Using next-to-last stage of my Cat's Claws (d+20, dl+66, -10% def down) on an xp party on Seaboard Vultures in Misareaux. Did not use Footwork in this, since I was messing around with my -def weapons.
Data from the birds after xp ring wore off and our sync went up to lvl 77:
118 xp birds:
Motenten 53527 34.49 % 67/0 100.00 % 332/1141 798.91
- Ascetic's Fury 573 1.07 % 1/0 100.00 % 573/573 573.00
- Asuran Fists 36116 67.47 % 42/0 100.00 % 567/1141 859.90
- Tornado Kick 16838 31.46 % 24/0 100.00 % 332/951 701.58
133 xp birds:
Motenten 51972 34.10 % 70/0 100.00 % 447/1094 742.46
- Asuran Fists 30923 59.50 % 39/0 100.00 % 454/1094 792.90
- Dragon Kick 710 1.37 % 1/0 100.00 % 710/710 710.00
- Tornado Kick 20339 39.13 % 30/0 100.00 % 447/878 677.97
So Asuran was doing 17% to 22.5% more damage on average (though the gear I have is more focused on Asuran than Tornado). There's going to be a moderate bit of variance due to inconsistant use of Dia (rdm was stressed for MP at times, and lots of people went afk at one time or another), and the def down AE of my cat's claws (very nice improvement in damage when they proc'd). Unfortunately my Buffs By Time plugin doesn't separate out out weaponskills for comparing with Dia on vs off, so I'm not sure how much of the difference is due to that. Probably should update that.
I tended towards Asuran when I wasn't doing a chain since it's in my default weaponskill macro slot. In any case, this gives another data point in comparing the two weaponskills, so that we can probably expect Asuran to be between even and 20% better than Tornado when using normal H2H. More mod testing and such needs to be done to help verify the numeric side.
Also found a handy bit of its skillchain properties: Tornado Kick > Gekko is Fragmentation (I normally don't think about Gekko's secondary property of Reverberation). We were using that for our blm to burst on, alternating between Darkness and Fragmentation so recast timers wouldn't be a problem, and giving me a good number of uses to compare on. The 50% damage bonus for magic bursts was pretty impressive; Blizzard 4 and Thunder 4 doing ~1800 each, Burst II doing over 2500 when MB'd. Useful since the Seaboard Vultures have better than 6k HP each, compared to the ~4900 of Greater Colibri.
While holding TP for skillchains/magic bursts is usually considered wasteful, I do wonder about it now. We did it in this party just because it was fun, but more number-crunching needs to be done to see about its efficiency.
Holding TP to skillchain essentially robs you of more weaponskill damage down the line. The question is, how much damage are you losing, and how much are you gaining in exchange?
In the above party, typical ws numbers were in the 600 range when no debuffs were on, 800 range when either Dia III or the Cat's Claws def down was on, and 1000 range when both were on (very rough approximations). The sam was putting up somewhat similar numbers. Using 800 as the baseline.
Bliz 4/Thunder 4 were doing ~1200 damage when not burst, so were gaining about 600 damage from magic bursting. Burst II was gaining 1000 damage on the burst (1667 > 2662 on 133's, 1407 > 2503 on 118s; no idea why lower damage on the lower level birds).
The skillchain damage is much more tentative, since gear swaps usually cause the game to not show the damage. I have 7 Darkness chains averaging 615 each, and 9 Fragmentation chains averaging 342 each. Also one Light chain at the end of a 3-part for 1553. Fun.
So from this, we can consider the skillchain plus magic burst to have generated an additional 950 to 1350 damage. That's the equivalent of 120-170 TP (so holding up to 220-270 TP before skillchain), if one of the DDs had to hold onto TP waiting for the other, without considering however much additional damage the weaponskill itself did with the higher TP. Alternatively, both of them could have held to 60-80 TP over 100 and it would still balance out.
If you were to setup a party with 2 DD + blm with the intent of SC+MB, it seems like you'd want to work it such that the blm could nuke down the last 10% of the mob rather than using a weaponskill to finish it off (thus reduce amount of held TP while still allowing for skillchains), and then work together good skillchain + burst for general use. A single burst from the blm could do almost 1/3 of the mob's damage (~1800 out of ~6000 HP for the vultures).
Tornado Kick can handle both the opening and closing position. Tornado > Gekko / Tornado > Raging Rush / Tornado > SlugWinder do Fragmentation (burst Thunder IV); Tornado > Penta Thrust does Gravitation (burst Stone V); Asuran Fists > Tornado does Fusion (burst Fire IV); Tornado > Tornado and Guillotine > Tornado do Impaction (burst Thunder IV). Substitute AMII for any of the above where appropriate. The only real weak mix is pairing with a drg, since TK doesn't chain with Drakesbane at all; but you can do Tornado > Sonic Thrust for Scission, and burst Stone V.
In other words, there's plenty of options to choose from when chaining. The mobs that we're fighting now seems to have notably more HP than our little pink friends, so the extra damage from SC+MB can reduce fight times without being excessive overkill.
In a way, this actually shows a bit of foresight into the needs of the skillchain properties of Tornado Kick. If you're using the +0 dmg OAT/OA2-3 weapons you're pretty much restricted to TK as your weaponskill (or maybe an occasional Dragon Kick). If skillchains are indeed going to be that much of a benefit and you're only using one weaponskill, you need that weaponskill to be fairly flexible.
Anyway, thoughts? Edited, Jun 27th 2010 8:53pm by Kinematics