances to crit over time.

Conclusion:
They're both really close, so much so as to be practically sidegrades unless you're focusing mainly on WS and not doing much TP (Taipan+2 win), or if Subtle Blow is particularly important (Taurine win). Not really something to sweat if you can get one or the other, and situational but practically a toss-up if you have both.

The HUGE consideration if you're planning for the future though... Taipan+2 will likely get future magian trials, Taurine presumably are what they are now and won't change. In which case the next stage of Taipan+2 will leave Taurine in the dust.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 2:16am by Anza
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#8 Jun 13 2011 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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You quoted only the high end gear, and then made a big post about how it depends on the gear. If you look at what dustinfoley posted, he gave the numbers for average gear and mid grade gear as well. As you can see, as your gear gets better, Taurine Cesti gets better and surpasses Taipan Fangs +2, albeit slightly.

Sand obviously quoted the high end gear because (and I assume) he has full Empyrean +2 gear. I tossed the Taurine Cesti's I had back before I got full +2. Now I kinda wish I had held on to them, but honestly, I put a lot of work in to Fire Taipan's (did complete trial without +5 per kill weather bonus) and I'm sentimental enough to lose .5% dps for them =P

As for planning for the future, Verethragna imo. (P.S. at the time of this post I'm 13 Chloris Buds from finishing!)
#9 Jun 13 2011 at 1:57 AM Rating: Good
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xxPhyrexx wrote:
You quoted only the high end gear, and then made a big post about how it depends on the gear.


My post wasn't really about how it depends on gear (though I did mention that obviously it does vary based on gear). It's actually my whole point though, that you shouldn't just think about DoT numbers as if they are everything, because they aren't. My post discussed situational factors that might change your decision since the overall DoT is so close between the two:

Using WS for damage and not TPing on an NM? Might want to use Taipan+2.

Care more about Subtle Blow on something you're TPing on? Taurine look nice.

Considering likely future magian trials (but not up to working on Vereth/Rev Fists)? Might want to get working on Taipan+2 as opposed to sitting back and being satisfied with the Taurine Cesti that might edge them out now, but probably will be made obsolete fairly soon.

Quote:
As for planning for the future, Verethragna imo. (P.S. at the time of this post I'm 13 Chloris Buds from finishing!)


Yes, but the OP is using Destroyers and stated he isn't interested in dedicating himself to Empyrian. So kind of outside the scope here.

Congrats though - almost there!

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 3:57am by Anza
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#10 Jun 13 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
(P.S. at the time of this post I'm 13 Chloris Buds from finishing!)


:)
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#11 Jun 14 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
My post wasn't really about how it depends on gear (though I did mention that obviously it does vary based on gear). It's actually my whole point though, that you shouldn't just think about DoT numbers as if they are everything, because they aren't. My post discussed situational factors that might change your decision since the overall DoT is so close between the two:

Using WS for damage and not TPing on an NM? Might want to use Taipan+2.

Care more about Subtle Blow on something you're TPing on? Taurine look nice.

Considering likely future magian trials (but not up to working on Vereth/Rev Fists)? Might want to get working on Taipan+2 as opposed to sitting back and being satisfied with the Taurine Cesti that might edge them out now, but probably will be made obsolete fairly soon.

Yes, very good points. I agree. I think I got a little tunnel vision when responding to the majority of your post. Fire Taipan +3 and/or +4 will definitely leave Taurine Cesti in the dust. If there is an upgrade to these trial weapons in the level 95 update (which is fairly soon), then I would suggest not even wasting your time trying to acquire Taurine Cesti.
#12 Jun 16 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Also, I've been messing around with Kine's spreadsheet and even though I don't have flawless gear (only one Tantra+2 piece, no Black Belt), my gear isn't bad... and Fire Taipan+2 slightly beat Taurine in the spreadsheet for me. Even when I change some things around and add Black Belt and Tantra+2 stuff, I still get Fire Tapians beating Taurine. Probably need to add in specific BRD/COR buffs or something to change that, and honestly I don't really run around with full buffs most of the time these days. So anyone considering it, play around for yourself and see if it really does help.

Not exactly sure what "mid grade" and "high grade" are intended to mean, but I really don't think I'm using "average" gear and Fire Taipan +2 win for my TP setup:

Tantra Tathlum
Tantra Crown+1
Agasaya's Collar
Brutal
Aesir or Moonshade (Acc/Regain)
Loki's
Tantra Gloves +1
Rajas
Epona's
Atheling
Brown Belt
Tantra Hose +2
Kokugetsu Sune-Ate (Haste 3%, STR+2, Acc+2)
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#13 Jun 23 2011 at 10:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
(P.S. at the time of this post I'm 13 Chloris Buds from finishing!)

Update - 50/50
Couldn't help myself. I just had to post it lol. =D
#14 Jun 26 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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xxPhyrexx wrote:
Quote:
(P.S. at the time of this post I'm 13 Chloris Buds from finishing!)

Update - 50/50
Couldn't help myself. I just had to post it lol. =D


Congratulations!
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
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