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#27 Jun 11 2011 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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This is why I said earlier in the thread that merits are subjective to whoever is using them.

It's not so clear cut when you compare the airy concept of value between AS and AC. One increases your damage on use (assuming that you weren't going to triple attack anyway, something worth considering in abyssea) and the other is a utility that provides a somewhat accurate dispel and infrequently a buff. They each measure their own worth differently as well.

AS shines more when you're solo or don't have a dispel, e.g. snatching the ice spikes off an enemy before you even engage it (I find the buff steal to be too infrequent to factor in at 1/5). It's more notable on enemies that don't have an item up for stealing of course, but it's really useable anytime something is buffed.

AC is a strictly damage enhancing tool, and therefore it's effect is much easier to calculate directly. Yet it has it's own considerations: the timer limits its potential on any single encounter, and it's difficult to say where a reduced recast would actually have significant effect on whatever situation you're in. On top of that, as previously mentioned with abyssea triple attack rates, it could be considered to have no effect from a math standpoint if the attack was to proc triple already. Triplus, AoA, AF3+2 head and merits place you at 31%, more if you use AaO, so it's certainly more than negligable in an abyssea setting.

The point is that without examining the circumstances, I don't think saying that the lowered recast on AC is better than the entireity of AS is meaningful at all. A case could be made for both, and I don't believe one is definitively better than the other in a general case.

Everything above concerns 1/5 AS vs. not meriting it at all in favor of 5/5 AC, for clarity

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 2:41am by TheBadShadow
#28 Jun 11 2011 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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Aura Steal is also on a five minute timer for what any good mage can do every 5 seconds. No, I don't find absorbing ice spikes any more useful than just dispelling it because I try to avoid being hit anyway and again, the paralyze comes in a better form. (Using paralyze arrows is better even if you don't have a mage)Honestly you have a dispel on a 5 minute timer that typically is used for occasionally absorbing something odd for sh*ts and giggles.

Yes AC isn't kilometers ahead of AS now but it's still miles ahead. And as it turns out, the dev team has said there will be new content taking place of old, and it won't be abyssea, IE: No wtf 35% triple attack rate.

The only time I ever really used aura steal consistently was for flayers in nyzul isle, as dark based dispel sucked on them at 75 and our static had no BRD.

But my friends also don't sub WHM on BLM or BLM on WHM or SMN on WHM or whatever some people use apparently. I thought the general consensus was that your mage should be /SCH if not for exact reasons as having more useful spells, but for more casting/recast/MP.

EDIT: @TheBadShadow - For clarification do you mean 5/5 aura steal or 1/5? I think every THF agrees 1/5 aura steal isn't a bad thing to have. The major reason THFs don't generally condone 5/5 aura steal is it's way too full of X factors.

Does the mob have a stealable item? If yes, points docked.
Does the mob even have buffs? If no, points docked.
Does the mob have a buff that would really benefit your dps (Be it through straight damage increase or having to swap into that eva set less or whatever)? If no, points docked.
Will the mob resist aura steal? If it does, null.
Is the mob just going to reapply it in 5 seconds (We all can agree bones just freaking LOVE ice spikes I'm sure)? If so, points docked.
Did the mob apply any other worthless buffs you could steal instead of the one you want? (RDM mobs casting barspell, etc)

Etc, etc. Assassin's Charge has pretty much one. Would I have triple attacked anyway? If yes, it's null.

Sure, in abyssea, the most unfavorable situation the JA has ever seen, it's floating at a 65% success. You can't say that about AS, however.

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 1:16am by ElvaanTHF
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#29 Jun 11 2011 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see anyone stating you should 5/5 Aura Steal. My comment was about having 0/5 Aura Steal, which is simply foolish. You seriously always have a dispel that's able to get the spell off as soon as you can with an instant attack?

Even if I'm with a WHM/SCH, it still requires them to switch to Dark Arts and use Addendum:Black to use Dispel. When I can just take it off instantly, before any of my swings get negated/hurt/reflected by evasion/defense/absorb/spike effects.

In the two months since I've been back I've never been in a group with a scholar and the only WHM's have been /blm for D2 utility and BLM's have been /whm for Haste. The only typically rdm guy I've done stuff with usually comes as BLM, and while he is /rdm during that, he's got long casting spells and cannot always react instantly. Whereas with Aura Steal, I can.

The utility of 1/5 Aura Steal is simply too great to give up for such a minor upgrade of 4/5 to 5/5 *** Charge.
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#30 Jun 11 2011 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
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I have honestly stopped caring about maxing damage at ALL costs. Damage is rediculously easy to come by with abyssea in vogue and all 75 content laughable from the DD perspective.

Were not talking about no AC vs AS. Were talking about going from 5 min to 2.5 min on AC vs ACCESS to a dispel move. Its really not much of a sacrifice when we can push out obscene amounts of damage as it is.

Personally, I just gave up on feint and dropped it to 4/5 and keep AC at 5/5 and AS at 1/5. When all 75 content is auto acc capped and all but Thf NMs and the highest level NMs in the game, i just dont use it except onthose very rare targets. 2min is just not really needed. Just like the dif between 5 and 7.5 min AC is nominal in actual total damage output, and just like the absorb is exceptionally minor.

All 3 of these are EXCELLENT abilities to simply have unlocked. They are all 1 point wonder skills. So long as you have them all unlocked, which one you shave the last min or 2 off between AC or Feint really doesnt matter. Just have access to all 3.
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#31 Jun 11 2011 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
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@Eagle I took you saying you never used AC as saying it was worthless, my bad. I wouldn't 4/5 an ability I never used. I generally pop AC more than AS simply because of the fact someone has **** that needs to be dispelled while I'm waiting on my 5 minute timer, whereas since I'm using SA/TA with a WS anyway, I might as well get the most usage out of AC taking advantage of the 1 second JA pause anyway.
I apologize for the misunderstanding then.

@Banalty I've already mentioned my feelings on feint, but that's a definite playstyle thing. Staff with mage atma is hard for my wife to proc on WHM, or my friend on BLM, even with capped skill. I never roll with a group who has a high skill in everything, I'm always in a group where if we want red/blue, it's almost always the skill that's not dagger/club and I pop feint a good majority of fights I'm trying to proc anything not yellow. Not unlocking feint/as/ac is a nono agreed.
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#32 Jun 12 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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I use 5/5 Feint and 5/5 Aura Steal.

When I'm playing Thf, it is usually either solo for farming something or in Abyssea (often farming something in Abyssea, lol). With 5/5 AS, I get 100% steal of the buff if I don't steal an item (which is seldom because I don't have the inventory room anymore to carry my stealing gear). This is particularly good for getting long duration buffs like protect and shell. Stealing spikes is nice but often, the mob just puts it up again anyway (spikes spells are high on the list for recast on the Mob's AI).

I don't understand the obsession with marginal increases in dmg output. In abyssea, if I'm not TA'ing onto our Nin, then I'm the one tanking as it is without the need for additional dmg boost. This was the case even when I had 5/5 -Enm merits (which I had for rng durability). Even more now that I've removed those merits and switched them to spell interrupt down (which helps for Utsusemi recast interruption).

It's an easy choice for me.

I only wish, as do many others, that AS and Steal were on separate timers (and that AS had a much shorter recast time to make it a more usable dispelling tool).

Now, SE needs to remove more of the restrictions on job specific group combo totals, like they did with other merit categories. I might consider putting merits into AC if that were the case.

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 9:19am by Lokithor
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#33 Jun 12 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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An ability that guarantees something you already have a minimum of a 35% chance of doing? Sounds worthless to me. (´・ω・`) In my opinion 1-4 merits into *** charge is all personal play style, but you should never go 5/5 and give up access to aura steal.

Also, I'm considering meriting flee instead of trick attack or ta/sa. lol

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 10:57am by Deadgye
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#34 Jun 12 2011 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
You're a fool..


lol.

Quote:
I get far more usage out of Aura Steal than assassin's charge. Far more, like, far far more, I hardly even use Assassin's charge


I ride the assassin's charge timer as it becomes available, so I use it all the time. I much prefer it to Aurasteal. I also use RR/GH/SS, so the effect is noticable.

Not to mention that a triple attack can proc on both hands. Forcing it on the first hit increases the chances nicely of that happening.

I hate Aurasteal. I love the idea of it, but I really really really hate the ability. I had it merited 5/5 a few months to give it a chance. I tried to use it on everything that I could and find ways for it to be useful. I didn't find it to be very meangingful. Being able to dispel something only once every 5 minutes is pretty "meh."

It really came down to 4/5 Assassin's Charge 1/5 Aurasteal or 5/5 Assassin's Charge. I like having Assassin's Charge on a 5 minute timer better than having 1/5 in Aurasteal.
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#35 Jun 12 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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You cannot TA from both hands while using Evisceration. It's a 5-hit ws, 6 while dual wielding and a triple attack makes it an 8-hit, which is the cap (unless this has changed). So one TA proc is possible in one of our weaponskills used in Abyssea.

I love when people argue against me like they're right while making clearly incorrect statements about game mechanics.
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#36 Jun 12 2011 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
You cannot TA from both hands while using Evisceration. It's a 5-hit ws, 6 while dual wielding and a triple attack makes it an 8-hit, which is the cap (unless this has changed). So one TA proc is possible in one of our weaponskills used in Abyssea.

I love when people argue against me like they're right while making clearly incorrect statements about game mechanics.


lol you are cute.

Also, Rudra's Storm.
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#37 Jun 12 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Even still, you're saying 1-1.5k damage (that takes what, 5-10s to deal?) every 2.5min is worth more than an instant dispel every 5min. And it's only 1-1.5k damage if you're very, very geared and TA wasn't going to proc anyway. And if you're very, very geared, 1-1.5k damage comes so very quickly to you.

You're arguing a negligible amount of damage is better than an entire point of utility, which is silly at best.
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#38 Jun 12 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Even still, you're saying 1-1.5k damage every 2.5min is worth more than an instant dispel every 5min


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying "this is what you should do and you're a fool if you don't." I'm saying this is what I like best.

Mostly because the damage from AC is constant, and useful every time its recast is up. AS is not. It is dependant on the mob using a dispellable buff. If I am fighting an NM and dispelling is necessary, I'm going to have a dispeller with me.

I find the exact opposite to be true. I don't find a lot of situations where Aurasteal is really all that useful. Especially if the monster has an item to steal and you than you have the added chance to get that instead of your dispel. Which is why I prefer 5/5 Assassin's Charge.

I've tried lots of different combinations of group 2 and rearranged them many many times. I've done 4/5 AC and 1/5 AS but and didn't like it, so I switched back to my current configuration.

Quote:
You're arguing a negligible amount of damage is better than an entire point of utility, which is silly at best.


lol what is even more silly is to act like such a complete unprovoked douchebag for no real reason.

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 11:09pm by Nebo1

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 11:11pm by Nebo1
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#39 Jun 12 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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This is rather tame compared to old me, and how these forums were a few years back (where I wasn't even the biggest ****).

There are all sorts of things that gives themselves buffs that aren't seen as "important" to dispel. Crabs have defense buffs which don't get dispelled instantly, buffalos have buffs, all SORTS of creatures have buffs that they will have up that can and will effect damage but since they don't kill you, rarely get dispelled that quickly. Spike spells, defense buffs, evasion buffs, etc. are used by at least 1/3 of the creatures in the game.

Fyi, if a mob uses an evasion boost move and you then miss just two attacks before someone gets a dispel off, that's 300-600 damage lost (not including 10tp!) and basically half of an AC.
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#40 Jun 12 2011 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Spike spells, defense buffs, evasion buffs, etc. are used by at least 1/3 of the creatures in the game.....

....Fyi, if a mob uses an evasion boost move and you then miss just two attacks before someone gets a dispel off, that's 300-600 damage lost (not including 10tp!) and basically half of an AC.


Which, even by your numbers here, makes it uselss 2/3 of the time?

Hmm what to do with defensive buffs? If only we had some sort of way to remove those and grant a defense down status at the same time?

Evasion buffs? If only we had some amazingly powerful evasion down ability on a 2 minute timer to deal with those?


You are right. Aurasteal is the best thing ever!!!

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 1:45am by Nebo1
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#41 Jun 12 2011 at 11:51 PM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
An ability that guarantees something you already have a minimum of a 35% chance of doing? Sounds worthless to me. (´・ω・`) In my opinion 1-4 merits into *** charge is all personal play style, but you should never go 5/5 and give up access to aura steal.

Also, I'm considering meriting flee instead of trick attack or ta/sa. lol

Edited, Jun 12th 2011 10:57am by Deadgye


Do it, you'll never look back. At the least it's much easier to feel the benefit than the reduced sa/ta timer, which is what counts for me. But idk, I just love running around faster
#42 Jun 13 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:
SirEaglestrike wrote:
Spike spells, defense buffs, evasion buffs, etc. are used by at least 1/3 of the creatures in the game.....

....Fyi, if a mob uses an evasion boost move and you then miss just two attacks before someone gets a dispel off, that's 300-600 damage lost (not including 10tp!) and basically half of an AC.


Which, even by your numbers here, makes it uselss 2/3 of the time?

Hmm what to do with defensive buffs? If only we had some sort of way to remove those and grant a defense down status at the same time?

Evasion buffs? If only we had some amazingly powerful evasion down ability on a 2 minute timer to deal with those?


You are right. Aurasteal is the best thing ever!!!

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 1:45am by Nebo1


Despoil has had a low success rate at best for me thus far, where Aura Steal is very accurate. Feint still requires an initial landing, which after an evasion boost may not happen for a bit, thus making aura steal still fully useful in such a situation. Keep trying.
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#43 Jun 13 2011 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Despoil has had a low success rate at best for me thus far, where Aura Steal is very accurate.


What doess Despoil have to do with anything?

Quote:
Feint still requires an initial landing, which after an evasion boost may not happen for a bit, thus making aura steal still fully useful in such a situation.


Stack with SA or TA to make it 100%? Pop Conspirator? Swap to an ACC set?

Quote:
Keep trying


lol. Keep that sense of humor.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 1:51pm by Nebo1
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#44 Jun 13 2011 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, I see. You want to say you should be using acid bolts and give up raider's boomerang. Interesting, not sure it's worth the effort seeing how it likely requires even more effort to land those bolts than before with our awesome marksmanship skill. My accuracy is fine with daggers but I know it's not capped on everything and pre-merits there's a 40 skill (20% hit rate) difference and RR gives 25 acc that doesn't effect bolts so there's a 32.5% hit rate difference between daggers and xbow. I can't say for sure whether acid bolts are really worth it. And anyway, in any situation you need the defense down you'd bring a ranger to always have it up.

I'm almost always tanking, SA is iffy at best, TA still requires extra movement IF there's another melee with me and I've done plenty of duo/trioing with me as only melee that's around. So still not instant.
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#45 Jun 13 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Oh, I see. You want to say you should be using acid bolts and give up raider's boomerang. Interesting, not sure it's worth the effort seeing how it likely requires even more effort to land those bolts than before with our awesome marksmanship skill.


It's actually very easy. Cruor Buffs, GH, etc. Even in the abscence of those things, THF has enough racc gear to land and proc them on anything that isn't wind resistant. (Certainly anything with a defense buff that you'd want to Aurasteal)


Quote:
I can't say for sure whether acid bolts are really worth it.


I can. They are. Any fight you can land them on benefits more form them than Raider's Boomerang.


Quote:
And anyway, in any situation you need the defense down you'd bring a ranger to always have it up.


As in....any fight, where the goal is to kill the monster?

Quote:
I'm almost always tanking, SA is iffy at best, TA still requires extra movement IF there's another melee with me and I've done plenty of duo/trioing with me as only melee that's around. So still not instant.


Still more useful. Still really makes Aurasteal less relevant for dispelling evasion buffs. Still on a lower recast.

The point here is that most of the things you are saying that Aurasteal is so useful for, we have other (better) answers for. Or there is going to be a dispeller there to deal with them.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 10:47am by Nebo1
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#46 Jun 13 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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You're an idiot if you get rid of Aura Steal completely just to reduce *** Charge another 2.5 minutes. Let's look at this from a logical perspective. First off you're only using it on weapon skills because it's worthless for regular attack rounds.

Take a look at the weapon skills you're using. Rudra's Storm and Evisceration. If you're using evisceration then only one triple attack can proc. You have a ~35% proc rate already and at least two chances for it to proc. This results in at least a ~58% chance of *** Charge being completely worthless.

Therefore it would be smart to only use it on Rudra's Storm. And you're giving up the ability to dispel any buff so that you can guarantee a TA proc on only Rudra's Storm every 5 minutes instead of every 7.5 minutes? Something that's still going to be useless at least ~23% of the time. The benefit of having an instant dispel in alliance, party, lowman, and solo situations vastly outweighs the additional damage granted by being able to use *** Charge every 5 minutes instead of every 7.5 minutes.

Also, Raider's Boomerang > Ziskas in non solo* situations. Honestly if you want to go 5/5 *** Charge that bad then you're better off going 4/5 Feint and 1/5 Aura Steal.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 8:30am by Deadgye
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#47 Jun 13 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Also, Raider's Boomerang > Ziskas in non solo* situations


I disagree. Even in group scenarios acid bolts are nice to have, and the defense down effect never stopped overwriting Cocoon and Scissor Guard either. It probably depends on what you're doing, but acid bolts land on most abyssea NM's and even most of the mega bosses (glav, dragua, itza, creoin-croin, bhukis.... lots lots more). It's far more effective to knock a zone bosses defense down by 12.5% for the whole group than it is to bolster dual wield by 3%, and if you're still trying to proc weakness and not ready to finish the mob just yet this is even more true because you'll be holding back your full strength. I use raider's rang too of course, particularly if I'm in an exp setting and my group is just zerging trash mobs, but both still have their uses and ziska's is not inferior in every group setting.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 8:56am by Melphina
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#48 Jun 13 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Deadgye wrote:
You're an idiot if you get rid of Aura Steal completely just to reduce *** Charge another 2.5 minutes.


lol. I've already said this, but I'll repeat it. I've even had Aurasteal merited 5/5 for several months at one point. It is nowhere near as useful in practice as you are trying to make it out to be. Not even close.

Quote:
And you're giving up the ability to dispel any buff


Quite right. Because any time a monster has a debuff that NEEDS dispelling, you're not going to be like "Oh guys its cool, I got this. I merited Aurasteal, we're good for dispel." NO. I'ts on a 5 minute timer, you'll use it once and the mob will buff itself again 5-10 seconds later and you'll be sitting with your thumb up your *** for 4:50 until you can use it again.

For these situations, it is functionally useless. You are going to have a dispeller with you.

As was pointed out earlier, for performance effecting buffs, like evasion boost and defense boost. We have other (better) answers for those, with more utility and much lower recast that lolAurasteal.

Quote:
Also, Raider's Boomerang > Ziskas in non solo* situations.


You think 3% DW for you is better than a 12.5% defense down effect (that stacks with Dia, box step, etc.) for your entire alliance in a group setting and you have the balls to call me an idiot? lol

Quote:
Honestly if you want to go 5/5 *** Charge that bad then you're better off going 4/5 Feint and 1/5 Aura Steal.


Nah, I like having feint on a 2 minute timer. Although I did try this configuration for a bit as well, I didn't like it.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 1:44pm by Nebo1
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#49 Jun 13 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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I went 5/5 feint and 5/5 *** charge too because I don't think aura steal or ambush have much practical utility. Aura steal LOOKS good on paper, but the flaws have already been mentioned. They boil down to

1:) Mobs that can buff themselves will continue applying those buffs even after you dispel it until they die
2:) The steal timer is a **** long recast and can be interfered with by taking items
3:) Mobs that can buff themselves often have a LOT of buffs to choose from, and you only dispel one. You will often hit the WRONG buff. Ex.... "magician of doom casts dread spikes" --> Aura steal. Congratulations, you stole the mobs protect IV (which you already have).
4:) Most mobs buffs aren't important enough to care about. If its a weak mob its going to die in several seconds anyway, and if its a boss mob with a nasty buff you should have a real dispeller, IE a mage. Otherwise you're kinda screwed even if your aura steal does hit the mark because you're fighting a hard mob without an actual mage.


Its cute to be able to take a Phaubos shock spikes off, but once that phaubo is dead you can't do it again for a long time and he probably reapplied it shortly after it was gone anyway. Dispelling mobs never lasts.... that's why you have to KEEP dispelling them. And aura steal just isn't capable of doing that in a practical manner.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 1:38pm by Melphina
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#50 Jun 13 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Melphina wrote:

1:) Mobs that can buff themselves will continue applying those buffs even after you dispel it until they die
2:) The steal timer is a **** long recast and can be interfered with by taking items
3:) Mobs that can buff themselves often have a LOT of buffs to choose from, and you only dispel one. You will often hit the WRONG buff. Ex.... "magician of doom casts dread spikes" --> Aura steal. Congratulations, you stole the mobs protect IV (which you already have).
4:) Most mobs buffs aren't important enough to care about. If its a weak mob its going to die in several seconds anyway, and if its a boss mob with a nasty buff you should have a real dispeller, IE a mage. Otherwise you're kinda screwed even if your aura steal does hit the mark because you're fighting a hard mob without an actual mage.


1) You play this game enough to know that mobs do NOT always recast things. If you're fighting an Ice creature he has multiple spells he can cast (Ice Spikes, Blizzaga, Blizzard, maybe Freeze, paralyze, etc.) and there is a cooldown between when he casts these spells. So he may only cast Ice Spikes once every couple minutes (which could be an entire fight).

The other buffs are TP moves typically and mobs almost always have 3-5 TP moves. In Abyssea mobs are not often spamming TP moves and when they do use these moves there is a solid wait time in between them.

2) Everything in FFXI is slow. A 5min timer is an ability you NEVER use in WoW because of how fast combat is. In FFXI a 5min timer is still every few mobs, if you're fighting an NM over and over you may even get to use that 5min timer once per NM. And honestly, it's silly you're talking about a 5min timer being "too long" when the point you're spending is only making the other ability a 5min timer, lol. Also, NM's RARELY have items to steal and in fact, most mobs do not have items to steal, it's hardly an issue.

3) In such a case you either need a dispeller and you're still helping them out, OR you just removed 65(?) defense from the creature, I do believe that's more than an acid bolt does, hrm.

4) Correct! If it's a weak mob it's GOING TO DIE WITH OR WITHOUT TRIPLE ATTACK ON THAT WS! If it's a nasty mob chances are that mage is doing something else. Casting a heal, a buff, a different debuff, trying to proc yellow, etc. You don't always have a mage sitting there WAITING for a dispel. Everyone seems to be under the impression that mages sit there waiting to dispel as if the mob is about to Gates of Hades and it needs to be stunned. Lol.

Aura steal is an instant move that you lose NOTHING for using at the time and gives you a solid boost in situational utility, one thing that has always been one of the perks of playing a thief.

I mean come on people, I've always been outspoken about THF's being DD's and all, but there are some things worth far more than damage.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 2:08pm by SirEaglestrike
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#51 Jun 13 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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SES wrote:
3) In such a case you either need a dispeller and you're still helping them out, OR you just removed 65(?) defense from the creature, I do believe that's more than an acid bolt does, hrm.


That's like the 3rd thing in this thread you've said about acid bolts that leads me to believe you don't know how they even work.

The acid bolt effect REMOVES a defensive buff and APPLIES a defensive debuff. It overwrites. So it removes the 65 (whatever) defense and then some. They can be used as often as needed. Given using aura steal vs. an acid bolt for the case of a defensive boost, you would be better served using an acid bolt (subject to terms and conditions).
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