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THF MeritsFollow

#1 May 30 2011 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello all I finally got around to lvling thf and really like it now that its @ 90 i was wondering what are the best things to merit. Any and all help/explanations are appreciated. Thanks,
Belaal
#2 May 30 2011 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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5/5 Triple Attack before any other Thief merits, for obvious damage dealing reasons.

After that, the rest of the merits in groups 1 and 2 are subjective really. For group 1 you might consider SA or TA merits if you think you can use them often and timed well enough that you'll see the benefit, if not then flee merits will get you around a bit faster.

For group 2, Feint has had it's benefit dampened by abyssea, but is still a really neat tool to carry around and probably worth maxing for it's 2min recast. ***. charge will give you occasional big WS numbers but overall won't really add much to your damage, even at 5/5 a 5min forced triple attack isn't too significant. Aura steal deserves at least 1 point IMO for the added dispel utility you'll get, merit it more if you enjoy stealing buffs. Finally, ambush is only useful proportionally to how much time you spend behind mobs, and only adds accuracy which you might not need anyway.

There's no wrong way to merit, except for not maxing Triple Attack. That would be wrong.
#3 May 30 2011 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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You know, it's kinda of sad that the point of meriting Flee may actually be worthwhile considering how rarely I actually use SA/TA these days. Though this thread also reminds me for pure damage reasons I should spec to full Trick Attack merits since it's hard to get SA off when everyone has capped hate and the mob is spinning like a top.
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#4 May 30 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I went

Combat Skills
8/8 Dagger
8/8 Marksmanship
4/4 Evasion
4/4 Parrying
8/8 Archery (for paralyze arrows, can leave free for some other job combat skills)

Atributes
8/8 DEX
12/12 HP

Other
5/5 Critical Hit Rate
5/5 - Spell Interruption

Group 1
5/5 Triple Attack Rate
3/5 Sneak Attack recast
2/5 Trick Attack recast

Group 2
For a long time I had:
5/5 Feint
5/5 Assassin's Charge

But switched for a while to
1/5 Feint (due to not beoing really needed inside abyysea)
5/5 Assassin's Charge
4/5 Aurasteal

I have a slight hate on for Aurasteal though. I think it is a really cool idea with failed implimentation. Being bound to a five minute timer and tied to the success rate of (Item)Steal is a bit absurd for this ability. I'll be going back to 5/5 Feint and 5/5 Assassin's Charge when the character reactivation service comes back up.

I've done mine in attempts to maxmize DD potential and NM soloing capability. Merits are so easy to get, I'd suggest trying out which group 1 and 2 merits work best for you and switching them around as needed. The system is flexible that way. You aren't bound to them once you place them.

Edited, May 30th 2011 10:13am by Nebo1
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#5 May 30 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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I disagree with this "Feint now sucks" mentality. Ambush never activates when tanking and we often are, aura steal is often used for the annoying defensive buffs, not the attack buffs. (Big DEF bonuses like cocoon, ice spikes, etc) also no DD potential and it's "support side" is limited by a 5 minute timer. Assassin's charge is at least a nice chunk of WS dmg that's guaranteed, not situational.
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#6 May 30 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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As most suggest, 5 triple is a no brainer. For me:

Cat1
5/5 Triple atk
5/5 Trick attack (its more likely to land, and pushes up our 'hate control' abilities outside abyssea when your not auto capped hate -_-)

Cat2
I used to be 5/5 feint, 4/5 ambush, 1/5 Aura back at 75 when acc was king etc.

I finally reset after i got Rudra's Storm to:
4/5 feint
5/5 Assassin's charge
1/5 Aura Steal

I really like this setup. Aura steal (the absorb part) is unreliable, and I dont like unreliable things. 1/5 gets you the 100% dispel ability which is all i really want. Id rather have a (still usable) feint(5 min) and AC than 'maybe' stealing a buff, 'if' it gets the right one, 'if' you dont steal and item, and 'if' it decides to actually proc the absorb part.

For me, the absorb is a fun bonus occasionally (still have 20% absorb rate at lv 1), but the reason its there is for a 1 merit point wonder dispel. Not absorb.

It should be pretty plain why i removed my ambush merits for AC when I fell in love with Assassins Charge rudras xD
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Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#7 May 30 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you all so very much for the info and explanations. I need to get the merits now and start placing them. Thanks again for the most helpful info!

Belaal
#8 May 30 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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ElvaanTHF wrote:
I disagree with this "Feint now sucks" mentality.


I think Feint is just as good as it ever was. (Its REALLLY nice for landing Para Arrows on anything high level...do ppl still solo? Dual Boxing FTW) Certainly better than the alternatives. It's just less relevant inside abyssea. There are maybe a couple of unusually evasive NM's that can make use of it?

I hear these voidwatch NM's are pretty tough. Maybe they'll add more things feint will be useful against. Even still, if it doesn't benefit you specifically all the time, there are bound to be some noooooooobies in your group sometime benefit XD?

At any rate, I'll be putting my merits back into feint when (if?) the character reactivation service comes back online this week.


Edited, May 30th 2011 3:16pm by Nebo1
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#9 May 31 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Or just those jobs that are using D ranked weapons to proc on any of the last three abyssea zones.
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#10 May 31 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I disagree with this "Feint now sucks" mentality.

I think Feint is just as good as it ever was


I concur, feint is still just as powerful as ever (landing bolts/arrows is just one of many situations it's nice). And yes, several of the VNM's are pretty tough (some mess with your hitrate as well).

My merits are this

Combat Skills

8/8 dagger
8/8 Marksmanship
4/4 Evasion
4/4 Parrying

Stats
12/12 Max HP
8/8 Dexterity

Other
5/5 crit hit rate
5/5 enemy crit hit rate

Tier 1
5/5 Triple Attack rate
5/5 Sneak Attack recast

Tier 2
5/5 Assassin's Charge
5/5 Feint

I'm saving my other 8 combat skills in case I decide to focus on another melee job because I'm not worried about archery on my thief (plus I have feint and a strong r acc set). I originally had 5 crit and 5 enmity, but I decided the enmity was moot because inside abyssea if I want hate it's easy to get just through damage and/or accompolater (now enhanced by af3 hat), and its easy to hit the hate cap just by fighting a NM for a while. Similarly my ninjutsu skills are capped by my level 45 sub job so even if I merited jutsu akill and 5/5 recast i'd still be getting interrupted almost every time I got hit because the skill would just be too low lvl, so I chose 5 enemy crit rate. Just as I benefit from a 25% base crit rate cap it's nice to lower the enemies crit rate window from 20 to 15%.

Overall a pretty standard setup with a few personal variations. You can't go wrong with merits but dagger/triple attack rate/feint (at least one point should always be here) are essential if you want to maximize your thf performance.

Edited, May 31st 2011 10:09am by Melphina
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#11 May 31 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Im a little surprised you dumped 1 aura steal (thought you used to have it, might be wrong).

I havent gotten around to upping my stats to 8 yet. I had previously put in 5/5 str as I had Drg and thf (thf always needed more str at 75) as well as my rng and lolpld. Str just had to wide an impact across all my jobs and Drakes 50% str mod was to good to pass up.

But, now i have a twash and (very slowly) working on a gandiva for rng (60% dex mod), but I am really pushing for a Ryunhidge (drg mythic drakesbane spam 50% str mod).

I have no idea how do do my str/dex merits now. Im still at 5/5 str and putting off a decision till i finish brd merits. Maybe just settle for 4+4 str/dex? Iunno.
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Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#12 May 31 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm boycotting Aurasteal ><. I don't want to be the reason SE can look at the stats of people that put merits into and say "HEY guys, Thieves LOVE this thing, lets tie a bunch of other useless crap to the steal timer!"

I firggin' LOVE the idea of having a dispel/steal buff ability. The fact that it is on a 5 minute timer and tied to the success rate of Steal is completely absurd (not to mention won;t go off if your inventory is full).

/sadpanda :(

Edited, May 31st 2011 2:19pm by Nebo1
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#13 May 31 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I've always thought Aura Steal should have been it's own ability. Just makes more sense that way.
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#14 Jun 01 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:

I firggin' LOVE the idea of having a dispel/steal buff ability. The fact that it is on a 5 minute timer and tied to the success rate of Steal is completely absurd (not to mention won;t go off if your inventory is full).]


To my (and wiki's) knowledge, an item Steal will always occur instead of the dispel from Aura Steal if it succeeds, thus Aura Steal does not interfere with normal Steal use. The opposite is true actually, that normal Steal blocks Aura Steal when it occurs. So really you have nothing to lose to by unlocking it
#15 Jun 01 2011 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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TheBadShadow wrote:
Nebo1 wrote:

I firggin' LOVE the idea of having a dispel/steal buff ability. The fact that it is on a 5 minute timer and tied to the success rate of Steal is completely absurd (not to mention won;t go off if your inventory is full).]


To my (and wiki's) knowledge, an item Steal will always occur instead of the dispel from Aura Steal if it succeeds, thus Aura Steal does not interfere with normal Steal use. The opposite is true actually, that normal Steal blocks Aura Steal when it occurs. So really you have nothing to lose to by unlocking it


Yes we all know this. The fact that Steal negates Aurasteal, if item Steal is successful is absurd.

It's the same thing with Despoil. The fact that the ability to inflict a status ailment is both random and tied to the success rate of stealing an item is...also absurd

These three abilities should not be tied to the same 5 minute timer. Especially when even one 5 minute timer is way to long a recast for any one of them.

If I want to steal a buff, it shouldn't have anything to do with stealing some useless item. Same goes for inflicting despoil debuffs, it should not have anything to do with stealing items.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 1:26pm by Nebo1
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#16 Jun 01 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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I fully agree with the silly overlap of stealing. I think back to things like final fantasy tactics. If you want to steal gil (mug) you use the 'steal gil' ability. If you want to steal an item, you use 'steal item', if you want to steal heart (charm) you use 'steal heart'. If you want to charm, you dont use steal item and 'hope' it fails so that you can 'maybe' charm as an afterthought. Player choice and control of the ONE thing we have control over (our char) should be prioritized. How would you like a racing game that just once in a blue moon turned right when you turned left? Its stupid to place barriers between what the player is trying to do and the avatar is actually doing. Gampeplay and controls have been struggling for YEARS to make the interface between a persons thoughts and the avatars actions as seamless as possible. This is as backwards as replacing your plane ticket with a horse and buggy ticket.

The if>then method is terrible. All sharing the same 5 min timer (steal, dispel/absorb, despoil) on top of that is just a bad idea and not fun. Its frustrating.
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Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#17 Jun 07 2011 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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above = the best synopsis of THF's Steal I've read thus far.
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#18 Jun 07 2011 at 4:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I just got despoil.. and I must say I was fairly surprised when I learned you only inflict a debuff when you steal an item. (Unless my lack of sleep made me confused) Waste of an ability..

They need to get rid of despoil and give it's effect in entirety to mug, while making the debuff happen 100% of the time and lowering it's recast to 5 minutes. They also need to split up steal and aura steal into two different abilities. And then finally make them all have their own recast timers. Maybe link steal/mug.
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#19 Jun 07 2011 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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SE have been pretty good at fixing things that need fixing recently, I wouldn't be suprised if by the end of the year those JA's will be sorted out with hopefully a re-use time in the region of 1-3mins.
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#20 Jun 07 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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They've already given one update to Despoil though.... I am not optomisitic.
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#21 Jun 09 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Just tossing this specific note out there, if you want to farm dyna currency and use steal to get some extra, aura steal is the most annoying thing ever. With more than a few merits in it, you will never steal currency, but enjoy your protect. ><;

Due to that I changed to 1/5 aura steal because stealing annoying spikes can be handy in abyssea, 4/5 assassins charge, 5/5 feint which I still find useful for some tougher abyssea mobs. I tank to much/steal hate from tanks to often for ambush to be useful personally.
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#22 Jun 09 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Hemphogg wrote:
Just tossing this specific note out there, if you want to farm dyna currency and use steal to get some extra, aura steal is the most annoying thing ever. With more than a few merits in it, you will never steal currency, but enjoy your protect. ><;

Due to that I changed to 1/5 aura steal because stealing annoying spikes can be handy in abyssea, 4/5 assassins charge, 5/5 feint which I still find useful for some tougher abyssea mobs. I tank to much/steal hate from tanks to often for ambush to be useful personally.


That's just dumb luck and the fact that dyna currency from steal is rare as ****. Item steals ALWAYS go before buff steals. Which is the reason I hate bones so hardcore. Not only do they resist piercing, but I do sho love dem der bone chips, mhm.

That being said, 1/5 is the only real answer for aura steal anyway as more just increases the absorb rate, and on a five minute timer, that's laughable.
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#23 Jun 11 2011 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Day 2 back:

5/5 Feint
5/5 Assassin's CHarge

Aurasteal can suck it
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#24 Jun 11 2011 at 6:56 PM Rating: Default
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You're a fool. I get far more usage out of Aura Steal than assassin's charge. Far more, like, far far more, I hardly even use Assassin's charge.
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#25 Jun 11 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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The fact you would say that is off, to say the least. Even more so if you have any mage in your pt given most mages sub SCH.


A dispel that *may* take a buff every 5 minutes if it doesn't jack an item versus a 5 minute garaunteed triple attack. Or more likely, a 7:50 garaunteed triple attack while having the EXACT same dispelling capabilities as someone who 5/5'd aura steal.

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#26 Jun 11 2011 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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You must have a different experience than I have thus far in the game. I've been back two months and the only mages I've regularly grouped with are my friends dualbox whm/blm and my buddy (who is a main THF and posts in this thread!) as blm/whm. There's no dispel at all. And being able to quickly remove something like ice spikes is extremely nice, especially when you're dealing with an ice elemental of the abyssea variety.

You're greatly overstating the potency of *** charge. In Abyssea, given that you're using Apoc, you're already at a 25% TA rate, meaning that *** Charge only does something 75% of the time.
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