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#1 May 27 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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425 posts
Hey guys I've returned after a long time, its been about two years. I've been looking around at some of the gear available and daggers and stuff, but since theres some pretty hardcore theorists/mathematicians in here I figured I'd ask. What is currently the best standard for daggers? I'll take any info really, since I just registered Abbyssea today and I'd like to get things underway. I've also looked into the Empyrean dagger, is that any good? Also how is it that people are easily capping haste these days? Check my gear links below so you get an idea of the time period I'm from lol. Thanks again guys as always :)

Michi

edit: also is MistressMelphina still around here? :D

Edited, May 27th 2011 4:19pm by Michimeow
____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#2 May 27 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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492 posts
Twashtar is a good weapon and is the easiest to obtain out of the "big three" daggers. (Relic/Mythic/Empyrean)Otherwise STR kilas are amazing. Twilight/rapidus/triplus are also very good dagger options that are very easy to obtain.

The reason people are capping haste so easy is because of AF3 (Look up Raider's Attire +2 set on the wiki) and the easy to get haste+7 belts. (Twilight belt is a common Shinryu drop with blue !!! and so is bullwhip belt from Ovni)

Mistress Melphina is still around also.

The biggest question is do you have a friend or two with a good job spread? WHM, BLM, and THF is an amazing trio capable of alot of blue/yellow procs and quite a few red, look up "Stagger" on wiki for more information on "proccing"

A friend or two with the right jobs makes obtaining your gear remarkably less frustrating then the times of old. Now a smaller group will accomplish a singular goal slower than a large group, but it will be achievable. Unless of course you were the guy who had an entire LS farming for him from the getgo, then it'll be slower. lol

But for guys like me who got sick of the endgame drama, I can easily get a +2 piece in a few hours of playing with just my wife on WHM. Whereas before depending on how much the LS leaders needed, it could be 2 weeks before we even killed my mobs.
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THF on HNM attack in Binary. 10010110101
#3 May 27 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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425 posts
I just read SirEagleStrike's entire thread a few down so that answered most of my questions but I still have a few of my own. This new Twashtar dagger (besides being insanely hideous) does it have any other drawbacks? Does it perform the same outside of Abbyssea or is it an excellent weapon only in that zone? I've come back with the interest of being a casual player, but I'm hearing alot of "this is easy, but its time consuming". Which is no different than grinding away levels to 75 in the first place. On the upside alot more items are available to people who arent sporting huge shells.

The Raider's attire set +2 still only has 16% total haste, with the twilight belt its still only 23%. With the Sax dagger its 24 shy 1 of the cap. So how is it people can avoid using sax and still cap? I'm hugely uninformed of the current gear so bear with me lol. Also, the sax dagger seems like a great offhand, better than Sirocco kukri, has anyone actually run a parse with identical sets of gear except using lets say Twilight/Sax vs. Twilight/Triplus? I would imagine that dps would be better with the /sax

I do have quite a few friends who have multiple high level jobs so I'm sure forming parties to get somethings done wont be very difficult. I read up on the stagger and it seems like I have alot of stuff to learn lol. I'm sure I can learn that from friends and such. As far as getting on the road with THF is there any gear I should be focusing on getting soon? I'm still 75, what about sj? Is /nin still the best for dps now that thf has dual wield or is /war the way to go? So many questions and I'm still on the first day back to FFXI. Thanks for all the advice and help ahead of time :)

edit: after reading SES's thread I realize that there isnt so much of an emphasis on dps or trying to deal massive amounts of damage. So forgive me, I feel rather lost. Before, I always tried to play at the best of my ability. I got the some of the best gear that I could reach at that time. And THF was considered a trash DD, particularly because of all the christmas thfs running around (rogue's pants and scorpion harness). So alot of my emphasis of THF went to being the best that I could be to prove to others that THF was actually worth a damn. If all that past has been finally laid to rest, and theres not so much emphasis on being effective and what not... what is there to do besides just sit and grind for gear? I feel so lost lol. Thanks for any and all responses :)

Michi

Edited, May 28th 2011 2:11am by Michimeow
____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#4 May 28 2011 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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269 posts
Twashtar is excellent in and out of abyssea. You'll notice it has similar DMG/Delay to Mandau (+dex - attack -1 base DMG). The weaponskill is similar to Mercy Stroke (flat out better pre-90 mandau, then it's similar @ 100tp). If you want a good dagger, get a Twashtar. Though since you are planning to play more casual, I'd recommend picking up a Rapidus Sax (100% drop), and a Triplus dagger (NM is killed all the time, you might be able to bum one off a group farming empyreans).

You can wear 4/5 af3+2, twilight, and any pair of +3% haste boots to cap haste.

I don't know what's better between triplus/sax and twilight/sax, they're pretty similar.

If I was 75, like you, I'd just focus on reaching 90 first, then worry about gear. Farm the raiders+1/+2 set, get a twilight belt, Aias bonnet, loki's kaftan, atheling mantle, and appropriate atma, and your thf will be pretty set (+ other standard ws gear you might already have, like hecatomb, dex rings, gorget/Lovetorque etc, I'm trying to think of abyssea gear you wouldn't have as a newly returned player).

Quote:
after reading SES's thread I realize that there isnt so much of an emphasis on dps or trying to deal massive amounts of damage. So forgive me, I feel rather lost. Before, I always tried to play at the best of my ability. I got the some of the best gear that I could reach at that time. And THF was considered a trash DD,


Gearing yourself as well as you can still pays off, despite the lesser focus on all-out damage from days past. The only difference is that gear has much less of an impact than it used to, for now, as inside abyssea Atma enhancements dwarf most of the stats you get from gear. If the main endgame content leaves abyssea, gear will become more important again.

Quote:
what is there to do besides just sit and grind for gear


That is what endgame has always been: Grinding gear. Personally, I think it's much more enjoyable now, than it ever was.

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Wolfheart 80 THF, DRK, MNK but not bard. No, no I didn't level bard.
Phoenix server.
( ')> Shadow Duck approves of this message.
#5 May 28 2011 at 2:58 AM Rating: Good
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425 posts
Thanks for your reply Wolf it was super helpful in putting things into perspective. I'd rate you up if I could but I've never figured out how. As far as essential gear I pretty much have 99% of it already, you can check my linkies in the sig to get an idea. I've been reading up on Synergy but I'm still a tad confused by the idea of a joint crafting effort. Can someone explain Synergy to me in layman's terms and how it relates upgrading gear like salvage sets, and hecatomb? While I'm extremely disappointed that the cursed items I had sitting on me on my return are worth nothing now, I'm considering that I may use that to my advantage to get myself a full heca+1 set (since i have bc 100+3), but only if its upgradable somehow. How are the upgrades determined? Is there a list somewhere of available upgrades similar to the 3 bulls*** expansions that had the 3 items with 2 selectable buffs each from a list.

I'm definitely liking the Twilight knife for sure. If there was an equivalent to the damage output of the Blau/Sir combo scaled to today which two daggers would that be non relic. So would include kilas if necessary. I'm sure you guys have had this question come up before. Thanks again as always :)
____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#6 May 28 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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75 posts
you put it very well, synergy is a joint crafting effort. There are recipes that you will need both synery skill and another standard craft, and there are recipes where you will only need synergy. Synergy has it's very own recipe list though. You can't use it to craft, say, an item that required two high level crafts by partying with people that have these skills.

So augmenting heca gear is pretty much a synth with a determined ingredient. You only need synergy skill to craft it. Actually, in fact, you don't even need the skill. You can have a friend craft them for you. You put the heca piece you want to augment along with the required ingredient in the furnace, and your friend with synergy skill crafts it for you by controlling the furnace.

The augments are pretty much random, but with some patterns. If you HQ the synth you will always see the same stat in the augment. For example, HQing heca head synth will add DA to it, HQing heca feet will add STR, and so on. And there are other randomly selected stats like attack, and up to three stats can be added if you are lucky (HQ3).

You can also synth a gear any number of times you choose, so long as you have the ingredients. And if you get a okish augment, you can still keep trying to make it better. There is an option to keep the old augments if the new ones doesn't satisfy you.

Finally, about the necessary ingredients. It's all about going back to sky lol. To synth heca gear you need new neptunal abjurations. An abj can be synthed with synergy into the necessary ingredients, so neptunal abjuration can be made into neptunal tatters, and if you are lucky you might even get 12 of them out of your abjuration. That's 12 tries to augment your heca gear.

With 12 tatters i was able to get my heca head with DA+2 attack +7, and my heca feet with STR+3 attack+5 (and lol wind resist+4)~

Edited, May 28th 2011 4:16pm by Laphine
#7 May 29 2011 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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425 posts
Thanks for going into more detail about it. For now since I'm still 75ish I'm gonna focus on getting all the Abbyssea stuff setup. Once I'm more acclimated with the recent changes and I'm 90 I'll start looking into the synergy stuff, since until then I really have no way to re-obtain n. abjurations.
____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#8 May 29 2011 at 2:37 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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6,580 posts
Wolfhart wrote:
I don't know what's better between triplus/sax and twilight/sax, they're pretty similar.
Twilight/Triplus (unless not capped acc).

Also Auric Dagger is also worthwhile. It's DPS is still very good after the DW bonus, and you can cap subtle blow with Auric, Rajas, /Nin and a Whm with AF3+2 feet's auspice. Situationally very useful.
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[HTID]
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
#9 May 29 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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3,775 posts
Quote:
Twilight/Triplus (unless not capped acc).


I wouldn't say this is the best combo for sure. I personally dislike the Twilight because the tp drain hardly ever activates and with all the multi attacking we have going on it's difficult to say whether or not it's even saving you a round to weaponskill. The HP drain is ok but if you have good atmas you'll be putting out ridiculous damage and the en-drain effect is dwarfed to almost nothing. Going by the current understandings Twilight's 3% procs before tri attack so it's hard to say how that fits into everything. It's a good dagger but it's not necessarily the ultimate. I use a fire Kila +2/triplus knife combination myself. The fire Kila +2 has the highest DoT rating of any non empyrean weapon, and the extra 9 strength/24.5 attack is a lot. That said, I'm curious to know more about the oneiros knife. According to BG wiki Oneiros Knife comes from a Neo-Dynamia-Jeuno NM.

Oneiros knife intrigues me. It has no other distinguishing characteristics besides the 6 agi and the critical hit damage and it's DoT is slightly lower than Rapidus, but it's a high level weapon added last update. If that critical hit damage increase is 10% like x's knife I would say this is a very strong contender for the offhand slot. I'm curious to know what the crit damage ++ amount actually is, but I don't know of anyone who has one nor have I been able to find any testing data on it so for now the jury is out. I have a hunch we may be surprised by it though.

Edited, May 29th 2011 10:09am by Melphina
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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#10 May 29 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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425 posts
Hi Melphina!!1!1!!1!! :D
I'm glad you mentioned the Kila+2 because I'm not against going out and doing those trials. Though I'm surprised to hear you using it because I was almost 100% sure you had a mandau. Then again I've been gone 2 years. I can pretty much take your word for your dagger combo because I'm familiar with your devotion to accurate and thorough testing. So thats what I'll probably be aiming for. I'm planning to be somewhat of a casual player, so I dont know if I want to go for Twash, but I suppose I'll ask. How much more work is the twash comepared to the Kila+2? Thank you for your input on this! I'm glad to see this forum is still alive with alot of the old people. (And I still remember Archain :P)

edit: For the weapon trials that list kill: x amount of birds/aquans/etc. Do the monsters need to be a certain level or can you just go to valkurm dunes and one shot a ton of low level mobs?

edit 2: I've been hearing about TH11 and all sorts of crazy stuff. Can someone indulge me with the new TH information? When I left TH4 was the highest, which I have, and all you had to do was touch the monster to be on the hate list to activate it.


Edited, May 29th 2011 2:55pm by Michimeow
____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#11 May 29 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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3,775 posts
I never finished my Mandau and gave up on it once abyssea and the empyrean weapons came out. Consequently Twashter is better than Mandau at the current stage of the game so I'm not too upset. That's the weapon I'm working at but at a more leisurely pace than banalaty who finished his in a month or two timeframe. I'm sitting at 34 glav and 34 itza and I'll probably finish it to level 85 within another month or so.

Quote:
How much more work is the twash comepared to the Kila+2?


A lot!! In order to hit level 85 twashter you have to do all the basic weapon trials and then the VNM's, 2 of which are monks, which takes you to the kartika phase. From there you need 50 glavoid shells to hit level 80, and then 50 itzaprotyl scales to hit level 85. Getting together Glavoid pop sets isn't hard but it's time consuming and if you choose to go the NM rout Adze and Minhaco are heavily camped . While the pop sets for the manticore and cockatrice can be bought off auction it'll cost you about 150k for both. Gold box farming is extremely random with 10 possible key items per KI box, 4 each for glavoid and chloris and 2 more for lacuvie so it's impossible to target one specific drop. No matter what you're spending time/money/resources. Since Rudra's Storm + aftermath is the goal you'll be spending a lot of time in atthwa farming gold boxes or trying to claim Tunga who is still an annoying ^%$#@ to proc red on because he spams so much magic and a lot of it is break-ga. The final tidbit is that each kill of glavoid/itza will reward you with 1 drop 100% of the time and a chance at a second drop. It appears that empyrean upgrade items are in their own class and weakness triggers have no effect on their drop rate so treasure hunter is the only way to boost your chances of 2 drops per kill. None of this is too difficult at level 90 with some competent friends, but it's a large time sink and if you try to zerg through it you risk some heavy burnout.

Elemental Kila +2 is fairly straightforward however and if you can get weather credit kills you can blow through them from your peeler to the finished kila +2 in roughly 6-10 hours. If you can get some friends to help you out you can cut that time down even more. I highly recommend trying to find weather appropriate mobs because you'll be getting 5 points per kill instead of one if weather is up, and it saves a lot of hassle if you're patient and can wait out appropriate game days.

I don't know how they figured it out but the in game weather forecast patterns have been mapped out by a group of individuals and posted here. That link is a comprehensive listing of the next three game day weather forecasts in every zone available. I don't know if it works like ffxiah.com and mines the info hourly or if they cracked the algorithm itself, but that chart is a huge help when doing weather trials.

Quote:
edit: For the weapon trials that list kill: x amount of birds/aquans/etc. Do the monsters need to be a certain level or can you just go to valkurm dunes and one shot a ton of low level mobs?


The mobs must yield experience (easy prey or higher). Mobs inside abyssea DO count so if you can't find a suitable weather alternative there is always the option of waiting for appropriate game day and zerging an abyssea camp with your atmas to assist ya, but this is a lot more work because you only get 1 point per kill instead of 5 (or 6 if you're lucky enough to get both weather AND matching elemental game day outside abyssea).

Quote:
edit 2: I've been hearing about TH11 and all sorts of crazy stuff. Can someone indulge me with the new TH information? When I left TH4 was the highest, which I have, and all you had to do was touch the monster to be on the hate list to activate it.


Basically when you hit a mob you have a chance of increasing its level of treasure hunter just by meleeing it. This ability is specific to thief main ONLY, and it has a much higher chance of proccing when you use sneak or trick attack. When you melee you will occasionally get a message in your chat log indicative of the increase, and it happens much more when you land a sa or ta successfully. As for TH items our raider's poulaines +2 have TH +1 on them and at level 90 we got treasure hunter III base, so with TK + AA + AF3+2 feet we have base level TH 6 and our first proc will be TH7. The only way to reset treasure hunter is if the mob goes idle and regenerates a tic so getting KO'd in battle or mob going white but not losing aggro has no consequence at all. Treasure hunter is applied by any action you take on a mob (even shooting a bolt and missing) and AoEing a group of mobs with aeolian edge will silmultaneously apply TH to all mobs at once. The highest level of treasure hunter will overwrite any lower levels so treasure hunter gear only needs to be equipped for the FIRST hit and can be removed thereafter with no concequence, so when you're fighting NMs you only need your TK in offhand for the first strike. After that feel free to swap to a useful dagger combo and just use the TK offhand for the first hit of the next NM you pull and rinse/repeat.

I gave a full breakdown by example of TH proccing in great detail in this post Here

Edited, May 29th 2011 3:55pm by Melphina
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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#12 May 29 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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425 posts
I must admit I like the look of the Mandau better, even the idea of a single hit that becomes guaranteed to land because of SA, and assassin's TA. The triple damage is/was icing on the cake. I'm still not used to the idea that accuracy isn't an issue, and all the crazy stat boosting items available in Abbyssea totally blow my mind. Particularly that Primeval Brew.

Thanks for putting things into perspective, I'll definitely be going for the Kilas+2 for now as I wont have that kind of disposable time for very long so I don't want to be stuck halfway when my time runs out. I'm patient enough to wait for the proper game day/weather to hit the mobs. I don't generally like the idea of wasting time lol. Since I want to cover all my bases before I get things up and running, as far as the trials are concerned does it tell you what number of mobs you've killed/need to kill? Or do you have to keep track of that yourself kind of how the unlocking dark knight quest is (or used to be.. not sure)?

And boy I'm I glad that TH is cleared up. When I left TH was still a mystery as to how it worked, and I heard all sorts of stupid things like THF must get kill shot, or even that a Ranger using Eagle eye shot to finish a mob added some level of treasure hunter. Your explanation on your linky post was excellent I grasp what your saying on there. One thing though you mention is this proccing. I beat stuff up yesterday on my thief for hours and didn't see any sort of proccing. So how do you know when you proc a higher level of TH? I registered Abbyssea 2 days ago, and have barely had any time there so I'm guessing this proccing thing only works there?

Lastly a bit of an off topic question, but rather been a gripe of mine. Since I returned, I've noticed that alot of stuff that was very expensive back then is now dirt cheap and I dont feel too good about it because on my when I returned I had.. 4 khroma ores, 6 imp. wootz ingots, 4 cursed items that I sadly didn't -1 lol. Khroma ores were around 400k, so thats 1.6m, I bought each ingot for 1.3M, so thats 7.8M, and the cursed caps and leggings I was making were selling always for 500k or more, so thats another 2M. So all together I've lost over 10M gil on items that are now worth less than 200k combined. And this isnt even including weapons or armor that are now CLEARLY outdated/outmatched by easier to obtain gear (blau dolch Q_Q). Makes me a very sad kitty. And its not that I'm broke or anything but rather I regret not having sold all that stuff before I left. How do you feel about the current economy? Thoughts on that really. Thanks as always for your kind and loving support :)

____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#13 May 29 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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3,775 posts
Rudra's Storm is just as strong as Mercy Stroke. Both of them are one hit wonders focusing the brunt of their might into the first hit critical. With the level 90 Mandau tp boost you have

Mercy Stroke
60% strength Mod

100% TP-----200% tp-----300% tp
3.75 -------3.75-------3.75

Rudra's Storm
60% dexterity Mod

100% TP-----200% tp-----300% tp
3.25 -------4.25-------5.25


Since it runs off dexterity mod instead of strength mod it plays upon gear choices we're likely to be using anyway, and it has an increasing tp mod. At 100% tp Mercy Stroke is a little stronger than Rudra's but a 300% tp Rudra's is a lot better than Mercy stroke. The real difference between the two weapons is the aftermath though, whereas Mandau increases critical hit rate twashter "occasionally deals double damage", and it's a ridiculous increase to our DoT. Mandau, Vajra, and Twashter are all awesome weapons and tear up the field, but at the current phase of the game Twashter is in the lead. I've heard that s-e intends to boost mythic and relic again in a future update (it was mentioned on their official forms) to close the gap towards empyrean, but as far as I know they haven't released any specific details on how they intend to do that yet.

Quote:
economy


Old gear is outdated by auction alternatives and artifact 3 +2 as well as abyssea gear. A few pieces are still a pain to get (loki's kaftan) but most of them aren't too bad and upgrading is pretty cheap. So while you don't have the gil you used to, you won't have to pay much to get caught up either.

Edited, May 29th 2011 5:10pm by Melphina
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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#14 May 29 2011 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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425 posts
I see. Thats a good point I guess. Let me ask as far as the trials are concerned does the trial tell you how far along you are like "You've killed 24/50 Aquans" or is it something you have to keep count yourself? Also some of the trial list "Monster: 100", does that mean you have to get the kill shot on that specific kind of monster? Or can you be in a group of people that is killing those monsters and it doesn't matter who kills it? One last question, does anyone know if the you can continue to do the trial while level synced? So if you level sync down to someone thats like level 15?

Also just to be clear on the day/weather thing, if its wants Fire day/weather does that mean that either firesday or weather will give it 5 points per kill? And both = 6? Thanks again :)
____________________________
Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#15 May 29 2011 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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3,775 posts
Quote:
I see. Thats a good point I guess. Let me ask as far as the trials are concerned does the trial tell you how far along you are like "You've killed 24/50 Aquans" or is it something you have to keep count yourself?


Yes. After every qualifying kill you will receive a message that tells you how many kills are left in that trial. You can also buy a pair of magians spectacles from the moogle and look up your progress as well as the weather forecast in the field.

Edited, May 29th 2011 11:08pm by Melphina
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#16 May 30 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Good
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Michimeow wrote:
I see. Thats a good point I guess. Let me ask as far as the trials are concerned does the trial tell you how far along you are like "You've killed 24/50 Aquans" or is it something you have to keep count yourself? Also some of the trial list "Monster: 100", does that mean you have to get the kill shot on that specific kind of monster? Or can you be in a group of people that is killing those monsters and it doesn't matter who kills it? One last question, does anyone know if the you can continue to do the trial while level synced? So if you level sync down to someone thats like level 15?

Also just to be clear on the day/weather thing, if its wants Fire day/weather does that mean that either firesday or weather will give it 5 points per kill? And both = 6? Thanks again :)


You don't have to get the kill shot in a group, just be within range for xp to get credit for the kill. And yes, you can also get credit while level synced as long as all the other conditions are met (day/weather/mob/etc)

As for points the breakdown is:

Day = 1 point

Weather = 5 points

Day + Weather = 6 points

Double weather = 6 points

Double weather + day = 7 points

If you need a semi-decent guide on elemental daggers just hit the link in my sig.
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#17 May 30 2011 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you guys! Thanks to you and some of my friends I've started the trials even though I'm only level 76 lol. Thank you Kalisa for that linky, and Melphina for the weather thing, its been SUPER helpful. Because of that I knocked down 2 trials in like 15 mins. <3 you guys
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Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#18 May 30 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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Welcome back stranger ^^

I dont have much to add but pretty much agree with just about everything in this thread. I hated the way Twash looked when i got it, but it is ever so slowly growing on me. It actually kinda goes with Aias bonnet and Loki's Kaftan sicne they are all really friggin loud xD So at least my WS set goes together :P Its also just a huge dagger so you gotta kinda sit up and take notice ^_^ And who doesnt like forcing a tornado out of a dagger like your the storm god himself!

The real reason i like Twash is the WS is a dex mod. With the new AF+2 hands (increases dex on SA by 20% like AF+1 does 15% agi on TA) Mithra are finally, no contest, the best Thfs around :P Back in the old days of DE spam and Mandau, Elvs always annoyed me they did so well with their WAY higher str/chr for DE and Mercy's. Finally Mithra can claim their rightful place! (Same reason Im doing Gandiva for the 60% dex, 3xhit WS for Rng :P)

Of course I cant say to much since I just started (yesterday officially) working on a mythic lance for drg....so there goes the 'best race' theory for my stuff :P

Edited, May 30th 2011 11:18am by Banalaty
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#19 May 30 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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Since we're talking about ToTM daggers I have a question to ask. I'd like to know if anybody has experience with the fusetto +2, specifically the TP Bonus + 100 version. I'd like confirmation that you get the 100% TP bonus if you offhand it. Unlike martial knife which must be mainhanded the fusetto +2 makes a killer offhand weaponskill companion and has some pretty good DoT to it as well (D 38/delay 186 isn't bad at all). Since the store tp and weaponskill damage + 10% work in the offhand it's probably a given (and since it's tagged as rare I can only assume all versions work alike since you can only have one). This could even affect my atma choices because without twashter I like the GH/RR/SS combo but if I had a 100% tp bonus to evisceration's crit rate I'd probably choose RR/SS/AoA again since my weaponskill damage should be similar to the GH combo but with AoA I'd get more of them.

With that said, I may just start a Fusetto +2 this week myself. I think Twashter/Fusetto +2 (tp bonus + 100%) is my new dream dagger combo with RR/SS/AoA atmas. Whether stacked rudra's or solo evisceration it's wicked potent.

Edited, May 30th 2011 1:24pm by Melphina
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#20 May 30 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Melphina wrote:
Since we're talking about ToTM daggers I have a question to ask. I'd like to know if anybody has experience with the fusetto +2, specifically the TP Bonus + 100 version. I'd like confirmation that you get the 100% TP bonus if you offhand it. Unlike martial knife which must be mainhanded the fusetto +2 makes a killer offhand weaponskill companion and has some pretty good DoT to it as well (D 38/delay 186 isn't bad at all). Since the store tp and weaponskill damage + 10% work in the offhand it's probably a given (and since it's tagged as rare I can only assume all versions work alike since you can only have one). This could even affect my atma choices because without twashter I like the GH/RR/SS combo but if I had a 100% tp bonus to evisceration's crit rate I'd probably choose RR/SS/AoA again since my weaponskill damage should be similar to the GH combo but with AoA I'd get more of them.

With that said, I may just start a Fusetto +2 this week myself. I think Twashter/Fusetto +2 (tp bonus + 100%) is my new dream dagger combo with RR/SS/AoA atmas. Whether stacked rudra's or solo evisceration it's wicked potent.

Edited, May 30th 2011 1:24pm by Melphina


I have been wondering this as well. I've heard many reports that it does work. I was more interested in AE farming with Martial/Fussetto. But very interested in hearing from anyone with experience in this regard.

Edited, May 30th 2011 4:14pm by Nebo1
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#21 May 30 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Based on a quick look in my spreadsheet, if Oneiros is +5% crit damage it basically ties with Triplus. +10% would obviously be a bit better. I left it in the spreadsheet as 5% to be conservative.

Also went through and added TP Bonus in as a factor for weaponskills on thf (had only put it in 2h job spreadsheets before), and added the TP Bonus Fusetto (assuming it works in offhand, as rumored) and a TP Bonus Moonshade (with 4 att as the other augment).

Plugging in weapons to make sure it works, it looks like Twashtar/Fusetto is slightly ahead of Twashtar/Oneiros which is barely ahead of Twashtar/Triplus. Usual caveats that that's not an exhaustive configuration check.

#22 May 30 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Since the store tp and weaponskill damage + 10% work in the offhand it's probably a given (and since it's tagged as rare I can only assume all versions work alike since you can only have one)


I was under the impression none of these worked in the offhand. If they do then I have been ignoring some very potentially good combos O.o

Is there a thread/data posted anywhere about these? Id love some confirmation on the offhand stuff. That and martial/fussetto would be wicked for aeolian edge farm.

This actually just occured to me. If you have TP bonus +100 (assuming it works in offhand) and I rudra's at 100TP, do I get lv 1 aftermath (100tp) or lv 2 aftermath (200tp)??

If that actually works.....holy sh*t....

Toss in a moonshade earring and I could get a lv 3 aftermath at 175 tp and the 300tp FTP on rudras. Not to mention if/when i finish my mythic lance for more aftermath finagling.

PLEASE work this way!
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99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

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Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#23 May 30 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I was under the impression none of these worked in the offhand. If they do then I have been ignoring some very potentially good combos O.o

Is there a thread/data posted anywhere about these? Id love some confirmation on the offhand stuff. That and martial/fussetto would be wicked for aeolian edge farm.


Fusetto is Rare so you can only have one of any line (it also implies all fusettos work the same way), and it would be completely effed up if the store tp + 15 version only worked in the mainhand. Likewise I'm almost certain I read the weaponskill version works in the offhand shortly after abyssea was released but i could never find that post again. By that logic the TP bonus fusetto should too. I don't know anyone who has one though so I have no way to verify, hence why I ask.

Edited, May 30th 2011 3:58pm by Melphina
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#24 May 30 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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according to this thread TP bonus fusetto works in offhand but WS one does not.
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#25 May 30 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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Kinematics wrote:
Plugging in weapons to make sure it works, it looks like Twashtar/Fusetto is slightly ahead of Twashtar/Oneiros which is barely ahead of Twashtar/Triplus. Usual caveats that that's not an exhaustive configuration check.

Interesting, when i first read words about tp fusetto working on off-hand i tried to simulate it in the spread sheet. Basically, i just set rudras tp at 100 to 4.25 and at 200 to 5.35. I think it still lose to triplus with that. I guess i can't really model tp bonus+100 like that?


Banalty wrote:
This actually just occured to me. If you have TP bonus +100 (assuming it works in offhand) and I rudra's at 100TP, do I get lv 1 aftermath (100tp) or lv 2 aftermath (200tp)??

I've read somewhere that the aftermath is based on our real tp. Real shame :\
#26 May 30 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
according to this thread TP bonus fusetto works in offhand but WS one does not.


That thread states with certainty that the stp bonus fusetto works in the offhand and that the tp bonus fusetto works offhand as well. I trust this information because it's easy to tell whether your aeolian edges are firing at 100% versus 200% (significant difference), however the thread doesn't give any source as to the weaponskill bonus fusetto NOT working in the offhand other than "supposidly" IE secondhand information. Since 10% weaponskill damage is so hard to measure unless you have a vast sample size (my solo evisceration lows can be 2-2.5k and highs can hit 4.5k++) I'm not sure I believe the weaponskill damage doesnt work offhand. With that said however the weaponskill damage + 10% is clearly the weakest fusetto rout to go so this is completely moot. This has significant implications on our offhand choice because of my earlier mentioned thoughts on Evisceration atma choices and Rudra's Storm. And of course THIS!!!

thread wrote
Quote:
holy witch tits!? i can do martial/fusetto and ws as if it's 300 tp? someone tell me if that is right or wrong =o?!


Best quote ever, but joking aside .... 100% TP Aeolian Edges doing 300% TP damage!! This point in the thread is unclear so it's not confirmed yet, but god DAMN if that isnt enticing. &*^%$# magic attack kilas. Martial knife/tp bonus fusetto would blow it out of the fuggin water!! This merits testing. I'm going to start one of these PRONTO.

Edited, May 30th 2011 5:49pm by Melphina
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#27 May 30 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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If you look at the big picture of combining atmas and abyssites and key items I'd say the most powerful combo we could get (provided the offhand bonus is confirmed) is this

Quote:
Twashter/Fusetto +2 (tp bonus + 100) with Apocalypse/Razed/Sanguine


The level of synergy between that is godly. You have apoc's triple attack/set bonus/tp gain maxed, STRONG DoT, and a weaponskill where everything works together in perfect harmony. AoA/RR/SS are ALL significant increases to rudras damage, and when you combine a 100% TP mod you're looking at an average sa/ta rudra's ws damage of 7-8k+ on a majority of standard attack ratio mobs (no joke, its that wicked). In most cases you have to sacrifice something to get something, but this combination sacrifices almost nothing to maximize your all around performance. The only REAL sacrifice you make is the DoT rating of the fusetto +2 versus other choices, but ya know what? Fusetto +2 actually has a pretty astounding DoT rating. Damage 38/delay 186 is a 12.258 base damage DPS rating and while this ignores fstr and haste and etc, it's a GOOD rating. This is officially my new dream combo, and the thought of it just makes me drool.

Edited, May 30th 2011 6:38pm by Melphina
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#28 May 30 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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I actually went searching and found that very thread after i posted. I have just completed the 1st shadowstitch trial for TP bonus fusetto xD I am sooooo excited to try this with my twash!

I am also exceptionally happy that i dont have to pick and choose my atmas after this. Before i had to choose between Evis or rudras atmas with GH vs another atma (either apoc or SS) that favored rudras/dps more. Now i can just drop GH when im DDing because i will still have an excellent (~80%+) crit rate on evis without using an atma that has NO effect on rudras. I can have my cake and eat it too for both WS after this!

This will also (oddly enough) be a HUGE boost to my toy job, lolBattleBrd by making rudras very very competative vs Evis outside of abyssea (inside the crit stuff is just broken with no SA for rudra).

The lack of aftermath effect is sad, but i am still greatly looking forward to this. Just kicking myself i never did this earlier.
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#29 May 30 2011 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
This will also (oddly enough) be a HUGE boost to my toy job, lolBattleBrd by making rudras very very competative vs Evis outside of abyssea (inside the crit stuff is just broken with no SA for rudra).


I find this funny because I decided long ago to level bard as my second job but never got around to it. I always planned to make it a battle bard though, with my blau dolch and my hecatomb for ws. :3
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#30 May 31 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
This will also (oddly enough) be a HUGE boost to my toy job, lolBattleBrd by making rudras very very competative vs Evis outside of abyssea (inside the crit stuff is just broken with no SA for rudra).


I find this funny because I decided long ago to level bard as my second job but never got around to it. I always planned to make it a battle bard though, with my blau dolch and my hecatomb for ws. :3


Yeah I was going to make one of these too....then I quit <.<. lol But BRD got a CRAP ton of some of the best DD gear. Well they did at 75 anyway.
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#31 May 31 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Heh. I have always been intrigued by the idea of battlebrd. At 75 it never had any shortage of haste gear, got Evis, can gear like a war (dusk, heca, kitty pants) has exccellent dagger selections (blau, magians, twash/mandau etc), and permanently has 2 songs of YOUR choice xD. Not to mention a few gems like the relic body (8dex, 8str, 8agi, 8vit, 18atk).

I just never leveled it at 75 because i was terrified of brd4life considering my only other jobs were Thf and Drg (later pld and rng, but i havent done much wiht either lately).

But since i got a twash and leveling is a joke (went 30>84 in 1 day on brd lulz. 84>90 the next) i figured, why the hell not. But i have been struggling for a good offhand. I have just been using my OAT dagger which is nice, but just doesnt feel quit right. I tried brd/war for the fencer trait and every hit being aftermath and zerk. I was quite disabointed in the brd/war escapade. TP was REALLY slow after years of thf/nin (also because wearing 2x dusk SUUUUCKS). I have since got the zelus tiara so i can take 1 piece of dusk off at least. Now i can go back to /nin and do 200TP rudra spam and keep aftermath up and have it rival evis, while keeping DW up and running.

Anyway, tangent aside, I am now on the 3rd trial for tp bonus dagger (300 cyclones on bsts ><). I might finish the whole thing by next week if things go decent.
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#32 May 31 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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I imagine it should be very easy to do these trials inside abyssea. Something like AO/Apoc and a atma with stp and our tp gain will be thru the roof. And with no crits, we can use more WSs due the lower dps. With mage partner it should be even more fun, pulling a bunch of mandies, and ws instantainly after one of their melee rounds.
#33 May 31 2011 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I imagine it should be very easy to do these trials inside abyssea. Something like AO/Apoc and a atma with stp and our tp gain will be thru the roof.


I'm using Plaguebringer, Persistent Predator, and AoA. It has a combined 40 sTP, 15% triple attack, and 10 hp/tic regen. Works for me.

Edited, May 31st 2011 10:00pm by Melphina
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#34 Jun 04 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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So I've decided to follow the path of the righteous and get myself a Twash. I started 2 days ago and I'm just now finishing the the last VNM. I'm very curious to hear the outcome of the Fusetto +2 offhand deal.
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Michimeow - Sylph
Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#35 Jun 04 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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hmm, this combo does sound delicious. Especially with being able to use AoA, RR, and the new uncapped crit damage from SS to full effect, and maintaining a high crit rate on evisceration. Just lol-eyballing, it sounds like a significant boost over a standard RR, GH, SS setup, particularly with Twashtar, but how is the improvement for the... Twashless thieves.
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#36 Jun 04 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfhart wrote:
hmm, this combo does sound delicious. [...] but how is the improvement for the... Twashless thieves.

If you don't use Twashtar you can still benefit from Fusetto+2 (tp bonus). Since every end-game ws we use benefits from extra tp. Rudra's Storm just benefits a lot more. Going from 3.25 ftp to 4.25 ftp sounds a lot more sexy then going from 2.0 ftp to 2.125 ftp for Mandalic Stab. Or 1.00 ftp to 1.00 ftp for Evisceration. The Evisceration description: "Chance of critical hit varies with TP" sounds very vague. I suggest to just test it yourself. Use an off-hand dagger without any bonus to ws. I assume you dont have the Fusetto+2 (tp bonus) yet. WS 10 mobs with 100tp then ws 10 mobs with 200tp. There should be a big difference in damage.

If you are testing a 1 hit ws level 1 mobs should work well for this. For Evisceration I suggest to test on high level mobs but outside abyssea. This to prevent interference from atma.



Edited, Jun 4th 2011 11:34pm by Breaze
#37 Jun 08 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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So have we gotten anywhere with proving that it works in the offhand? A simple test could probably be done using energy drain or something. Or is everyone still trying to weapon skill enough times to get it, lol.
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#38 Jun 08 2011 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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I am still making mine and on the 4th trial, 500 evis on plantoids. This puts me ay about halfway done. If no one else gets to it before I do, I will verify it works. It just may be another week before I get the dagger done unless I get a big block of time this weekend. I'll keep you guys informed.
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99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
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