Kick attacks (and possibly impetus?)Follow

Hmmmmmmmmm

First inclination is a crit nerf. Crit rate already caps at 95%, can't really adjust it anywhere but down. Crit damage bonus probably also toned down.

Kick attacks, dunno. Could go either way. KA has always sort of been the bastard step-child of the DA/TA crowd. Maybe someone wants to make another attempt at making Footwork relevant.

On the other hand, this means everything we know about their numbers gets thrown out the window. Time for more testing.....

I'll jump on kick attack testing whenever servers come up. I am already stationed at a fortification for Set Bonus testing, and will just drop all my KA+ sh*t, and try to get an early number. I expect KA rate to go up honestly, as while other set bonuses proc approx. 5% of all attacks, Monk's bonus ends up being around 3-3.5% since it's based off KAs and not all rounds. Also KAs are gimper than DA and TA since they can only proc once per round(Twice with Set Bonus), and can't proc on things like WSs.

^^ Completely off-topic argument from the original post. I think it would be a good discussion for a different thread, however you may need to define "gimper" before including parse data.

As for the subject at hand - "maximum level of effectiveneess" refers to what we call "cap" ... right? If so, and if they are saying it's NOT a nerf, then pretty much what they are saying is that gear/magic/JA's will allow you to exceed the 95% cap.

Otherwise, "maximum level of effectiveness" does not refer to cap, and just something else. Either way, can we get a REAL English translator please?

Well I did do some basic testing using both no shoes, and af3+1 feet with 377 H2H skill. 44+8+3+18 = 73DMG without shoes and 73+40 = 113DMG with shoes. I got the expected damage range that you would get if these were counted as 1hand weapons.

Now I would like to see about the Kick attack rate, or more to the point see if we can now kick more than twice in a round. But I only have the OAT weapon so can't see if I will get more than 2 kicks in a round.

Does that include 10% less counters?


Arguable I think. Definitely situational. The evasion boost from the agility doesn't really make a difference for most NMs. 10% counter will obviously see a much higher benefit on certain NMs (especially Chloris) but still be useless on Ironclads.

And no. I'm not forgetting about the subtle blow from agility. Did you ever find out how beneficial that was Sand?

Counter damage is typically between 2% and 5% of your total damage (not counting mobs that are immune to counter, or who almost never melee between spellcasting and TP moves). An extra 10% counter rate may increase your counter damage by perhaps 15%, so total damage gained would be around 0.3% to 0.75%.

Defensively, worst case where the evasion is actually beneficial (ie: it takes you above evasion floor) would be raising evasion rate from 5% to 17.5% (12.5% hit rate for 25 evasion for 50 agi). Adding in an approximation of raising counter rate from 60% to 70%, we can see before and after:

Before (ignoring utsusemi): 5% evasion, 60% counter. Out of 100 swings the mob makes, 95 get past evasion, and then 38 get past counter. So base comparison is 38% of all attacks land.

After: 17.5% evasion, 70% counter. Out of 100 swings the mob makes, 82.5 get past evasion, and then 24.75 get past counter.

Overall melee damage reduced by about 35%.

If you actually had a positive amount of evasion to start with (say, 25%), number of landed hits would go from 30 to 18.75, or a 37.5% reduction. Not much of an increase. And by the way, I'd say that for most NMs that actually melee, the evasion is likely to be at least somewhat useful for mnk. We're not thf/dnc/nin evasive, but we can still avoid a fair bit, and aren't just a war-like punching bag.

If the mob is accurate enough to still hit you for capped accuracy, then only the counter matters. In that case it would reduce your melee damage taken by 25%.

In addition it can reduce TP given to the mob by 25% (well, 25% of the amount it would get at dAgi=0; dAgi is probably already positive, though, so the percentage reduction could be as high as 33%, but may also drop down to maybe 20% if you're pushing into the cap with cruor buffs).

So for mobs without regain it can reduce melee damage taken by 25%-35%, and can reduce the number of TP moves (and thus damage taken from TP moves) by 25%-33% as well. Overall rough number would be that it reduces your total damage taken by about 25%-30%, which is pretty substantial.


In general, however, the mobs that are actually a threat are those that spam spells and TP moves (lots of regain), for which evasion and counter are generally useless. In that case, the extra HP of SS is actually a better survival buff, and you get a bit more damage out of it anyway.

If only monks could use Yonin and wield katanas. That would be sweet! =P



95% hit cap... so techncially that final number is about 32.3%


For typical mobs that don't cast any spells at all, I would agree with this "rough number." Otherwise it would be better to say that it reduces your total PHYSICAL damage taken by 25-30%...


Yes! One of the biggest detriments to survivability is a strong, uninterrupted spell immediately followed by a strong TP move. How many tank deaths are from plain melee hits?