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Roaring Laughter vs Gnarled HornFollow

#1 Apr 21 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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A few questions.

1) Does Roaring Laughter actually give more counter rate to monks than Gnarled Horn?

2) When using Razed Ruins, do monks actually get the full benefit of 20% crit hit rate from GH? For example, does RR put us 10% away from the crit hit cap, so that GH only gives us 10%?

3) Btw, what is the crit hit rate cap?

4) 50 agility - ok so +25 evasion skill is useless to monk and arguably detrimental, but how much subtle blow does 50 agi give? With Agasaya's, Raja's, AF3+2 Helm, etc... are we not subtle blow capped?

5) Btw, what is the subtle blow cap? And, if you are subtle blow capped, does Chi-blast or Yurin: Ichi even give a benefit?

6) If you don't have melee gaiters for the 10% counter with counterstance, would using both Roaring Laughter AND GH be a viable counter-tanking atma build? Assuming you keep RR, would the damage loss from VV/Apocalypse be too detrimental to gain the extra counter rate?

Sorry, my few questions turned in to a few more. Just some things I've been curious about.

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 6:24pm by xxPhyrexx
#2 Apr 21 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
1) Does Roaring Laughter actually give more counter rate to monks than Gnarled Horn?

2) When using Razed Ruins, do monks actually get the full benefit of 20% crit hit rate from GH? For example, does RR put us 10% away from the crit hit cap, so that GH only gives us 10%?

3) Btw, what is the crit hit rate cap?

4) 50 agility - ok so +25 evasion skill is useless to monk and arguably detrimental, but how much subtle blow does 50 agi give? With Agasaya's, Raja's, AF3+2 Helm, etc... are we not subtle blow capped?

5) Btw, what is the subtle blow cap? And, if you are subtle blow capped, does Chi-blast or Yurin: Ichi even give a benefit?

6) If you don't have melee gaiters for the 10% counter with counterstance, would using both Roaring Laughter AND GH be a viable counter-tanking atma build? Assuming you keep RR, would the damage loss from VV/Apocalypse be too detrimental to gain the extra counter rate?


1) Both should be 10%.

2) Yes, you get the full benefit. Max innate: 20%. Max merits: 4% (soon to be 5%). RR: 30% (total 54%-55%). GH: 20% (total: 74%-75%). You still have room to add another crit atma like Dark Depths for +20% more, putting you near or at the 95% cap.

3) 95%

4) Agi gives evasion, not evasion skill, though both have the same effect. 'Detrimental' is arguable.

Agi does not give any Subtle Blow (it is an entirely separate multiplier), and is not impacted by the SB cap. +50 Agi is -25% TP given (I think.. bah, can't find confirmation of the actual formula offhand) unless you're hitting the dAgi cap.

Yes, you can hit the Subtle Blow cap without too much effort: Trait (20), Rajas (5), Heed (7), Agasaya (5), Black Belt (5), Tantra Crown +2 (10) puts you at 52 (2 over cap) Subtle Blow. Various other combinations can also be used, not even counting Auspice.

5) +50 Subtle Blow is the cap. Yes, Penance and Yurin: Ichi still have an effect; they are a separate effect than Subtle Blow, and also separate from Agi.

6) Technically viable. Whether it's worth doing is more difficult to judge.
#3 Apr 22 2011 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1) Both should be 10%.

Ok so the counter rate: "Major" on Roaring Laughter is a another typo by SE I guess.

Quote:
Agi gives evasion, not evasion skill, though both have the same effect. 'Detrimental' is arguable.

I thought I had read that 2 AGI = 1 evasion skill which is about 0.98 evasion or something like that. But yeah I guess it's pretty much the same thing either way. And yeah, I did say that +evasion was "arguably" detrimental =P

Does the Penance effect, from Chi Blast, stack with the Yurin: Ichi effect?
#4 Apr 22 2011 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Does the Penance effect, from Chi Blast, stack with the Yurin: Ichi effect?


My guess would be no. They both inflict the status "Inhibit TP"
#5 Apr 22 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nah, tried it out with a Ninja friend. Yurin is actually more potent than Penance and overwrites it. Tested this by having him Yurin a mob while I Chi Blasted it right after, and the opposite way around. In both cases, he got the 'Inhibit TP effect wears off,' while I never got a message.
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#6 Apr 22 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Are there numbers for how strong Yurin is? Just because it overwrites Penance doesn't mean it's more potent.
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#7 Apr 22 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yurin is actually more potent than Penance and overwrites it. Tested this by having him Yurin a mob while I Chi Blasted it right after, and the opposite way around. In both cases, he got the 'Inhibit TP effect wears off,' while I never got a message.

I don't see how that test has anything to do with potency, but it was a good test for seeing that
1) they don't stack
2) Yurin overwrites Penance
3) Penance does not overwrite Yurin

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 3:20pm by xxPhyrexx
#8 Apr 22 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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From what I remember of initial testing, Yurin is -10% TP compared to Penance's -25% TP. Why Yurin would then overwrite Penance, I don't know.

Edit: Actually, I could guess. Yurin's duration is 3 minutes compared to Penance's 20 to 100 seconds. Yurin lasts longer, therefore it wins.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 5:29pm by Kinematics
#9 Apr 25 2011 at 3:28 AM Rating: Default
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if you have a nin and a mnk in the party i would suggest that team up and mnk opens fight w/ chi blast and when they get the message have the nin drop there spell and let the mnk know when it wears mnk's chi blast should be up again if the mobs still alive
#10 Apr 26 2011 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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From what I remember of initial testing, Yurin is -10% TP compared to Penance's -25% TP. Why Yurin would then overwrite Penance, I don't know.

Edit: Actually, I could guess. Yurin's duration is 3 minutes compared to Penance's 20 to 100 seconds. Yurin lasts longer, therefore it wins.


Yurin's duration seems to be either 1min:30 or 3mins, I obviously only use it on NM's and solo-ing on nin I've noticed it alot more as I use Yurin immediately after Myoshu (then watching it wear off as Myoshu is only half way through its duration etc). On Reffited chariot it usually lasts 3mins but I've had a couple of 1min 30 durations. On Adamastor, Pantagruel, Grandgousier, and Briareus Yurin just lasts 1min 30 for me.
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